Festool 20mm boring bit vs CMT 20mm straight bit - a demo

[jandreas]

Festool uses a denser version of MDF called HDF, which in their case is custom made for them.

Thanks for the info!  I just bought a 4x8 of HDF for $78USD which I will drill & route into an extra large MFT sometime next week.

 

[fritter63]

Here's my take on the simple box beam workbench with 20 mm holes. I made the 6" (2 taller than the previous ones) for better strength and less back pain .

The 20mm festool bit was awesome.

All domino joinery...a lot of them. 1/2" ply got sides, 3/4 maple 13 ply for top.

Will be two when finished.

 

[Yukonal]

Your six foot long portable workbench is a great idea. I would also like to make two units.
Would you please indicate the height and width you used.
Thank you.
Alex

 

[fritter63]

Your six foot long portable workbench is a great idea. I would also like to make two units.
Would you please indicate the height and width you used.
Thank you.
Alex

They're actually 8 foot long. 12" wide, 6 3/4" deep.

About to rebuild with the following changes:

- no internal partitions (they get in the way of the clamps )
- bottom skin instead, large openings on side like Ron Paulks design.
- will still have one side with 20 mm holes
- top laminated with Formica for resistance to glue , water, finishes
- holes now 3 rows at 32 mm spacing, maybe 4.

 

[PreferrablyWood]

Interesting idea with the box beam MFT Yukonal, I also like that you discovered that you  needed to make some changes to the original, and shared that information here!

 

[krisberden]

I've tried the Festool 20 mm bit as well on MDF but it caused a lot of burning. Is there a max speed limit you should use for it?
Grtz,
Kris

 

[micknc]

Are LDO and LBO different names for LDF - low density fiberboard? 

 

[micknc]

I've never understood the comments about MDF not being suitable for structural purposes.  Relative to some materials, yes, but vs many others, it's great.  I made a simple MDF computer workstation using nothing more than glue and screws (including into edge grain) 20 years ago.  I still use it everyday for hours with $$$ worth of computer equipment sitting on it.  I've used MDF for shop cabinets, jigs and fixtures with zero failures for years and years. 

 

[greymann]

When I built my top I found a compromise that worked well for me.

I had a slightly undersized half inch shank 25/32 straight bit from Whiteside that I used to hog out most of the hole.  I set the depth to just shy of the MDF thickness.  Then I used the 20mm Festool bit to finish.

I started trying this because I was concerned about using an 8mm shank to drill hundreds of holes in the MDF.  While it takes two passes to accomplish I believe it will greatly extend the life of the boreing bit.

Dick Perry

 

[Michael Kellough]

Your six foot long portable workbench is a great idea. I would also like to make two units.
Would you please indicate the height and width you used.
Thank you.
Alex

They're actually 8 foot long. 12" wide, 6 3/4" deep.

About to rebuild with the following changes:

- no internal partitions (they get in the way of the clamps )
- bottom skin instead, large openings on side like Ron Paulks design.
- will still have one side with 20 mm holes
- top laminated with Formica for resistance to glue , water, finishes
- holes now 3 rows at 32 mm spacing, maybe 4.

Almost 2 years ago you considered changing your beam bench specs.

Did you change and if so how do you like it now?

 

[fritter63]

Your six foot long portable workbench is a great idea. I would also like to make two units.
Would you please indicate the height and width you used.
Thank you.
Alex

[embarassed]

I have not got around to doing it. Thought I would get it done when I had a couple weeks "between gigs" last month, but so far that CNC machine (for guitar building) has been sucking up all my free time (finally over that hump), so will get to it soon.

They're actually 8 foot long. 12" wide, 6 3/4" deep.

About to rebuild with the following changes:

- no internal partitions (they get in the way of the clamps )
- bottom skin instead, large openings on side like Ron Paulks design.
- will still have one side with 20 mm holes
- top laminated with Formica for resistance to glue , water, finishes
- holes now 3 rows at 32 mm spacing, maybe 4.

Almost 2 years ago you considered changing your beam bench specs.

Did you change and if so how do you like it now?

 

[ear3]

Lol. Getting a kick out of the catalogue of logical fallacies linked to earlier in the thread.

 

[JimD]

I used a Freud 20mm bit to make my workbench and additional worksurface.  On the bench, with a 3/4 plywood top, I used a spiral upcut bit to plunge 1/2 holes first.  The Freud then brought the hole to 20mm pretty easily.  There is a little chipout on the lower surface but I do not consider that to be significant.  No burning.  On the other worksurface, with a 1/2 plywood top, I just used the Freud.  It worked but there was some burning and it was significantly harder to plunge.  But the holes work fine. 

MDF is structurally much weaker than plywood but that doesn't mean it has no strength.  It is also very consistent.  It tends to sag when unsupported but it doesn't typically warp.  Plywood warps but is more resistant to sag.  I hate the dust from MDF so I don't use it a lot but both are useful.  MDF is also not a good choice if it might get wet.  Plywood with exterior glue is pretty moisture resistant. 

When I want something cheaper than plywood for something that needs to support weight, I usually use waferboard.  It isn't nice to work with but is closer to plywood in strength.  You certainly need to cover the edge. 

 

[brucebo]

STOP the MYTH 

I'm not sure where it started, but I hear many Festool owner's have come to believe MFT tops are made of  "HDF" or some other "special" material.  They are plain old MDF; that's not a bad thing. I have yet to hear a reason why HDF would create a superior top surface.  It would be more abrasive to bits & blades, less forgiving to your work (denting & scratching) and more difficult/expensive to replace.  I contacted Festool customer support to verify this and their response was:

Hello,[/size]Thank you for contacting Festool. The tops of the MFT tables are all simple MDF tops that are not Hard Density Fiberboard or treated in any way.Best Regards,_________________________Festool USATooltechnic Systems, LLC400 N. Enterprise Blvd.Lebanon, IN 46052Title        Product and Applications Specialist Dept.Dept.      ServicePhone    (888)-337-8600 x 3Web        www.festoolusa.com

Interesting test. Thank you.
I thought ply was less stable than MDF. Are you using ply for a work bench top?
//Michael

Festool uses a denser version of MDF called HDF, which in their case is custom made for them.

My cutting table does not need to be especially stable, so I use 19mm cabinet-grade plywood which for one reason or another was not attractive enough to use for cabinets we sell. I consider this to be a sacrificial surface, so stability is not inportant to me. On the other hand, I find my saw blades stay sharp longer cutting into plywood as opposed to MDF or HDF. On my CNC nested routers I use LBO, mostly because the machines can pull enough vacuum through it to hold the actual work in place. Sometime the task on a CNC router cuts through the work. LDO works for me because it does not dull the tips of the router bits as fast as plywood or MDF, but those would not work anyway because they block the vacuum action.

 

[Svar]

STOP the MYTH 

I'm not sure where it started, but I hear many Festool owner's have come to believe MFT tops are made of  "HDF" or some other "special" material.  They are plain old MDF; that's not a bad thing. I have yet to hear a reason why HDF would create a superior top surface.  It would be more abrasive to bits & blades, less forgiving to your work (denting & scratching) and more difficult/expensive to replace.  I contacted Festool customer support to verify this and their response was:

Hello,[/size]Thank you for contacting Festool. The tops of the MFT tables are all simple MDF tops that are not Hard Density Fiberboard or treated in any way.Best Regards,_________________________Festool USATooltechnic Systems, LLC400 N. Enterprise Blvd.Lebanon, IN 46052Title        Product and Applications Specialist Dept.Dept.      ServicePhone    (888)-337-8600 x 3Web        www.festoolusa.com

The question is whether their "regular" MDF in Germany is the same as MDF from Home Depot. I'm not disputing your finding, the official Festool page also calls it "MDF tabletop". However, MFT top feels harder than MDF I'm used to when trying to poke it with fingernail. Again, I have no real data on that, just subjective impression.

 

[TheSergeant]

I purchased the Festool 20mm bit but wasn't happy with how sloppy the fit was with my parf and precision dogs.  I ended up just using a freud flush trim bit and duplicating my MFT3.  On a whim I ordered a 20mm generic forstner bit from china off of amazon for like $5 shipped.  I was pleasantly surprised by the quality and sharpness of the bit.  The size of the holes is actually spot on perfect.  Maybe a hair tighter than the MFT even.  I made a jig to keep the bit vertical and will just use a hand drill.  I haven't made another MFT top yet but will in the next few weeks. 

Here's a link:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SAZ27EO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[fritter63]

Almost 2 years ago you considered changing your beam bench specs.

Did you change and if so how do you like it now?

Sorry Mike, my earlier reply to this was botched for some reason.

I JUST got finished rebuilding them:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/new-(cncd)-box-beam-workbench-with-festool-holy-system!/

 

[Stone Message]

I purchased the Festool 20mm bit but wasn't happy with how sloppy the fit was with my parf and precision dogs.  I ended up just using a freud flush trim bit and duplicating my MFT3.  On a whim I ordered a 20mm generic forstner bit from china off of amazon for like $5 shipped.  I was pleasantly surprised by the quality and sharpness of the bit.  The size of the holes is actually spot on perfect.  Maybe a hair tighter than the MFT even.  I made a jig to keep the bit vertical and will just use a hand drill.  I haven't made another MFT top yet but will in the next few weeks. 

Here's a link:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SAZ27EO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

In the development of the Parf Guide System it was essential to create a cutter that would be a perfect match for the Veritas Parf Dogs. Axminster have achieved this and it is very much a part of the PGS. They cutter is available on its own as is a Centrotec ended version.

Peter