exciting new project I am starting a cherry entertainment center

[honeydoman]

I am going to be starting a all cherry entertainment center., my first one out of cherry.  done a whole bunch, paint grade and several small ones oak stained.

I am going to be making doors that are flush mount so the bottom front of the center is all flush.

any tips that you have found would be helpful.

the cherry is going to be stained using sherwin williams oil base stain.  should I use a prestain on it?

2 coats of semi gloss and then one coat of semi.  brushed on.  stain is brush on then wipe.  is my plan.  I do not have a hvlp system.... but have a whole sh#t load of festools!!!!

has anybody cut up the pieces and get them ready for assemble, but stained before assembly then put together and varnished?

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Honeydokreg,

I prestained the pieces of my Four Piece Entertainment Center and Bookcases project.  I used masking tape to cover the areas to be glued later.
Here's a link to the thread on my project.  Probably a better resource is the PDF I created of the whole project.  On my PC, I can use the "control" plus "F" function to search for any term within that PDF.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=5798.0

Because my project was made of red oak and Target Coatings advised of potential problems due to chemical reaction between the acidic tannins in the oak and the very alkaline chemistry of the Target Coating materials I planned to use, I included some additional sealing steps that would not need to use with cherry wood.

I brushed some of my finish coats, but not the final water-based lacquer coats, although Target Coatings information indicates you can wipe or brush those materials as well.

I like to use a wash coat of solvent base shellac (Zinnser's SealCoat) as a precaution to help avoid any blotchiness in absorbing the oil-based wiping stains that I normally use  (mostly Minwax brand which is a combination of a dye-type and a pigment type stain and will blotch on some woods).  I have not experienced as much blotching on cherry as many others have reported.  My recollection may be wrong, but I think in 2008 FWW included an article on avoiding blotchiness particularly in cherry.

Dave R.

 

[JayStPeter]

Using a standard oil based stain on cherry is a recipe for lots of sanding to remove it.  I've had better luck putting a thin shellac and then using a gel stain.  I have used dye first, but a glaze is usually necessary to even out the piece.  My favorite cherry pieces are the ones I didn't stain.  If you're going to stain it, use something like Alder that doesn't blotch up and won't darken with age and ruin your desired coloring anyway.  I made a piece about 5 years ago from cherry that I stained a "java" color to match some pottery barn thing.  5 years later, the pottery barn thing has faded and the cherry has darkened significantly and my near perfect match is not even close. 
Cherry is my favorite wood, but the bottom line is I don't use it anymore if I plan on staining the piece.  There are plenty of woods that take dye and stain much better.  Also with cherry, some pieces actually stain and finish perfectly and some blotch like crazy.  So a test board isn't always accurate to what you'll get as far as blotching goes.  And, what you actually get may vary over the piece.  Usually the "interesting" boards I choose for door fronts and tops are the ones that blotch, while the nice straight grain pieces I choose for face frames and rail/stiles look pretty consistent.  Also, be careful of heart wood.  Cut it out if you don't want "interesting" details, it doesn't darken with the rest of the piece.  In fact, I think it gets even lighter over time.  If you dye it to hide it, dye it much darker than the rest of the piece so it'll catch up over time.  I've never gone dark enough, even when I've dyed it to look like a very dark cherry stripe, the rest of the piece passed it by and left a light strip.

Jay

 

[nickao]

Why are you staining Cherry? A clear finish and 6 months later the color is perfection.

 

[jaegerhund]

I've never worked with cherry but have heard the staining problems it can cause ------- what about sealing it and using  the finish coat as a colorant ---- i.e., using shellac (which can cover a wide range of colors) as the "stain" ?

Justin

 

[bruegf]

I have over a dozen pieces of naturally finished cherry furniture that either my dad built or I built myself.  Within weeks the color changes and, in my opinion, is absolutely gorgeous.  I can't image why anyone stains cherry.

Fred

 

[nickao]

I am with you 100% guys, but he may have certain results he needs to obtain. I am just wondering what that may be.

honeydokreg has posted some fantastic projects in the past.

Most here know I am a shellac person.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I have never had problems with blotchiness when staining cherry.  Poplar, maple and pine, yes.  Like others have said, some staining is likely to be necessary to even out th color if that is important to you.  I don't try to make it very dark.  

Jay, you must live where there is a lot more sunlight than where I live (Akron, OH).  There are at least five piece of cherry furniture in my home that I made more than 20 years ago.  While it is true they have darkened somewhat, they are nowhere near as dark as the typical commercial furniture factory finishes.  On a desk made back then, I wasn't as careful as I should have been when staining the leg to apron areas.   The legs were of lighter wood than the aprons.  The darker stained areas near the ends of the aprons can still be easily made out.

Also, I think you meant to beware of the younger wood, not the heartwood which is reddish and the reason many people like cherry.  

Dave R.

 

[nickao]

No they are not as Dark becasue those commercial finishes are not a TRUE Cherry color.

American Cherry is lighter than most people think it is. I have had this issue many, many times. Clients have no idea of the true color of wood, the manufactures use a darker color to hide the imperfections.

I have sanded down plenty if Cherry furniture, especially cabinets and you can not go to a clear coating, heck once I had 7 cabinet faces near a green color, but from the manufacturer with the stain they look great.

I had a  sheet of paper on a brand new piece of Cherry cabinet door for 3 months, it was at least 5 shades different after I checked.

Dave you are either lucky all trees are different or your rooms do not have as much light as the newer homes  that are opened up a great deal to light.

I have had fresh Cherry a nice color, I have had it very light too.

All my Cherry that is in the 100 year old pile is really dark, most of the new stuff is really light, but after storing about a year it is just right, until I sand or plane it of course.

PS I have had blotchiness in Cherry a bunch of times and had to go to a Gel stain to make it work. But what some call blotchy I call figure and or 'curly" so we may be talking a differnt things here. Some people want an almost painted consistency which I find to be horrible, homeowners say blotchy I say it the gorgeous color of the woods.

They are trees for heavens sake and the Cherry from southern IL is totally different for some of the Cherry I get from Ohio and Pennsylvania. Clients will be clients though.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Nick, our views regarding cherry are more in agreement than not.  Some call blotchy what I call figure.  I can count sunny days per year in NE Ohio without much exceeding the number of fingers and toes on one person.  I think you can slow down the rate at which cherry reacts to sunlight by using a coating that has UV inhibitors.  That will not stop the darkening process, but will slow it down.  I always choose a stain that is rather light and merely sligthtly tones the wood; I do not want to cover or hide the grain as many commercial furniture makers do.  A few years ago, my wife and I had our kitchen cabinets redone with new cherry doors and drawer fronts and all the face frames and exposed panels.  The original light color (Benjamin Moore oil stain) has darkened slightly except where sunlight canot penetrate.  Although the cabinets are frequently praised by visitors, my wife and I both find them much less appealing than the ones I made in our previous home which were finished with oil-based varnish over a wash coat of shellac and a very light oil wiping stain.  The catalyzed finish on the renewed kitchen cabinets is nearly flawless, but it is not nearly as clear and lacks the depth of the old oil based varnish.  To my eyes, it is slightly opague or foggy.

Dave R.

 

[honeydoman]

thanks for all the info.  I am going to put a clear coat on a piece and see what it looks like... and then show to customer..  they have a piece of furniture that I am trying to get close to... but they are open because the furniture is down stairs and this unit is upstairs in their bonus room

is sherwin williams oil base stain good to use... straight on the wood with no pre- stain... or should I use a general finish that woodcraft sells as a water base.... or a gel base?

 

[wnagle]

In Ohio, we'd probably have to use a tanning bed rather than wait for a sunny day!  :-\

 

[Dave Ronyak]

If you have time and a sunny day or two, place a piece of cherry in the sunlight with a section masked.  The unmasked section will be several shades darker after an afternoon in direct sunlight.  This may help the client understand the darkening process from uv exposure.

Joe

Good point, and good demo idea!! 

But Wayne is also correct.  Come to my house and I'll show you.  There is some darkening, but it is nothing even approaching the finishes you commonly see on commercial cherry furniture such as that by Pennsylvania House or Ethan Allen and others.

Dave R.

 

[nickao]

That Pennsylvania Cherry is actually a color and many people confuse that with being Cherry wood.

Actually, a ton of that furniture is popular with the Pennsylvania Cherry stain whith that dark purplish looking color, which to this day my mom calls cherry wood.

Here is a great piece on America Cherry:

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00156.asp

I concur with just about everything this guy says.

Here is one part of the article

"The challenges in achieving an attractive finish on a project made of cherry are dictated by how carefully the stock was initially selected. In other words, the die is cast the moment you choose a board based on its appearance, pigmentation, porosity and texture. Because of cherry's unending patina-forming process, its ultimate appearance is a perpetual work-in-process, regardless of what you do to tone, seal or polish the completed piece. I suspect, given my own early experiences with this species, that a beginning woodworker tends to assume that the stunning beauty of cherry pieces created by experienced masters is the result of some special skill or secret trick in the finishing process, but much of the credit goes to the wood itself".

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Nick,  what you stated may be correct.  But there is a Pennsylvania House furniture brand.  Here is a link to their site.
http://www.pennsylvaniahouse.com/ 

Dave R.

 

[nickao]

Oh I know that, that was my bedroom set company before my house fire.

I was just referring to manufacturers confusing people with their trade names and made up color names etc.

Like Brazilian Cherry its Jatoba(not cherry at all), etc. And these names stick too, though deceiving in many cases. So much so people think these names and colors are actually wood types.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Joe,

I was born and raised in SW PA in Washington County.  Left there for college and never lived there again.  You have more sunny days per year than does Akron.

Cherry coloration darkening is definitely due to a photochemical reaction.

Dave R.

 

[Warrior]

honeydew,

I would go for a garnet shelac and a top coat of poly for protection.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Eiji,

Would you use any coating products with a UV inhibitor?  Supposedly those would reduce the rate/amount of darkening due to sunlight.  Oxford brand vinyl sealer is listed as having UV inhibitors and suitable under topcoats for interior and exterior work.

Dave R.

 

[Warrior]

Eiji,

Would you use any coating products with a UV inhibitor?  Supposedly those would reduce the rate/amount of darkening due to sunlight. 

That is exactly why you would not want any UV inhibitors.