Face frame bookcases advice needed

[joiner1970]

I'm pricing up some bookcases for a customer and they want face frames with fluted uprights. The carcases will be 18mm MR MDF and its all being painted.

What's the best wood for face frames if being painted. So far beech has been suggested.

Fluted bits will be around 88mm x 20mm and horizontal shelf edges etc will be 44mm x 20mm.

Also there are 14 MDF frame panel doors but these will be on Blum hinges so won't be hinged off the face frames.

Im based in Surrey UK so if anyone can recommend a decent timber supplier that would be good. I've got all my usual suppliers for sheet goods etc but I don't normally buy much hardwood.

Cheers

Chris

 

[Wuffles]

Please say beech, please say beech.

Just ordered 200m of it for my first ever face frames.

 

[CrazyLarry]

SL Hardwoods Croydon are pretty good and competitive in quantity at least.

Ask for Saheel or Raj.

Yes to Beech, strong, straight grain, not exactly cheap though but with hardwood what is.

Poplar if you can get it?

With a finish like Opac profilan the grain shows through and it dries in a couple of hours a coat

 

[Doug S]

I have used MR MDF for face frames before, it flutes out fine.

I normally use Tulipwood (poplar in the USA) it paints really well but beech is fine. There is also a grade of maple which I sometimes use, think its called colour, no defect.

If anything the Beech and Maple are tougher then the Tulipwood so won't get damaged as easily.

I generally use Arnold Laver for my Hardwood but don't know if there is a branch near you.

Doug

 

[Wuffles]

Prices I had for 70mm x 22mm finished were as follows:

Oak - £3.44pm
Beech - £2.19
Tulipwood - £1.98pm

Was kind of a no-brainer for me to go Beech given the difference in price and what I'd read about the strength.

 

[CrazyLarry]

Prices I had for 70mm x 22mm finished were as follows:

Oak - £3.44pm
Beech - £2.19
Tulipwood - £1.98pm

Was kind of a no-brainer for me to go Beech given the difference in price and what I'd read about the strength.

Definitely and once you've eased the edges on the beech it's quite 'ding' proof in a real home whereas although MDF can look just as good initially it does age quite quickly.

ergo beech is also good for bus shelters I assume you're providing an educational slant for those sitting and waiting?

 

[Wuffles]

Prices I had for 70mm x 22mm finished were as follows:

Oak - £3.44pm
Beech - £2.19
Tulipwood - £1.98pm

Was kind of a no-brainer for me to go Beech given the difference in price and what I'd read about the strength.

Definitely and once you've eased the edges on the beech it's quite 'ding' proof in a real home whereas although MDF can look just as good initially it does age quite quickly.

ergo beech is also good for bus shelters I assume you're providing an educational slant for those sitting and waiting?

I wrote a thesis on a toilet roll and hung it there, in case anyone forgot to bring a book with them.

 

[CrazyLarry]

I wrote a thesis on a toilet roll and hung it there, in case anyone forgot to bring a book with them.

That might be inviting the wrong sort of multifunctionality!

Interestingly close the price of your beech and tulipwood(poplar)

 

[joiner1970]

Cheers guys great help.

I had both of those companies come up on google.

Trouble is I've made plenty of MDF furniture over the years but only ever done one or two with face frames. I just went with mahogany before but it is a bit soft.

Do I need to worry about movement in the beech or acclimatising it to the house etc ?

 

[c_dwyer]

joiner:
I would imagine beech would be better, but not having that available, I've had good luck with poplar for two builds several years ago.  I did not flute the face frames, but I did bead them. For our upstairs, I incorporated a window seat which needed a custom cushion that ran us about $200 (not shown). Because of the hip roof and width of the wall (16'), I had to make everything up as I went, while trying to keep the shelf widths short to prevent sagging (3/4 birch ply with poplar bullnose).

The downstairs bookshelf went a lot faster, especially since it was more straightforward and I simply ordered the doors online (poplar & quarter ply) to the specs of the face frame openings rather than make them myself and no drawers to mess with. I wasn't set up for making doors at the time and it was far more cheaper, faster and accurate to just order them.  I milled beading with my router table, and just stuck it on the inside of the door frames to jazz it up a little and match the top.

I've found that the paint used helps a lot to protect from dings. There are a few threads on the FOG specific to that, which luckily matched up with what I used downstairs. What I used upstairs wasn't good, as the books etc. continued to stick even after several months. Not good.

Hope this helps.

 

[joiner1970]

Here's a quick sketch up of the layout. The left is nearly 3900mm and 1700mm on the right of the fire.

I have used Poplar in the past but it did feel a lot softer than beech.

 

[Tinker]

I have never tried using beech for anything but firewood.  When i was first breaking in to the building trades, i was working around an old carpenter (probably about 39 old) who had been suggestested to use beech for a project he was working on.  I don't remember what it was as I was working with the masons at that time.  I just remember his argument that he should not use beech.  When asked why, he said, "Aye,  I wouldn't use beech fer anything.  It just follows the sun with all its twistin'."

I always remembered that, but at same time, i have wondered why beech is used for many work benches when straight grained wood is needed.  I guess from what you guys are saying here, if beech is recommended for face frames, it's gotta be straight. I think I will give it a try on one of my upcoming projects.
Tinker

 

[jmbfestool]

Tulip is cheap and is plenty hard enough and stable

 

[SMJoinery]

Just finished a bookcase with fluted face frames and used MRMDF. Previously for this type of job I always used Poplar (Tulipwood) for the face frames due to its superior paint finish. However using Zinsser Bin sealer on the MRMDF edges I can get a great finish on the edges so find myself using it more unless client requests otherwise.

 

[John H]

Some common hard woods:
[attachimg=1]

 

[jimbouk]

Tulip every time. Best mix of value and quality.  I would be interested in hearing what you cost them at. Pm me if don't want to say here. I know what I would be charging.

 

[EdH]

Hi Joiner

I'm also based in Surrey and have used SL Hardwoods before. While I found them to be OK I now use Surrey Timbers (based in Godalming) who I find to be much better. http://www.surreytimbers.co.uk/ The owner Kevin is really helpful and they let you chose your boards which SL wouldn't let me do. Prices are pretty much the same.

I recently posted a project on this forum where I used beech for the face frames. Previously I've used tulip wood but found it to be really soft and easily prone to damage which is why I chose Beech for that project. It machined nicely, was easy to work with and painted very nicely. IMO if you can justify the extra cost go with beech, but if not tulip will be fine.

Looking forward to seeing your progress on the forum!!

Cheers
Ed

 

[joiner1970]

Cheers Ed great help

I'll take a look and yes beech does seem the way to go. I do remember poplar being very soft.

 

[jmbfestool]

Cheers Ed great help

I'll take a look and yes beech does seem the way to go. I do remember poplar being very soft.

Very soft? I don't think tulip is that soft.  It's not as hard as beech like but it's also not as expensive and is also more stable I think.

 

[Wuffles]

I keep hearing "stable" when I research beech for face frames. Can anyone enlighten me any more as that's as far as the comments go.

Cost wasn't much of an issue when I compared the prices (listed above).