Festool 20mm boring bit vs CMT 20mm straight bit - a demo
- Thread starter fritter63
- Start date
Here's my take on the simple box beam workbench with 20 mm holes. I made the 6" (2 taller than the previous ones) for better strength and less back pain .
The 20mm festool bit was awesome.
All domino joinery...a lot of them. 1/2" ply got sides, 3/4 maple 13 ply for top.
Will be two when finished.
The 20mm festool bit was awesome.
All domino joinery...a lot of them. 1/2" ply got sides, 3/4 maple 13 ply for top.
Will be two when finished.
Yukonal said:
They're actually 8 foot long. 12" wide, 6 3/4" deep.
About to rebuild with the following changes:
- no internal partitions (they get in the way of the clamps )
- bottom skin instead, large openings on side like Ron Paulks design.
- will still have one side with 20 mm holes
- top laminated with Formica for resistance to glue , water, finishes
- holes now 3 rows at 32 mm spacing, maybe 4.
PreferrablyWood
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- Sep 8, 2013
- Messages
- 972
Interesting idea with the box beam MFT Yukonal, I also like that you discovered that you needed to make some changes to the original, and shared that information here!
krisberden
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- May 14, 2013
- Messages
- 10
I've tried the Festool 20 mm bit as well on MDF but it caused a lot of burning. Is there a max speed limit you should use for it?
Grtz,
Kris
Grtz,
Kris
micknc
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- Aug 9, 2014
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- 19
I've never understood the comments about MDF not being suitable for structural purposes. Relative to some materials, yes, but vs many others, it's great. I made a simple MDF computer workstation using nothing more than glue and screws (including into edge grain) 20 years ago. I still use it everyday for hours with $$$ worth of computer equipment sitting on it. I've used MDF for shop cabinets, jigs and fixtures with zero failures for years and years.
When I built my top I found a compromise that worked well for me.
I had a slightly undersized half inch shank 25/32 straight bit from Whiteside that I used to hog out most of the hole. I set the depth to just shy of the MDF thickness. Then I used the 20mm Festool bit to finish.
I started trying this because I was concerned about using an 8mm shank to drill hundreds of holes in the MDF. While it takes two passes to accomplish I believe it will greatly extend the life of the boreing bit.
Dick Perry
I had a slightly undersized half inch shank 25/32 straight bit from Whiteside that I used to hog out most of the hole. I set the depth to just shy of the MDF thickness. Then I used the 20mm Festool bit to finish.
I started trying this because I was concerned about using an 8mm shank to drill hundreds of holes in the MDF. While it takes two passes to accomplish I believe it will greatly extend the life of the boreing bit.
Dick Perry
Michael Kellough
Member
fritter63 said:
Almost 2 years ago you considered changing your beam bench specs.
Did you change and if so how do you like it now?
I used a Freud 20mm bit to make my workbench and additional worksurface. On the bench, with a 3/4 plywood top, I used a spiral upcut bit to plunge 1/2 holes first. The Freud then brought the hole to 20mm pretty easily. There is a little chipout on the lower surface but I do not consider that to be significant. No burning. On the other worksurface, with a 1/2 plywood top, I just used the Freud. It worked but there was some burning and it was significantly harder to plunge. But the holes work fine.
MDF is structurally much weaker than plywood but that doesn't mean it has no strength. It is also very consistent. It tends to sag when unsupported but it doesn't typically warp. Plywood warps but is more resistant to sag. I hate the dust from MDF so I don't use it a lot but both are useful. MDF is also not a good choice if it might get wet. Plywood with exterior glue is pretty moisture resistant.
When I want something cheaper than plywood for something that needs to support weight, I usually use waferboard. It isn't nice to work with but is closer to plywood in strength. You certainly need to cover the edge.
MDF is structurally much weaker than plywood but that doesn't mean it has no strength. It is also very consistent. It tends to sag when unsupported but it doesn't typically warp. Plywood warps but is more resistant to sag. I hate the dust from MDF so I don't use it a lot but both are useful. MDF is also not a good choice if it might get wet. Plywood with exterior glue is pretty moisture resistant.
When I want something cheaper than plywood for something that needs to support weight, I usually use waferboard. It isn't nice to work with but is closer to plywood in strength. You certainly need to cover the edge.
STOP the MYTH
I'm not sure where it started, but I hear many Festool owner's have come to believe MFT tops are made of "HDF" or some other "special" material. They are plain old MDF; that's not a bad thing. I have yet to hear a reason why HDF would create a superior top surface. It would be more abrasive to bits & blades, less forgiving to your work (denting & scratching) and more difficult/expensive to replace. I contacted Festool customer support to verify this and their response was:
Hello,[/size]Thank you for contacting Festool. The tops of the MFT tables are all simple MDF tops that are not Hard Density Fiberboard or treated in any way.Best Regards,_________________________Festool USATooltechnic Systems, LLC400 N. Enterprise Blvd.Lebanon, IN 46052Title Product and Applications Specialist Dept.Dept. ServicePhone (888)-337-8600 x 3Web www.festoolusa.com
I'm not sure where it started, but I hear many Festool owner's have come to believe MFT tops are made of "HDF" or some other "special" material. They are plain old MDF; that's not a bad thing. I have yet to hear a reason why HDF would create a superior top surface. It would be more abrasive to bits & blades, less forgiving to your work (denting & scratching) and more difficult/expensive to replace. I contacted Festool customer support to verify this and their response was:
Hello,[/size]Thank you for contacting Festool. The tops of the MFT tables are all simple MDF tops that are not Hard Density Fiberboard or treated in any way.Best Regards,_________________________Festool USATooltechnic Systems, LLC400 N. Enterprise Blvd.Lebanon, IN 46052Title Product and Applications Specialist Dept.Dept. ServicePhone (888)-337-8600 x 3Web www.festoolusa.com
ccarrolladams said:
brucebo said:
The question is whether their "regular" MDF in Germany is the same as MDF from Home Depot. I'm not disputing your finding, the official Festool page also calls it "MDF tabletop". However, MFT top feels harder than MDF I'm used to when trying to poke it with fingernail. Again, I have no real data on that, just subjective impression.
TheSergeant
Member
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- Nov 14, 2015
- Messages
- 103
I purchased the Festool 20mm bit but wasn't happy with how sloppy the fit was with my parf and precision dogs. I ended up just using a freud flush trim bit and duplicating my MFT3. On a whim I ordered a 20mm generic forstner bit from china off of amazon for like $5 shipped. I was pleasantly surprised by the quality and sharpness of the bit. The size of the holes is actually spot on perfect. Maybe a hair tighter than the MFT even. I made a jig to keep the bit vertical and will just use a hand drill. I haven't made another MFT top yet but will in the next few weeks.
Here's a link:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SAZ27EO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Here's a link:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SAZ27EO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Michael Kellough said:
Sorry Mike, my earlier reply to this was botched for some reason.
I JUST got finished rebuilding them:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/new-(cncd)-box-beam-workbench-with-festool-holy-system!/
TheSergeant said:
In the development of the Parf Guide System it was essential to create a cutter that would be a perfect match for the Veritas Parf Dogs. Axminster have achieved this and it is very much a part of the PGS. They cutter is available on its own as is a Centrotec ended version.
Peter
