Electric bill

[BarneyD]

When I was a young lad, also in the 1950's, my father announced that he was going to finish our basement to make a rec room. Our house also had Lally columns. He wrapped these with wire lath, and began applying many many layers of cement to which he had added some kind of dye or pigment. He sculpted the cement so that the Lally columns looked like the bark on the trunk of an elm tree. I thought it looked pretty cool. When he finished the job my parents invited the neighbors over for a celebratory party. He had started the job when I was in first grade and he finished when I graduated from college. The neighbors were commenting on how nice it looked. My mother jokingly said "And it only took him 20 years to finish". My father replied "Yep, finished on time and under budget".

Cheers.

 

[Holzhacker]

Just FYI for those who might deal with Lally / Lolly columns.
Had to replace a bunch of mid span posts and beam (lolly columns) on a job last year. Muni wanted an SE report for the footers. SE report specified 2'x2'x1' deep concrete pads on undisturbed soil as footers for the posts. SE said the 2x2x1 is the standard specification these days for small residential.

 

[Packard]

Just FYI for those who might deal with Lally / Lolly columns.
Had to replace a bunch of mid span posts and beam (lolly columns) on a job last year. Muni wanted an SE report for the footers. SE report specified 2'x2'x1' deep concrete pads on undisturbed soil as footers for the posts. SE said the 2x2x1 is the standard specification these days for small residential.

They used the lally columns for my deck too.  I replaced a couple of them.  They rusted out at the bottom.  Very heavy.  To cut them down, I ground through the 0.030”?? Thick steel and hit it with a short handled sledge.  They broke easily.  I estimated that they were 30 - 40 pounds each.  I cut them in 3’ lengths—so about 120 pounds per column. 

 

[Packard]

Back on topic. I called Central Hudson Yesterday and after being on hold for 20 minutes, they transferred me to the meter reading department.  I hung up after I reached my self-imposed “1-hour-on-hold-emotional-limitation”.

I called again today.  The same 20 minutes to speak with a representative, but a promised 30 minute wait time to speak with a meter reading agent. 

That “30 minute wait time” morphed into one hour and fifty-three minutes.

She (Melanie, the agent at the meter reading department) asked me to read aloud the meter reading, but I out-smarted her.  I took a photo of the meter before I placed the call.  It carried no manufacture date, but it was likely installed when the house was built and when Harry was still President.

The agent (Melanie) said, “Easy to see where the error crept in.”  Apparently the meter reader misread one of the dials.

Wouldn’t it make sense to have a meter installed that sent data back to the main office?  That’s what the water company does.

At any rate, Melanie said that she was going to void that invoice.  I should receive a corrected invoice shortly.  She did not know if management would accept the photo for billing purposes or if they would have to send another meter reader to my house. 

I probably should have included the metadata along with the photo.  It would verify the time, date and exact location.  But I’m OK with them sending someone to verify the photo.

In any case, the corrected bill should be around $110.00 to $115.00 (very close to what I paid last year at this time for the 2-month billing cycle).

 

[cpw]

ConEd in Westchester uses smart meters now.  Not only do the avoid meter readers they can tell when your service is interrupted because of lack of communication or remotely turn it on/off.

 

[smorgasbord]

She did not know if management would accept the photo for billing purposes or if they would have to send another meter reader to my house.

That's crazy - should be easy to trust you for another month.

The house I grew up in had the meters in the basement, so the meter reader would have to enter the house to read the meter. Con-Ed at the time (this is literally half a century ago) just asked us to post a card that had manual dials to mimick the reading in a window, and they would read that every month. Once a year they'd actually send a meter reader out to read the dials, and then catch-up on any mistakes we might have made.

 

[Packard]

In the 1970s I was living in an 8 unit apartment building.  At one time it was a “medical-Professional” building, but by the time I was renting it was a 7 unit apartment/ 1 unit doctor’s office.

I was a traveling salesman and was home two weekends a month, but I was getting huge electric bills.

Tenants had access to the meters, and I turned off every appliance (including the refrigerator).  But my “assigned” meter was spinning like crazy.  The doctor’s office showed no electricity use at all.  Clearly our meters had been switched at birth.

I tried to explain this on the phone to no avail.  So I told them to turn off my service and not to restore it without my written permission.

Well the doctor raised hell. I was out of town. They violated my written orders not to restore my electricity, but not until the doctor had a lawyer contact Con-Ed.

The Lawyer contacted me too.  But since when I approached the doctor to contact Con-Ed he told me that it was my problem and my problem to solve.

Finally, Con-Ed assigned the correct meter to me, but they only wanted to credit my account which would have taken several years to recoup.  They finally cut me a check.

 

[Packard]

Final resolution:

They accepted my photo as a meter reading. 

The old bill of $504.24 has been voided.

I received a corrected invoice for $91.89 has been received by email.  I will pay this when I next sit down to pay my bills. 

I was happy with the results, but they made me work for them.  My total on-hold time on the phone was 3:53 minutes (I always clock my on-hold times), which seems excessive.

But a satisfactory resolution that required no compromise by either party. 

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Final resolution:

They accepted my photo as a meter reading. 

The old bill of $504.24 has been voided.

I received a corrected invoice for $91.89 has been received by email.  I will pay this when I next sit down to pay my bills. 

I was happy with the results, but they made me work for them.  My total on-hold time on the phone was 3:53 minutes (I always clock my on-hold times), which seems excessive.

But a satisfactory resolution that required no compromise by either party.

See, now that would qualify as a good result, but a bad overall experience with customer service. (From a comment on another thread about customer service)

My house had similarly old gas and water meters, which required inside visits from a manual reader. The electric meter is outside and easily accessed. All of them have been up-dated to remote readers, over the years. The "unintended consequences" part of that is some Federal safety regulations that say the gas meter must be visually inspected every 2 years. While it definitely reduces the frequency, I still have to make an appointment to deal with it

 

[Packard]

What I learned from this is that it makes sense to be armed with a photo of the meter before making the phone call. 

The meta-data assigns a precise location and time.  The meter number is on the face of the dials. 

I do have the meter reading department’s email address.  If I have an issue, I will skip the phone call and send a photo first to the meter reading department along with my phone number.  Their hold time will be much shorter than mine.

 

[luvmytoolz]

You don't have an ombudsman or local gov dept/consumer affairs that would follow that up and enforce it on your behalf there? Or are you completely at the mercy of the utility companies?

 

[onocoffee]

You don't have an ombudsman or local gov dept/consumer affairs that would follow that up and enforce it on your behalf there? Or are you completely at the mercy of the utility companies?

Oh you Aussies! So cute that you think we have those kinds of things here!

 

[Mini Me]

Oh you Aussies! So cute that you think we have those kinds of things here!

Yep, we are socialist lefties.

 

[Steve1]

It could be that I was getting estimated bills for the last few billing cycles and this bill reflects an adjustment.

I had a similar problem with my gas readings. Not so much high, but like they were coming from a random number generator.
Gas company web site showed that they do actual reading every second month, and others will be estimated.
I track my usage, so I called customer service to ask which months were actual, and which were estimated.
So he goes into my account and says "oh, wow, we haven't read your meter in 6 months"
I now read my meter on the last day of each month and submit it online to the gas company.

You should be able to read your meter and track usage on an Excel spreadsheet. (or, the old fashioned way, on a sheet of paper)

 

[Packard]

More importantly, those lally columns need to be placed on concrete footers that are the requisite size and extend at least 12" deep and those footers are then built on a compacted base. If the contractor simply just placed the new lally columns on the 4"-6" thick concrete floor...the sad story may not be over yet. [sad]

Locating the original placement might not have been as difficult as might first one might assume. These houses were built on Long Island in the 1950s. Typically a speculating contractor would build 5 to 20 identical homes all at once. Most would be sold before completion so some customization was OK.

So by measuring the location of one of the neighbors’ home’s lally columns, they would know the approximate location of the original columns that were removed could be easily be located. Of course there is no telling how much the builders felt compelled to follow the original architect’s drawings…

When I moved into my home (upstate) I discovered the original architect’s drawings in one of the closets. I have not had to refer back to them, but nice to have.

 

[Cheese]

When I moved into my home (upstate) I discovered the original architect’s drawings in one of the closets. I have not had to refer back to them, but nice to have.

That'd definitely be a bonus round... ...after all these years you are probably at the 1% level of original document owners.

 

[mwolczko]

Emporia makes a $40 device called the Vue Utility Connect which provides a wireless live feed and history from a smart meter on your phone. It’s not usable everywhere, only where they have a sharing agreement in place with the utility. In addition to the accompanying phone app, you can also feed the data into other apps (I use Home Assistant). For the price I find it very useful: you can examine the usage as you switch items on and off without standing at the meter, and the usage charts can answer questions like just how much power your house used while you were asleep, and when. Measurements are taken every 30s or so (at least on my meter). They also make much more sophisticated and expensive monitors that install into the panel and can monitor individual circuits, but I have no experience of these.

More info: https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/products/utility-connect?variant=34376065581101

 

[Packard]

Emporia makes a $40 device called the Vue Utility Connect which provides a wireless live feed and history from a smart meter on your phone. It’s not usable everywhere, only where they have a sharing agreement in place with the utility. In addition to the accompanying phone app, you can also feed the data into other apps (I use Home Assistant). For the price I find it very useful: you can examine the usage as you switch items on and off without standing at the meter, and the usage charts can answer questions like just how much power your house used while you were asleep, and when. Measurements are taken every 30s or so (at least on my meter). They also make much more sophisticated and expensive monitors that install into the panel and can monitor individual circuits, but I have no experience of these.

More info: https://shop.emporiaenergy.com/products/utility-connect?variant=34376065581101

Central Hudson has been using estimated usage for billing, and actual readings to periodically update. There have been so many complaints that they have been ordered to transition to actual readings. Right now they have to send out a meter reader. They are implementing some sort of electronic system that sends data to the utility.

In any case, it seems that my bills are reasonable. I would like to see the meter reading that they are working from on the bill so that I can compare it with my meter.

The meter looks exactly the same as the one on my parents’ house which was built in 1956.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

You could also try taking your own meter readings every day for a week, and see if the readings are consistent with the average kWh/day the energy company is providing. Maybe there is a pattern of much higher usage on some days?

If there is a steady constant drain, try turning off individual circuits on the breaker panel to see if you can narrow down the culprit.

Have you bought anything else that's new which may be a high drain appliance (or accidentally left switched on)?

Could also be an incorrect meter reading. My father once had a bill for over £10,000 because the meter reader had mis-read a digit and was out by 100,000kWh. [eek]

You would think that something this extreme would get flagged by the utility company, before it ever gets sent to the consumer? Something is wrong and they should know it.

 

[Packard]

You would think that something this extreme would get flagged by the utility company, before it ever gets sent to the consumer? Something is wrong and they should know it.

I had a heat treating vendor that was driven out of business by a screwed up utility bill. They got a $100,000.00 gas bill, which was more than all their furnaces running 24 hours a day could consume.

They went to court over it, but all the court was interested in was the meter reading. Since they could not come up with the extra $100,000.00, they were shut down. Logic be damned.