EZ Stuff

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Per Swenson said:
Hey kids!

Hey Dino, whats up?

Let me help everybody out here, for the new people,

there is a long running internet jousting match that occurs whenever

EZ and Festool meet on the tubes. Think the latest nonsense around here

is fun to watch? Well, this gets going you ain't seen nothing yet.

Per
Click to expand...

Thanks for the historical overview Per.

...Waiting for Dino's reply...

How about a link to F VS Dino histoty?
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=20522

david
 
David,

Wow!

Thanks, I forgot about ma man.

But Boy that's nuthin, Too bad they wrapped chains around some of those threads and sank em in the Chesapeake.

Some true tool passion there. ;D

Per
 
Per,  That thread's from 2005, and the thing that kinda cracked me up, was all the "transparency" in your reply.  (ie; no-one gave me this, or paid me to say that) Seems the same old stuff just goes around and around, huh?

Thanks for your thoughts, here and elsewhere. 

Dan
 
Good Evening,
A little more history to add to Per's details...

Back in 2004, in the old Yahoo version of the Festool Owners Group, I extended an invitation to Dino to join the forum.  Why did I do that?  Well, I thought it would be fair, and because I thought the feuding was not necessary.  I honestly thought I could help mend fences.  Well, what ensued was one of the earliest fights in FOG history.  Members of my own forum became quite irate at me for doing this, and it took me by surprise (I myself dfid not truly understand the level of hostility, since I had not frequented the various forums at that time).  Most regrettable, I had some very uncomfortable exchanges with a couple of the most valuable FOG members (I won't mention names, but you remember who you are).

Well, I smoothed things over with the FOG members, and we're just fine today.  In fact, one of them has become one of my most trusted virtual friends.  I learned it was a big mistake for me to invite Dinoe and EZ into the FOG!

To make matters worse, Dino wrote several disparaging remarks about me on a prominent woodworking forum, including me in his general effort to criticize Festool.  Talk about showing a lack of class and decency for someone who put his neck on the line for you.

So, to members of the FOG, let me say this: Dino can come here and post, but he's on a short leash.

To Dino: you can post responses to direct criticism of your products.  But do not use this forum to promote EZ Smart.

Thanks,
Matthew
 
I had no idea this was as serious as all of that ------- and in general don't understand how things can become as serious (my personality I suppose) .    Excuse the sparring jest on my part -----

Justin
 
Wow! I am taken back by your response Matthew.  I certainly would not expect anyone to be publicly humiliated and thrown under the bus by the Forum Administrator.  I do not know the history between Dino(not Dinoe)FOG, Festool, Matt,  David, or anyone in this witch hunt.  Those are 3-4 year old beefs not relevant to Eli's original post.

 
IMHO, it would be best for all concerned if those old F vs EZ wars were left in the archives.  Speaking from personal experience, nobody will benefit from reviving any of that stuff.  The sooner this thread dies, the better.
 
Matthew Schenker said:
Good Evening,
A little more history to add to Per's details...

Back in 2004, in the old Yahoo version of the Festool Owners Group, I extended an invitation to Dino to join the forum.  Why did I do that?  Well, I thought it would be fair, and because I thought the feuding was not necessary.  I honestly thought I could help mend fences.  Well, what ensued was one of the earliest fights in FOG history.  Members of my own forum became quite irate at me for doing this, and it took me by surprise (I myself dfid not truly understand the level of hostility, since I had not frequented the various forums at that time).  Most regrettable, I had some very uncomfortable exchanges with a couple of the most valuable FOG members (I won't mention names, but you remember who you are).

Well, I smoothed things over with the FOG members, and we're just fine today.  In fact, one of them has become one of my most trusted virtual friends.  I learned it was a big mistake for me to invite Dinoe and EZ into the FOG!

To make matters worse, Dino wrote several disparaging remarks about me on a prominent woodworking forum, including me in his general effort to criticize Festool.  Talk about showing a lack of class and decency for someone who put his neck on the line for you.

So, to members of the FOG, let me say this: Dino can come here and post, but he's on a short leash.

To Dino: you can post responses to direct criticism of your products.  But do not use this forum to promote EZ Smart.

Thanks,
Matthew
Click to expand...

Matthew,
Any links from Dino's remarks?

 
d.epstein,
You could probably find it if you did a search on Fine Woodworking's forum.  A lot of those "EZ Smart Versus Festool" discussions were deleted by the moderators, and I have not been on that forum for quite some time.

vteknical said:
Wow! I am taken back by your response Matthew.  I certainly would not expect anyone to be publicly humiliated and thrown under the bus by the Forum Administrator.  I do not know the history between Dino(not Dinoe)FOG, Festool, Matt,  David, or anyone in this witch hunt.  Those are 3-4 year old beefs not relevant to Eli's original post.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you're taken aback by my response.  I'm just making sure people know the history here.  Who has been "publicly humiliated and thrown under the bus by the Forum Administrator"?

The term "witch hunt" might be a little strong for this.  It's more of a difference of opinion between two opposing camps.  I think a lot of people stumble into it innocently, as I did back in the early days.  Unfortunately, because of the history, Eli's original post is relevant to the fight, even though Eli himself was innocent of the history.

Thanks,
Matthew
 
Matthew Schenker said:
To make matters worse, Dino wrote several disparaging remarks about me on a prominent woodworking forum, including me in his general effort to criticize Festool.  Talk about showing a lack of class and decency for someone who put his neck on the line for you.

Matthew,
I remember the thread on FW. It was something like that:

Matthew:
The problems with all guide systems is the ability to hold and cut narrow stock.
Festool and eurekazone are working on it.

Me. Dinoe?:
Matthew, You're making a false statement.
We offer the smart clamping system for over a year now and you know that.
Can you please take your statement back?

Matthew:
The Festool system is superior, made in Germany...  Without retreating your misleading and untrue statements about the capabilities of the ez smart system/smart clamping system.

What you expect from someone under attack by you and your F-troops?
You must think that most people are minions.
If someone calls anyone"Minion" in my forum I will  delete his post and tell him to take a hike.
You on the other hand allowed your troops to call me and other ez users "minions"
A quick search in your forum reveals just that.

So, to members of the FOG, let me say this: Dino can come here and post, but he's on a short leash.

Matthew,
This is not the only place where I can speak.
I will make a video with the Festool VS eurekazone story. With facts and only facts.
The true is that you and other paid  Festool contractors started the Festoolian wars against me and eurekazone.

To Dino: you can post responses to direct criticism of your products.  But do not use this forum to promote EZ Smart.

Thanks,
Matthew
Click to expand...

I don't have to promote the ez smart system. Here or elsewhere.
I strongly believe that a good product needs no paid misinformers,
paid editors and sponsored reviewers to make it.

Now you can  go ahead and delete my post.  
I saved a copy for my youtube video intro.

Starting Monday. Under the title: The  eurekazone story.
Nothing but the facts. And I have save them all.

Nothing personal Matthew.
I will never call you or any of the Festool users: minion

Yourcarpenterfriend.

Dinoe?

 
d.epstein said:
Matthew Schenker said:
d.epstein,
You could probably find it if you did a search on Fine Woodworking's forum. 

Matthew
Click to expand...

Thanks  Matt.

Taunton press?

David,
I tried a quick search on FWW forum but:
Your account is suspended. You will be unable to access membership content until this is resolved.

The reason? Taunton makes money from Festool.
and the ez smart is bad for taunton.
Go ahead Matthew and troops. If Dino tries to defend his product....
Your account is suspended. You will be unable to access membership content until this is resolved.

I saved the thread just in case. I need some time to find it.
Call me and I will direct you to the facts.
All similar to the thread that you posted from SMC forum.
Thanks for posting the thread.

 
Click to expand...
 
Daviddubya said:
IMHO, it would be best for all concerned if those old F vs EZ wars were left in the archives.  Speaking from personal experience, nobody will benefit from reviving any of that stuff.  The sooner this thread dies, the better.
Click to expand...

David,
What are you afraid of?
Are you the official  F- "Closer" on the internet forums?
I thought Per, Rick, Matthew, Dan Clark, John Lukas, Greg and few others can do better than that.

nobody will benefit from reviving any of that stuff.
History is good for the future.

Dino
 
Dino,
I'm not going to respond to your posts, but I do have to say one part really made me laugh.  That part when you say people here are "my troops."  That hilarious.  Everyone here is very independent, which is just the way we all like it.  Believe me, they are not my troops!

Thanks for a laugh, though, I can really use one lately.

Another point you made, something about Taunton making money from Festool... Doesn't Taunton make money from a lot of tool manufacturers?  And in any case, how does that have anything to do with this forum?

Thanks,
Matthew
 
Oh Man, here it goes...

Folks, we could be like the spectators at a Bar fight in progress,

or we could walk away.  I am betting we will still be here after the

Paramedic's bus leaves to belly up to the bar once again.

But for you newcomers, this crap stopped being about tools

and became about personalities years ago.

With a bit of tribalism thrown in.

So, while you guys and gals go  reach for the shovels to dig this cesspool deeper,

I am gonna go make some Popcorn.

Per
 
Dino said:
Daviddubya said:
IMHO, it would be best for all concerned if those old F vs EZ wars were left in the archives.  Speaking from personal experience, nobody will benefit from reviving any of that stuff.  The sooner this thread dies, the better.
Click to expand...

David,
What are you afraid of?
Are you the official  F- "Closer" on the internet forums?
I thought Per, Rick, Matthew, Dan Clark, John Lukas, Greg and few others can do better than that.

nobody will benefit from reviving any of that stuff.
History is good for the future.

Dino
Click to expand...

Thank you Dino for providing a perfect example of why I said, "it would be best for all concerned if those old F vs EZ wars were left in the archives".
 
I appreciate that the more experienced among us sharing some history.  As a newbie, I was a bit puzzled my the emotion I picked up reading the posts.

I don't quite understand the marketing strategy of the EZ folks.  I was literally interested in ordering one of the products, and was perusing their website..... THEN I read the owner's posts, and promptly decided that I would never, ever order anything from such a person.  If I was marketing a product, I would probably not go out of my way to insult an entire forum, its members, the tools they use, or the forum's administrator.  Strange.

But then again, thank you Dino for saving me several hundred dollars.

No need to reply, done deal.  Hope it felt good to "win."

EZ Blowsit
 
Matthew Schenker said:
Dino,
I'm not going to respond to your posts, but I do have to say one part really made me laugh.  That part when you say people here are "my troops."  That hilarious.  Everyone here is very independent, which is just the way we all like it.  Believe me, they are not my troops!

Thanks for a laugh, though, I can really use one lately.

Another point you made, something about Taunton making money from Festool... Doesn't Taunton make money from a lot of tool manufacturers?  And in any case, how does that have anything to do with this forum?

Thanks,
Matthew
Click to expand...

Matthew. Here is  some of your  anti-ez history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Schenker

Not true...

I am not, and have never been, interested in a war between Festool and EZ. In fact, I have always been excited about the possibility for new and better ideas, whoever develops them.

Anyone who wants to confirm what I just wrote just need to follow this link:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FestoolOwnersGroup/

Matt.
Read this before my last post on this thread.

YOU WROTE:

From the FOG.
Re: Debate between a table saw and Festool saw and guide.

Scott,
....I agree that the Festool system is not as good for ripping narrow
stock. When I rip narrow stock, I use a band saw. I never felt
comfortable using a table saw for this operation

....If Festool could devise a method for handling narrow stock under the
guide rail, and improve the bevel function of the plunge saws, then
they would have a perfect product. Right now, I'd say it is about 95%
there.....

Stay in touch,
Matthew
----------------------------------------------------------------------
PaulB,
I don't remember when you and I discussed this on another forum. Which forum was that?

To sum up, I do think that Festool comes out less expensive in the end. But my point is that to make the argument completely would be very involved, and it would rely on how you interpret what something is worth (like longevity and materials, etc.). That's why it's dificult, but I stand by my statement that in the end going the Festool route is cheaper.

I will admit that cutting thin strips using a Festool guide rail is not easy to do. You can do it, but it is the weakness of the Festool system. However, I think that EZ SmartGuide's claim that their system makes this easy is inaccurate. Have you tried lining up those thin pieces with the stop on the EZ SmartGuide? Yes, the piece you cut is thin, but certainly not straight enough. The fact is, cutting thin strips is something that all guide systems are working on improving.
If you look up and down the Festool line, you cannot help but come away with a general impression of superior engineering. EZ SmartGuide is claiming to have a better guide rail. Well, it's obviously debatable. Even if you give EZ SmartGuide the edge with their guide rail (which I don't), you can't match that up against an entire lineup of tools.

Festool has released a new version of their saw that has the anti-chip feature on both sides, as well as some other features. It's not available in the USA yet. I wouldn't say that this as any "admission" on Festool's part. The company, having excellent design and engineering, is always making improvements on an already superior product.

Edited 7/15/2005 8:55 am ET by Matthew Schenker
-------------------------------------------------------------------Re: You guys seen this (FOG)
Lonnie,
I've already checked out a demo of the EZ Smart Guide. As you can
imagine, it caught my eye! After watching it, I walked away saying,
"I like my Festool system better." I'd like to take them up on the
challenge. They will have a big headache if people really do
challenge them, and they will be giving away vacations, unless there
is some very fine print in the deal!

The set-up is much more cumbersome and more time-consuming than it is
with the Festool system. There are several more parts you have to
assemble and adjust to use the EZ Smart Guide. That takes care of
"faster and easier."

The finished cut depends on the saw you are using. With a good enough
saw, you could probably get a cut as straight as the Festool, but it
would not be as smooth, and you would not have the dust collection you
get with a Festool. That should take care of "better."

In short, there is no possible way that this system is "Better,
faster, AND easier" than the Festool system.

I'm wondering how they decide what constitutes "Better, Faster, and
Easier." Do they put you up against another woodworker using the EZ
Smart Guide? Do they hire a judge?

I'm going to contact the comany to find out more about this. I'll let
you know soon what I hear!

Thanks,
Matthew

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glaucon,
I agree with most of what you say. But I just want to comment on your statement about the Bosch and the Festool jigsaw.

Let me be blunt. There is no comparison! The new Bosch is often touted as a great jigsaw, and it is probably better than 95% of other machines on the market. I owned one for a while, before I got the Trion.

Let me tell you that the Festool jigsaw is as far ahead of the Bosch as the Bosch is ahead of any other jigsaw on the market.

Try cutting 3" or 4" thick wood with the Bosch and watch as that blade bends and twists. Cut the same wood with the Festool and observe how the blade remains stiff and straight.

There are other features that put the Festool way ahead of the Bosch. For example, with the guide-rail adapter, you could use the Festool jigsaw for perfectly straight cuts, abslutely clean, as good as a table saw -- no exaggeration.

In general, there are no tools available for the American market that come close to a Festool tool of the same category. Period.

Edited 7/13/2005 1:51 pm ET by Matthew Schenker

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew.

You can say you like the festool and nothing else, that's passionate opinion. But do not defame the merits of other tools or the efforts of others to invent new tools just to justify your affection.
This country still has some brilliant inventive minds. One of the obstacles they face in bringing a tool to market is the attitude that says 'there can be nothing better'.
The attitude Matthew, the 'superior' attitude.

Chris.

Thanks Chris.
__________________
YCF Dino
Matthews
You never called the company. You just spread misinformation and lies.
Here is the ez deal.
Before I post my new Festool vs Eurekazone videos at youtube,
come and take the ez challenge.
If not you, anyone.
In order to finish the war that was started by you and other Festoolians,
I think it's only fair to have a video comparison. 
Square a panel, clean cuts, narrow cuts,  large cross cuts, repeatable cuts, dust collection etc. etc.
This is a limited time invitation as I have better things to do.
Waiting for your call.
After all, you told your members that you're going to call the company... few years ago. ::)
Enjoy your weekend.
Dino.
 
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