ETS EC 150 EQ 6 inch Random Orbit Sander- 3 or 5mm orbit?

[Crazyraceguy]

If you're happy with the rotex type sander you currently have, then I would recommend the ETS EC 150/3 for fine finishing. Later I would recommend getting an ETS EC 150/5 just because they are so darn superb if you can.
It an absolute beast, but handles very fine finishing just as good, and being half sheet it's sort of a cheaper compromise with getting the BS105 belt sander and frame (which is also a spectacular sander!).

Even as extreme as I am with this stuff, having an ETS EC 150 in both 3mm and 5mm orbit is pretty over-the-top. I do realize that you put in the disclaimer of "if you can" though....lol
If you have a Rotex, do you really need a 5mm in another form-factor?
The BS105 may be the greatest thing ever, but it's one of the infamous NAINA tools, so it depends on the country where you live.

 

[Cheese]

Yes he does, but he's only working on 1 sq ft of surface. Refinishing a 3' wide door or 7' long table with a Rolex would not be fun. That's what the ETS EC for the door or the RS 2 for the table are used for.

Can you explain? Since rotex mode is fastest, why wouldn't it be better for a larger surface? Especially for a table, where the workpiece is horizontal.

The Rotex with lower grit papers can remove a lot of material if you're not careful so trying to maintain flatness over a large area can become problematical. It would have been nice if in the video, Larry showed the surface finish of that walnut board with a raking light, however because the square area is so small, that minimizes the amount of trouble you can get into.  [smile]

The Rotex is unique but it's not a 1 size fits all item. On a continuous, daily basis I'd never use a Rotex as a RO sander unless it was an emergency. They're heavy and were designed to be maneuvered with 2 hands. You have to be constantly aware that the pad is flat to the surface you're sanding to prevent swirls.

The ETS EC body on the other hand was designed to be guided with one hand and actually, you can guide it with no hands by just steering it with the vac hose. The balance is better, the ergonomics are better and obviously it's easier to use on vertical and overhead surfaces.

 

[smorgasbord]

If you see an LS130 for sale I would highly recommend grabbing...
If you're happy with the rotex type sander you currently have, then I would recommend the ETS EC 150/3 for fine finishing. Later I would recommend getting an ETS EC 150/5 just because they are so darn superb if you can.
If you do ever see an RS2E half sheet sander, I couldn't recommend getting that high enough...

OK, [member=75933]luvmytoolz[/member] wow, that's potentially 4 additional sanders - 3 of which are random orbit!  [eek]

I did just order the LS130 at a discounted price (both BeaverTools and Guiry's have it discounted; Hartville on Amazon is full price), as well as some pads and the scraper. Going through what abrasives to get for it now, and probably will want to pick up a systainer for the rolls/papers.

Back on-topic, thanks for confirming that the 150/3 is the RO I should probably get. My Bosch rotex-type sander is pretty good, as it's the old made in Germany version so it's quite robust and I don't use it often enough and long enough that it pays for me to switch, at least until Festool comes out with a brushless version (if ever). If anything the RO90 with its option for corner sanding would be the one I'd choose next.

[member=44099]Cheese[/member], thanks for the explanation on the rotex and keeping things flat. I agree about the two hands thing - my Bosch has pretty much the same requirement - hence my looking for a ETS EC.

The half sheet sander sounds intriguing, but I don't think I'll find one for sale anytime soon, and I would hope my dual drum sander gets me to flat at 150 grit for anything up to 24" wide. So, now to decide if I'm getting the ETS EC from a dealer or wait for a reconditioned one to hit.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Even as extreme as I am with this stuff, having an ETS EC 150 in both 3mm and 5mm orbit is pretty over-the-top. I do realize that you put in the disclaimer of "if you can" though....lol
If you have a Rotex, do you really need a 5mm in another form-factor?
The BS105 may be the greatest thing ever, but it's one of the infamous NAINA tools, so it depends on the country where you live.

Couldn't help myself! ;-) I really hate changing papers all the time, and while I know the newer sander pads are a better design to the old ones, I still have stuck in the back of mind the amount of times I would change paper and it would pull a little more of the velcro pad off the base from my old sanders, bearing in mind most of my Festo stuff was bought 35-40 years ago.

I really don't get why the BS105 was dropped, and also not available in some areas, with the frame it is an incredibly useful sander. Granted the drum sander does a lot of that work now, but there's times only the BS105 will work. And being able to flip it and use it as a linisher on site has been incredibly useful for me at times.

 

[luvmytoolz]

OK, [member=75933]luvmytoolz[/member] wow, that's potentially 4 additional sanders - 3 of which are random orbit!  [eek]

Can never have too many sanders.....routers....clamps....hammers (I love hammers!)...etc, etc! ;-)

 

[Crazyraceguy]

[member=75933]luvmytoolz[/member] I know exactly what you mean about additional "units" for dedicated tasks. That is why I have so many routers. (2 OF1010, an OF1400, and 2 MFK700) and that's just the Festool stuff.
Sanders too, effectively the same reason. I am in a large shop with 2 screw-type compresors, with all of the volume you could ever use. So, pneumatic sanders still play a role. I have 3 Ingersol-Rand 328b sanders. They are an 8" geared-orbital which is very much like Rotex mode, but they use PSA paper. It is a genuine PITA to swap paper and realistically you cannot re-use it. I use 40, 80, and 120 grit with these. One sander per grit, so it only comes off when spent.
These things are so much bigger and they have tiny little air-motors, so the balance is far different from the Rotex. They never tilt or feel grabby, like a Rotex can. You cannot "dig a hole" with one either. Even with 40 grit, they are slower to take off high spots though, because they work a much larger area. They are messy, no dust extraction at all. I generally prefer to start blending with the RO125 and then move to the bigger IR 328b as the area expands. Thos big things will get you flat, if you keep at it long enough.
I might be better off with an RO150, but I got the 125 because of paper compatibility with my other sanders. I still have/use a 5" palm-style pneumatic and of course the ETS EC 125, so they all can use the same paper.
I use them mostly for blending panels before veneering or laminating (HPL) and for solid surface. That can use every grit from 40 to over 2000, when high gloss polishing is needed. The Rotex sanders are great for this too, from the roughest blending to the highest polish. I used to switch off the Rotex in the middle grits as it's not really helpful there. Now I use the ETS EC for that.
I guess that's why I don't see the need for both? At least for me, the aggressive 5mm is covered by the Rotex, and the finer finish of the 3mm is where I am going. Then back to the Rotex, for the highest grits and "buffing".
I don't have any non-rotating sanders. I may still pick up an LS130 before they are all gone, bu it also brings in another type of paper. That's what's holding me up.
35-40 years ago, I had never heard of Festo, heck even 20. When I did, for the first time, I had no idea/appreciation of what it was. As with most people on first-blush, I just saw "expen$ive".
My beginning was with DF500, because of it's uniqueness, and grew from there.
I would love to have been able to get ahold of a BS105. It would be very useful to me, but I had never even heard of a sanding frame before joining this group. It's just one of the things we miss out on because of the NAINA thing.
I'm a bit of a Bessey hoarder too, though conspicuously light on Woodpeckers stuff? Track square is all I have.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Yeah it's really hard to beat having multiple tools setup for different specific tasks. When I started out 40 years back I did a lot of small carpentry jobs and an awfully huge amount of door hanging, as with most things when you take pride in what you do, I ended up very busy from word of mouth recommendations, but I started out with cheap tools very naively thinking they are made to do the same as more expensive tools so how can it be worth spending lots more on expensive stuff.

I couldn't have been more wrong, I can't count the amount of sanders I killed, or the drills I burnt out using the large doorknob forstner bits.

The other aspect was the amount of wrist and arm pain I was getting while working. When I bought my first few Festo (as they were called then) tools, it was like night and day. And I could happily use the tools for hours on end without the threat of RSI as it seemed I was heading towards.

So for me, I greatly appreciate they are expensive, but the cost of health and safety, and also convenience and tool reliability and longevity means I really don't have trouble justifying them and will get them as I can afford them (and the wife permits!), although granted I didn't get around to the OF2200 until last year! ;-)

I get such enjoyment from working with my hands, to me they are part of my mental and health well being!

Plus it keeps me off the streets! ;-)

 

[jcrowe1950]

If you see an LS130 for sale I would highly recommend grabbing it, it is utterly unique and nothing else will perform that function as well as it does. If you can also get some of the blank bases to go with it they would be handy for when you do a lot of a certain profile.

If you're happy with the rotex type sander you currently have, then I would recommend the ETS EC 150/3 for fine finishing. Later I would recommend getting an ETS EC 150/5 just because they are so darn superb if you can.

If you do ever see an RS2E half sheet sander, I couldn't recommend getting that high enough, I would bet you'll find it to be your go to sander for all panel, sheet, large items, etc as it doesn't dig ridges. It an absolute beast, but handles very fine finishing just as good, and being half sheet it's sort of a cheaper compromise with getting the BS105 belt sander and frame (which is also a spectacular sander!).

  Nice post....

    FWIW, even though the LS130 is discontinued, you can still find it at least in the US. We have sold a number of them over the last few years and the people doing restoration seem to love them.

    WRT the ETS EC 150/3 and /5, it makes a ton of sense to me to start with the 150/5 and then grab a ETS EC 125/3 and stick a 150 pad on it for finish sanding. This is my favorite sander platform for long periods of sanding. Runs cool and one handed sanding is pretty easy. The lack of heat generated by brushes on armatures (as in the Rotex) makes for a much more comfortable experience IMO.

      The RO 150 is a great belt sander replacement IMO. I never managed to master belt sander physics but I can manage the RO 150 for both aggressive sanding and for polishing....it's not optimal for either but it gets the job done.

      IMO, Festool erred when they cancelled the RS2. I managed to score one right after it was discontinued and it is one of my favorite sanders for finish flattening large surfaces of solid wood....think slab tables. I liken it to a Stanley or  Bailey #8 plane. Takes some getting used to the method of work but boy howdy will it make a surface flat.

    Oh, and Luvmytoolz....congrats on your OF 2200 purchase...I have just ordered one myself. That really is the best of the Festool routers and surprisingly comfortable, even for a sawed off lad like me, to handle handheld. Make sure to get the accessories kit that includes the four bases, edge guide, rods and template bushings. That router on the rail is really nice and it has some sort of esoteric features related to micro-adjustments. Plus the plunge lock is sweet and easy to engage....

 

[luvmytoolz]

The LS130 I don't use a lot, but when I do it's invaluable and saves a lot of time and effort. Well worth having.

As I have a lot of 150mm discs I went for the 150/5 and 150/3, the ETS EC sanders are the most joyous to use sanders I've ever owned, the balance weight and performance is just superb! Although I wish they'd release the edge sanding device for the 150's like they did for the 125's, that could be quite useful.

My Rotex being the very first model RO1E is definitely no belt sander replacement for me, it really is akin to using an angle grinder. I got the RO90 not long back and that is just a beautiful machine, and has convinced me I need the new 150 Rotex when finances permit.

I'm glad you agree about the RS2E, it really is an exceptional sander, I will never sell my one, it's 40 years old but invaluable to me. I do have a couple of the RS3 sanders but they don't come close to the RS2E.

And the OF2200, my god what a marvel of design and technology! If I could put a wig on it I'd possibly let it sleep in my bed, I love it! That and the Domino XL are just 2 of the most amazing tools on the market I reckon, the sheer power of it, but the smoothness and balance is unreal. My poor old ELU MOF177E has been languishing since I got it!

 

[Ebuwan]

I have the 3mm stroke, and it's all I have for 6" and haven't ever found myself, at least for sanding a wooden project for finishing, wishing i had something more.

 

[Chainring]

I debated the 3mm vs. 5mm choices. Since I already had the RO 150, I went for a ETS EC in 3mm. My rationale was, heavier removal will be with the RO and I can go into non-driven mode, then move over to the ETS EC for even finer sanding. I'm happy with the choice.

 

[smorgasbord]

And the OF2200, my god what a marvel of design and technology! If I could put a wig on it I'd possibly let it sleep in my bed, I love it! That and the Domino XL are just 2 of the most amazing tools on the market I reckon, the sheer power of it, but the smoothness and balance is unreal. My poor old ELU MOF177E has been languishing since I got it!

I also like the DF700, but think there's a place for a middle-sized DF600. Like I said in another thread, Festool is offering the equivalent of ¼" and ½" socket sets, but most of the time a single ⅜" socket set is perfect. When the patents expire it'll be interesting to see what the competition offers, and then what Festool is forced to offer.

As for the OF2200, it's a beast. So much so that it doesn't make sense to me to have such a big hand-held router unless you're forced to routing on-site construction jobs. And while the little locking tab for the depth stops enables use of the micro-adjuster, I still prefer the ergonomic setup on my middle-sized Bosch 1613EVS. My big router (an old PC 7518) is permanently mounted to a Jessem lift in a router table as part of my tablesaw extension wing.

Back on-topic:

I debated the 3mm vs. 5mm choices. Since I already had the RO 150, I went for a ETS EC in 3mm. My rationale was, heavier removal will be with the RO and I can go into non-driven mode, then move over to the ETS EC for even finer sanding. I'm happy with the choice.

That's great, just what I'm looking for. But, going into non-driven mode is more time-consuming on my Bosch than on your Rotexs, so my question is: "How often do you actually use non-driven mode on RO afterwards versus just going to the ETC EC/3 afterwards? I'd rather avoid that middle "step."

 

[Crazyraceguy]

You can definitely go straight to the ETS EC, but you might need to start with one grit more coarse.

 

[smorgasbord]

You can definitely go straight to the ETS EC, but you might need to start with one grit more coarse.

I was expecting to start with the same grit as I last left off with the previous device, but there are multiple scenarios:

Option 1:
1) Run wood through thickness planer.
2) Run wood through drum sander at 100 and 150 grits
3) Sand in ETS EC 150/3 at 150, then 220. Maybe finer for some exotics.
4) Hand sand at 220 in preparation for oil finish.

Option 2:
1) Run wood through thickness planer.
2) Sand in Bosch rotex-mode-equivalent at 100 then 120/150 grits
3) Sand in ETS EC 150/3 at 150, then 220. Maybe finer for some exotics.
4) Hand sand at 220 in preparation for oil finish.

Option 3:
1) Run wood through thickness planer.
2) Run wood through drum sander at 100 and 150 grits
3) Sand in Bosch rotex-mode-equivalent at 150 grit.
3) Sand in ETS EC 150/3 at 220 (or do I need to start at 150/180?)
4) Hand sand at 220 in preparation for oil finish.

Now, we can argue about the need for hand sanding later (maybe the ETS EC 150/3 will leave a better finish than my Bosch in random-orbit mode), but what I'm looking for is the fastest way go from planed wood to finish, and sometimes more tools/steps are faster than trying to make a single tool do it all.

Interesting discussion here now.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Option 3:
1) Run wood through thickness planer.
2) Run wood through drum sander at 100 and 150 grits
3) Sand in Bosch rotex-mode-equivalent at 150 grit.
3) Sand in ETS EC 150/3 at 220 (or do I need to start at 150/180?)
4) Hand sand at 220 in preparation for oil finish.

Now, we can argue about the need for hand sanding later (maybe the ETS EC 150/3 will leave a better finish than my Bosch in random-orbit mode), but what I'm looking for is the fastest way go from planed wood to finish, and sometimes more tools/steps are faster than trying to make a single tool do it all.

Interesting discussion here now.

If you're sanding with 150 grit in the drum sander (which is a pretty high grit for a drum sander), you shouldn't need to touch it with the Rotex, and should be able to go straight to 220-240 grit at a minimum with the ETS EC as the lines will be almost barely perceptible and it will take very little effort to clean up.

My drum sander has mostly alleviated my need to use grits lower than 220 or so on the sanders, except for cases when I need to bring the tool to the wood. The drum sander is probably my most efficient tool in the shed, saves me heaps of time allowing me to go straight to the final fine finishing.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The drum sander would likely be the one I cut out, unless it is absolutely required because of tear out.
Planer
Start with 120 on the Rotex.
Quick hit with 120 on the ETS EC.
Final with 150, 220
Hand 220, then oil
Of course, this might very some, depending on the wood in question.

I just don't see the need for 150 with the Rotex (on wood) Acrylic or Polyester based solid surface  would be different, but not part of this. That's where I would use it though.

This assumes that you are starting with rough lumber or leveling joints from a glue-up.

 

[smorgasbord]

The drum sander would likely be the one I cut out, unless it is absolutely required because of tear out.

Absolutely not! If the stock is right for it, it's the hands-down fastest and easiest way to get a board off the planer to a medium grit, and keeping the stock flat and uniform thickness. I'll race anybody - heck I'll race any two people on the same size board with whatever Festools they want.

I expect that Option 1 (drum, ETS EC, hand) will be the way to go for most projects. Only if the boards/top is too wide or thick for the drum sander would I skip it for the rotex.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Absolutely not! If the stock is right for it, it's the hands-down fastest and easiest way to get a board off the planer to a medium grit, and keeping the stock flat and uniform thickness. I'll race anybody - heck I'll race any two people on the same size board with whatever Festools they want.

I expect that Option 1 (drum, ETS EC, hand) will be the way to go for most projects. Only if the boards/top is too wide or thick for the drum sander would I skip it for the rotex.

I have to agree with the preference for the drum sander, given a choice between the planer or the drum sander for any type of even semi finish work the drum sander wins hands down every time for me. I keep the thicknesser for rough dimensioning of fairly large runs of timber, all else once cut goes through the drum sander to avoid tear-out on the last mile and give me a finish that's ready for glue up, or needs barely any further sanding for final assembly.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

This is all relative (even speculative), since we have no idea of the starting point. If the planer is "required" for the obvious reasons, then the drum sander is not (necessarily) Tear-out being the exception.
With a good enough finish directly off the planer, a not so intense session with the RO will smooth that right out. "Finish sanding" can begin after that.