Festool cordless screwdriver.

[dollar bill]

Greetings fellow Festoolers. I am contemplating purchasing a Festool cordless drill. My uses will be mostly screwing/unscrewing/drilling with a brad point bit. I already have a hammer drill of a different brand and I use my drill press for Fortsner bits and circle cutters. Here are my questions:

1) Will a CXS/TXS suffice?
2) What is the difference between a CXS and TXS? I see the CXS has a bar/handle in the front. What is the purpose of this?
3) Is there a better choice for the tasks I will be doing?

 

[squall_line]

Greetings fellow Festoolers. I am contemplating purchasing a Festool cordless drill. My uses will be mostly screwing/unscrewing/drilling with a brad point bit. I already have a hammer drill of a different brand and I use my drill press for Fortsner bits and circle cutters. Here are my questions:

1) Will a CXS/TXS suffice?
2) What is the difference between a CXS and TXS? I see the CXS has a bar/handle in the front. What is the purpose of this?
3) Is there a better choice for the tasks I will be doing?

You won't find too many people on here who would steer you away from the CXS as an assembly tool unless you're already invested in another platform's 12V or 14V system.  I bought one last year around this time and I've loved it from the word "go".

CXS vs. TXS difference is in the grip shape.  I love the CXS, personally, because I can "palm" it, and feel like I have much more precise control because it's more an extension of my hand. I trigger mine with my middle finger.

If you have a retailer nearby that has them in stock, they're worth getting your hands on to see how they feel/fit.  If you watch some of the Festool Live videos (or really any videos about using the CXS), you'll see how the technique is a bit different than a typical T-handle drill.

 

[4nthony]

Everything [member=75217]squall_line[/member] said and more. The CXS is probably my most used tool simply because it feels so good in the hand, is lightweight with great ergonomics, and it's very well balanced.

Not sure if this makes sense, but my grip is higher on the handle than this picture shows:

I use mine for assembly and light to medium drilling. I also love the Centrotec system and wish I hadn't invested so heavily in other standard bits (Torx, allen, etc).

 

[yetihunter]

Buy a t18 or a c18 if you want Festool.  If you want a small 12v drill/driver, don’t have high expectations for the CXS/TXS. 

 

[Spandex]

Buy a t18 or a c18 if you want Festool.  If you want a small 12v drill/driver, don’t have high expectations for the CXS/TXS.

Why do you think a CXS wouldn’t live up to their expectations?

Yes, there are loads of 12v drill/drivers out there, and many of them will have higher specs in various departments, but tool choice shouldn’t be treated like a competition. For example, I don’t need to own the drill with the highest torque, I need a drill with enough torque to do the jobs I want to do.

For me, the CXS does everything I require from a compact assembly drill/driver, and allows me to easily swap chucks between it and my other Festool drills. The fact that it offers a level of control not far off a hand screwdriver is an added bonus.

 

[mino]

Buy a t18 or a c18 if you want Festool.  If you want a small 12v drill/driver, don’t have high expectations for the CXS/TXS.

Disagree here.

The CXS is the benchmark for gentle/install drill driver. No other really comes close for gentle work. One can get more powerful 12V drivers. But there is none as smooth as the CSX on the market.

C18/T18 are too big/heavy as assembly tools and too weak as main cordless drills. They are generalists. Being such they are the worst thing one can buy if having no other drill.

I have a C12 with the small 3-cell 1.5 AH battery. It is basically the lightest you can get a C/T series to and it is STILL too heavy for assembly work.
My DRC 18/4 is twice as strong as a C18, and yet is is STILL on the edge on the "raw power" side. (TPC/TDC are better here)

As a C12, DRC 18/4 user (CXS on a buying list for above reasons):

If you have NO OTHER drill, and want Festool, then I would get the new TPC 18/4 as your "DRILL". The high 3600 rpm speed is irreplaceable once you get used to it and it *can* be used for install work.

After that, I would get the CXS for the gentle/install work.

That said. Economically:
A 18V or 40V "raw-power" Makita/Dewalt/Millwaukee drill combined with Festool CXS for gentle work is a much more cost effective setup.

I would go for any of the C/T 18 series only after I had a raw-power drill at hand. Be it a TPC/TDC or some other brand. Otherwise you will end up using the C/T "generalist" drills also for heavy work they are not really designed for.

Reg. CXS versus TXS and C vs. T:

The "C" type is MUCH more practical in the CXS size than in the full C18 size and vice versa. So for the install drill, recommend CXS while for the bigger drill, TPC or T18 would be my path.
That a C18 is unwieldy for you does not mean CXS will be and that a T style works for you on a big drill does not mean it will work on a small one. If unsure, do test at your local dealer.

My 2 cents.

 

[Birdhunter]

I have way too many drills, but if I had to narrow down to only two, I'd keep the CSX or TSX and the T18. The CSX and TSX are controllable enough to do delicate work and strong enough to do surprisingly tough work. I tend to prefer the T drills over the C drills.

 

[blues]

My uses will be mostly screwing/unscrewing/drilling with a brad point bit. I already have a hammer drill of a different brand and I use my drill press for Fortsner bits and circle cutters. Here are my questions:

1) Will a CXS/TXS suffice?
2) What is the difference between a CXS and TXS? I see the CXS has a bar/handle in the front. What is the purpose of this?
3) Is there a better choice for the tasks I will be doing?

If you already have a drill... Then, what you need is an impact. In my opinion, it's the most used tool when it comes to screwing/unscrewing.. and that it seems to be your primary need. And if you already did not know, an impact has rotary hammering action to drive the screw in.
Hands down.. The best impact tool you can buy is the Milwaukee surge (not the TID 18). They have a 12V and an 18V version. One can feather the trigger and be as gentle as you would like it to be and go all in and put monster bolts in without breaking a sweat. And while doing all this, it is very quiet. Between the 12v and 18v Surge.. i prefer the 18v since the stem is thin (battery is in the bottom) and less effort to hold the tool while the 12v has the battery in the handle making it a little thick for my liking. This is one tool I reach for all the time and puts everything else out there to shame.
I do have the CSX as well. It is nothing but a powered screw driver with a clutch (drill with less power). It is not an impact. Yes, one can install screws and also drill using the provided attachments. It's very handy. So it is like a lightweight do it all. Some like to use it all the time and can't live without it. I like it too.. But it is something I can live without since I have other drills and the Surge. What I can't live without is the Surge and will pick up another one in a heartbeat if I should lose mine. Between the CSX and TSX, it's just the shape.. It all depends on personal preference. One is not better than the other. The only time when a csx wins over the surge is when i have to put a screw in at an odd angle. Else, it's the surge every single time. Also, keep in mind that CSX uses a brushed motor from the 19th century.
So if you already have a drill... go with an impact, and you will have it all.

 

[Cheese]

With a hammer drill and a drill press you seem to have solutions for the large sized stuff. Sounds like what you need is something to cover the smaller stuff. What size brad point bits are you planing on using? 

My go-to cordless drill is a CSX. It's amazingly powerful for its size. Small, light, compact it's my favorite to use. The only issue I have with the CSX is that for small drill bits under 1/8" in diameter, the 1200 RPM is too slow.

For more serious work I have several Milwaukee M18's that I like.

 

[mino]

Also, keep in mind that CSX uses a brushed motor from the 19th century.

You wrote a valuable post yet ended it with this.

Being brushed and brushless has nothing to do with being good/bad or better/worse. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. As always in life, nothing is free. The only real advantage of being brushless for a tool like the CXS is energy efficiency - allowing the battery to last more. Which is a non-issue in practice.

When/if a brushless CXS comes, we can expect it to have a bit more power and be a bit (single % bit) lighter. That is about it. I.e. nothing qualitative. The only other reason, not needing to replace the brushes, is a non-reason as people casually go for a decade with their brushed CXSes as daily drivers.

So if you already have a drill... go with an impact, and you will have it all.

First, OP said he has a corded impact drill. A most likely heavy unwieldy variety at that. That is no replacement for a cordless drill driver.

Also, here you are wrong. An impact can take the role of a drill driver in carpentry and some other "construction" or
"rough" cabinetry work. But not in the area of precise/gentle work that is cabinetry and (higher) end furniture installs which is the market for the C/TXS series.

It is like comparing a sports car to a lorry. If a job is a good fit for a rough/raw power tool like an impact then CXS has indeed no place around such a job and vice versa.

If one does not have an impact, and already has a drill driver. Then it is indeed a good idea to get an impact to go along the drill driver. But an impact cannot do all the jobs of a drill driver, so is never a replacement. It is a more specialist tool.

But that is not the OP predicament here.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

I'll jump on the party with an affirmative about the CSX...my favorite and likely most used Festool tool. In fact, I bought a second one for assembly work so one can do the drilling and the other can do the driving without changing out the business end. Lightweight, comfortable and surprisingly powerful. It's no slouch or toy, despite the lower voltage battery setup.

Honestly, I also use it for a healthy percentage of home improvement work, too, because it's more comfortable than holding up a heavier 15/18/20v tool over head, etc.

 

[bwehman]

I just got my CXS two days ago and already fear for my poor T18 that won't get nearly as much use anymore. I own nearly everything Festool has had available for the last five years, yet it took this long to add the CXS. Doing it all over again, this should've been the first Festool I bought.

 

[mino]

I just got my CXS two days ago and already fear for my poor T18 that won't get nearly as much use anymore. I own nearly everything Festool has had available for the last five years, yet it took this long to add the CXS. Doing it all over again, this should've been the first Festool I bought.

This.

I got a great deal on my C12 in a complete set with all the chucks. So went for it thinking I can get by with it - being the lightest in the "big" C series - avoiding the one-tool-deep CXS battery platform. Oh how wrong I was!

Having also the 4-speed DRC, I already know the moment I get the CXS it will become my goto. With the C12 relegated to Jacobs use as the "second drill". After the DRC in max speed.

 

[FestitaMakool]

I think of what arguing going on here, that Mino has some very valid points.
A smaller drill like CXS/TXS is the way to go. Being brushed: A quality brushed motor will have better low end torque and therefore more control.

4nthony has a point regards to how you grip a C-handle Festool; it need to be gripped like outlined with your pointy finger pointing forward on the other side pulling the trigger with the middle finger. This means the drill bit is inline with your hand and lower arm, you get a straight natural push.
Also as Mino pointed out: The C18 is too heavy for finer/lighter work, holding with only one hand like the CXS.

I have a CXS, C18 - still my Makita 12V CXT is the goto drills, even before the CXS for daily use.
(I like the CXS for very controlled work though)

A T-Style handle 12V/10.8V are generally enough. Next step is usually not the T18 or C18, but something like the PDC or TPC or similar.

I like to hold my T-style 12V drills upside down whenever I can, this makes my palm and lower arm in-line with the drill bit. The CXS I find is not so comfortable in this position, the C18 is very good at this. So a TXS will probably be better at this too.

Stay away from impact unless you really need it for the job at hand, there’s just too much noise. Seems like you are doing things that fits a 10,8/12V drill like a glove.

And the most important thing about the CXS/TXS: You have all the control you can wish for in setting a screw head at exactly the depth you want without the clutch…
It’s like a 4x4 diesel powered off-roader in low range, smooth and controlled.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I will concur with the rest here. The CXS is a fantastically handy tool. I use it for all hardware fasteners and for the occasional tight spot with the right-angle head.
I have the big 18v Makita for heavy duty use and matching impact driver for wood screws, but still reach for the CSX in many situations where is just works better.

Impact drivers are great tools, I wouldn't want to be without one, but it is hardly a universal drill/driver solution. It takes a bit of skill to use an impact driver with small fasteners.

 

[sancho57]

First lemme bring this out in the open, I dont own a CSX.

The reason, when I was looking to buy one, I found out they werent brushless. So i stepped up to a C12 bc they were brushless. I also own a C18 which is brushless.

Now that the new CSX is brushless Id buy one in a heart beat. Its  good all around drill.  Especially since you alreay own a hammer drill and impact.

 

[SoonerFan]

[member=44353]Dollar Bill[/member] I agree with many here on FOG….get a CXS.  It’s a fantastic drill.  I purchased one along with an Centrotec Installers kit about 7 years ago.  Been happy everyday since then. Even though the batteries won’t work on another tool and the motor has brushes, I have never had a single regret other than waiting as long as I did to purchase.  For 75% - 85% of my drilling needs it is 100% the right tool.

 

[batmanimal]

Would anyone have insight on which Festool driver is most comparable to the Milwaukee M12 Fuel Surge? This is my very favorite driver. The noise reduction is impressive. It is not the fastest but it is plenty powerful, and yet the lowest setting does not have too much torque (the non-Surge M12 driver is too much for finer jobs, IMHO)

Does Festool have a “quiet” impact like that, and how does it compare? I am something of a drill collector and it’s been a while since I’ve added to the collection.

 

[mino]

First lemme bring this out in the open, I dont own a CSX.

The reason, when I was looking to buy one, I found out they werent brushless. So i stepped up to a C12 bc they were brushless. I also own a C18 which is brushless.

Now that the new CSX is brushless Id buy one in a heart beat. Its  good all around drill.  Especially since you alreay own a hammer drill and impact.

There is no "new brushless CXS". And there may never be.

As FestitaMakool noted, it is very, very difficult to make a brushless tool with smooth, non-jittery, torque at the very low speeds. This is inherent in how multi-phase brushless motors work.

Festool may eventually decide to "go crazy" for marketing purposes and try to make a brushless CXS with something like 6 phases on the motor to try to approach the smoothness of the brushed one. But even if they do that (will cost them a lot of $ to make such a super-custom motor) the "new" tool would likely not be as smooth as the currect one on the lower speed range. Physics is a b*** as they say over here.

 

[Coen]

The ever returning Brushed / brushless debate...

I don't own a CXS either. Length, weight, battery platform...