festool cordless tools pointless?

[DeformedTree]

yeah, sometimes old school holeshooter/hammer drill is the answer, and if you got a lot of holes, the cord is just fine to deal with, verses running out of battery every 2 and a 1/2 holes.

 

[mino]

I love my cordless drill, but it spins at 1,375 rpm (no load) and probably 1,000 to 1,100 under load drilling 8mm holes. 

My old corded drill spins at 3,500 rpm and does not appear to slow down at all drilling 8mm holes.

I use my corded drill for dowel holes and for pocket holes.  Not only does it go faster (much faster if you are drilling for a lot of dowels), the holes are cleaner.  Invariably I have access to power when I use those tools and they tend to be used at a specific workstation. 

So don't throw out those 110 volt power tools.  They do some jobs better than the battery-powered tools.

You do want to look at the DRC/PDC and more so the newer TDC/TPC line with their 4-speed gearboxes and 3800/3600 top speed.

That said, common 8mm HSS drill bits are best used around 1000 rpm. They tend to burn or are "grinding" instead of "cutting" the material at higher speed. Love my DRC!

 

[rst]

I sell, service and install commercial steel and aluminum entrances, the only corded tool I use on site is Milwaukee's SDS Max 1 3/4" rotary hammer drill.  I don't use it for hole drilling but rather for it's impressive chiseling function...great for removing existing grout filled steel frames.  I use my M18 1 9/16" SDS for lighter drilling and chiseling.  The remainder of my van based tools are Milwaukee, Fein and Metabo.

 

[jeh]

Just like ethernet versus WiFi it is plugged in if it can be. I choose to use dust extraction whenever possible so having a cordless tool connected to vacuum hose is of limited benefit. That said, I admit that I do have some yellow and red cordless tools: mitre saw, table saw, jigsaw, blower, router for when power is not readily available and I do not want to run long cords. They are used outside where dust collection is not a concern.

 

[Coen]

My old corded drill spins at 3,500 rpm and does not appear to slow down at all drilling 8mm holes.

Nor when you let go of the trigger.

That annoys me the most about corded drills. Drill some 4mm holes in wood and spent longer waiting for the machine stopping to spin the drillbit than actually drilling..

 

[mino]

Nor when you let go of the trigger.

That annoys me the most about corded drills. Drill some 4mm holes in wood and spent longer waiting for the machine stopping to spin the drillbit than actually drilling..

Nothing to do with the drill being corded. Everything to do with the drill not having a brake.

The better corded drills tend to have a brake. Just is not common. The same way there are cordless drills without a brake but they are not common.

Most cordless drills are really no drills but compromise drill-drivers and the brake is essential for the driver function where you do not want your bit spinning between screws ... The DRC/PDC line being more of an exception and it needed a special gearbox to boot.

 

[Coen]

Yes, true. But as you; in general corded drills dont have a brake, and in general cordless ones do. It's also true that in general the cordless drills have much better low-RPM torque.

 

[grbmds]

I'd say that, if you are using the tools in a workshop and do not need them to be mobile, there are limited usefulness for cordless tools. Tools like drill/drivers and maybe jigsaws can be very useful in the shop but, for the most part, I find that I don't need cordless in the shop. Since I would hook up my sander to my CT in the shop anyway, I don't think a cordless tool would be a good use of my money. If I were a remodeler, carpenter, builder, etc., I think the cordless versions of the tools would be very useful in certain situations; being more mobile around the worksite. I only own a cordless drill/driver and impact driver since that is the only tool that was economical and useful for me in my shop.

 

[mino]

I'd say that, if you are using the tools in a workshop and do not need them to be mobile, there are limited usefulness for cordless tools. Tools like drill/drivers and maybe jigsaws can be very useful in the shop but, for the most part, I find that I don't need cordless in the shop. Since I would hook up my sander to my CT in the shop anyway, I don't think a cordless tool would be a good use of my money. If I were a remodeler, carpenter, builder, etc., I think the cordless versions of the tools would be very useful in certain situations; being more mobile around the worksite. I only own a cordless drill/driver and impact driver since that is the only tool that was economical and useful for me in my shop.

I think a big part of the cordless market is hobby users where the versatility rules and "the battery platform cost" is not high as they can get by with one battery set for a lot of tools, not using them at the same time normally.

If I have only one tool, I want it cordless but it must be as powerful a corded to cover both the roles. Also a hobby user would have short "here and there" use cases where pulling down the extension cord can be a chore. Lastly, my jobs are usually not big enough to drain a battery and if they are, it is no issue to wait for it to charge and/or continue the next day.

Not so simple for a professional user with deadlines so there the trade-off can go with the (lighter) corded tools as the battery change/charge/size is more of a hassle than the cord at often a fixed workstation is.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Not so simple for a professional user with deadlines so there the trade-off can go with the (lighter) corded tools as the battery change/charge/size is more of a hassle than the cord at often a fixed workstation is.

Dunno where you get your info, but whenever I work with professionals they have a whole battery of chargers running all day to keep their cordless tools running.

 

[mino]

Not so simple for a professional user with deadlines so there the trade-off can go with the (lighter) corded tools as the battery change/charge/size is more of a hassle than the cord at often a fixed workstation is.

Dunno where you get your info, but whenever I work with professionals they have a whole line up of chargers running all day to keep their cordless tools working.

Not so simple in the sense you PAY for going cordless as a Pro - by needing the pile of charges and batteries and caring for them as you mention.

This hassle with chargers means there are real advantages to corded tools in a fixed shop setting for professional use so is not as slam-dunk decision is a for a hobby user.

A hobbyist can get by with a single charger/batteries set for tens of tools and not be limited by it. So his economical calculus is different and corded tools have much less appeal even for shop use in the hobby world.

As Festool sells to both worlds, a cordless lineup is a must even if only (high end) hobbyists bought them. That is why we see some tools are no longer offered in corded versions even like the (Qua)drills or now the HK55 going away. They simply do not sell.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Not so simple for a professional user with deadlines so there the trade-off can go with the (lighter) corded tools as the battery change/charge/size is more of a hassle than the cord at often a fixed workstation is.

Dunno where you get your info, but whenever I work with professionals they have a whole line up of chargers running all day to keep their cordless tools working.

Not so simple in the sense you PAY for going cordless as a Pro - by needing the pile of charges and batteries and caring for them as you mention.

This hassle with chargers means there are real advantages to corded tools in a fixed shop setting for professional use so is not as slam-dunk decision is a for a hobby user.

A hobbyist can get by with a single charger/batteries set for tens of tools and not be limited by it. So his economical calculus is different and corded tools have much less appeal even for shop use in the hobby world.

As Festool sells to both worlds, a cordless lineup is a must even if only (high end) hobbyists bought them. That is why we see some tools are no longer offered in corded versions even like the (Qua)drills or now the HK55 going away. They simply do not sell.

It is simple: unless a tool requires lots of power, professionals go for cordless.

 

[mino]

It is simple: unless a tool requires lots of power, professionals go for cordless.

Nope.
Not in a general way. Maybe in some trades.

But even in carpentry, why would you get a TSC if it will be dedicated to a cross-cut station with a permanent Vac hose connection. You would not. Even if that station is not used all day and a TSC would do fine performance/bat life wise. it is not worth the battery maintenance and weight hassle.

Why would you get an air sander if you can have an electric one, or even a cordless one? Ergonomics/weight is more important there in some use cases making it worth it.

Why would you use a cordless driver if you have dedicated driver station with overhanging air drill designed to make it as light and as easy to use as possible. You would not.

A low-volume general carpenter, installer, custom furniture maker or a combination will go cordless as it makes sense in many cases even in a (small) shop. But the same guy will move to corded once he grows and starts dedicating tools to work stations, has employees etc.

On the other hand, the benefits of corded tools for a hobby user are overshadowed by the flexibility to setup anywhere. So is a slam dunk choice for most cases. With professional users it depends and there is IMO no universal answer.

In the same way air tools are still with us in the professional setting while in hobby use they are getting extinct fast.

 

[Christopher Fitch]

Here's my 2 cents (more like 1 cent). I'm a serious DIYer and experienced novice furniture maker so my experiences are a bit different.

For the most part, I try to avoid cordless tools for a few reasons. Historically I've had poor experiences with cordless tools with one major exception. Many years ago, I picked up a Dewalt Cordless Drill - I liked it (and it was nice not having to plugin a drill) but within less than a year, the batteries showed signs of reduced performance. They would not hold a charge for long and the drill was clearly not receiving full voltage. Off to the store to pick up a new one and surprise! They no longer carried batteries that were compatible. I looked online and a new one cost almost the full price of the set I bought and was hard to find. A new set cost only a bit more. At that point, I was pretty annoyed - I really didn't think tossing a perfectly working drill for a new set was something I wanted to do. After doing some reading, I found this was apparently a pretty normal situation.

I got the batteries rebuilt and they were good for a couple of months but then they started showing poor performance signs again. At this point, I decided to go a different route so I picked up a Festool C12. Certainly pricey compared to main stream offerings but I really liked it. After about 6 months, the T15+3 came out and I switched to that (with Lithium batteries). The T15+3 has been just great. It's still working with over 10 years of use. I really got my money's worth out of it. I am beginning to notice that the batteries are slowly not working as well as they used to but it has not affected my work patterns. At the time I switched, there were not really any other cordless tools out there (for any brands) that could compare to their corded versions.  I have tried other cordless offerings over the years with a mix of success. I picked up a 12V Makita Impact Driver that has been awesome. I upgraded to an 18V version about 14 months ago. I also have a small 10.8V combo Makita drill/impact kit and it's worked fine too. I picked up a cordless Makita circular saw and it sucked and I pushed it off on an unsuspecting relative. I have a little cordless Black and Decker small jigsaw that I got for $20. It's quite under-powered but the battery has lasted for a while and it uses standard jigsaw blades.

Due to my experiences, I have really avoided cordless tools and it's worked out well for me. Other than certain situations, I really don't mind having corded tools. Any corded tool I have works great in the shop and the cords don't get in the way most of the time. That said, there are times where it would be nice to have cordless versions (usually when working outside or in certain parts of the house).

Right now I have a grand total of 8 cordless tools right now:
T18+3 (I just replaced my ten-year old T15+3 - hope the T18 lasts as well as the T15)
Makita 10.8 V Drill/Impact Kit (it's been decent for small jobs in the house)
Makita 18V Impact Driver (love this)
Makita 18V Impact Wrench
Milwaukee M12 Ratchet
Milwaukee M12 sander/polisher
B&D Mini cordless jigsaw (under powered - really it's a toy but there are certain spots where it's been handy).

And I have an AGC 18 on the way.

Most of my purchases are focused on replacing certain corded items or air tools for primary use. The cordless drills/impact drivers are obvious. I picked up the impact wrench and ratchet because I was tired of dragging out the compressor when doing car work. I picked the Makita because I can use the extra battery from the impact driver. I cannot imagine getting rid of my Makita impact wrench. It's REALLY nice and I use the heck out of it for car work. One of the best buys I ever made. The M12 Milwaukee ratchet is fine. I picked up the sander/polisher for doing certain car tasks. I don't use the ratchet much except in cases where I have to remove alot of fasteners.

If I had to reduce the list above to truly essential tools, it would end up:
- T18
- Makita Impact Driver
- Makita Impact Wrench

The rest I can easily live without.

I have considered the following:
- Cordless Makita compact router (using my 18V batteries)
- Some cordless jigsaw
- Cordless Circ. Saw

But I really don't see the point (for me). I'm happy with my TS 55 and I have a small corded Rigid for more carpentry focused work. I have a Bosch Colt and an old school Bosch 1587 that, while old, has served me very well. Also, I really don't like having more than a couple of battery platforms. You have to have chargers for each (and batteries). Plus different brands excel with different tools. I'm considering dumping my 10.8V Makitas to get down to three platforms.

I can see why shops would stick with corded tools - though I'm not a pro, I have a small separate shop and I see no real reason to go cordless. I have a dust collection all over and the cord (in a cord wrap) is not a big deal. With all this said, I can see the lure of cordless tools and things are certainly a great deal better in regards to battery performance and long-term compatibility.

Well, that's enough yapping about this....

 

[semenza]

          It is simple ............................ it is both.

Whether it is hobby, DIY, or professional.  Depends on the user, work, situation.

Seth

 

[demographic]

I suspect tool sales tell a far more accurate story of how many people use corded or cordless tools than this thread ever will.
There are people who simply seem unable to comprehend that other peoples tool usage is much different than their own.

Personally I'm a  site carpenter and as much as I can I use cordless tools. For me they're  more versatile and can still be used hooked upto an extractor as well as outside on a formwork job or up a scaffold without faffing about with cables.
Every one of my workmates is slowly changing over to more cordless tools as our tools need replacing and that genie won't be going back in the bottle.
De-Walt are now making a cordless class M extractor and although I have a Festool CTM25 Cleantec with all the bells and whistles it's not much use on a lot of sites because the access is bad or the power is intermittent at best.
That De-Walt cordless class M is looking like a better deal every day.

 

[DeformedTree]

Well,  Seth's answer is the right one, but no one has fun with that.  [smile]

I would add a persons "history" a big factor.  Those who bought tools that ended up with abandon'd battery systems tend to be much more careful about going cordless.  If you had tools from the major players in their early system that are no more, it will always be in your mind.

I own a lot of battery tools, but they are also part of what is probably the biggest cordless system out there.  The cost of most the tools means if in the future it goes away, and someday even the biggest battery system will get replaced with something else, the price hit won't be that bad.  At the same time, that system has some tools that cost thousands of dollars (they just launched on that is over 9000 USD, but even more conventional stuff can be 2000-6000USD), you don't want to get stuck with that when the system goes away.

Things have been stable around 18V tool systems for a while.  But as  Cordless chop saws, table saws, routers, chainsaws, yard tools, etc become a thing, there will be a bigger system out there by companies, then folks are going to start to worry how long the stuff they have, has.

Ideal world, there would be a couple size batteries, all built to a universal standard, so most the concerns go away. But that isn't happening. You will have small players get together to pretend they are some standard battery system, but it's not going to change the reality that the big players will have their own setups.

Festools cordless stuff isn't pointless, but it will always suffer in that Festool will never have the full array of tools of a big red or big yellow. That will always make the buying decision more complicated for professionals or individuals no matter how they use them verses other brands. There is no one answer for what folks will do/want.

 

[Michael Kellough]

I love my cordless drill, but it spins at 1,375 rpm (no load) and probably 1,000 to 1,100 under load drilling 8mm holes. 

My old corded drill spins at 3,500 rpm and does not appear to slow down at all drilling 8mm holes.

I use my corded drill for dowel holes and for pocket holes.  Not only does it go faster (much faster if you are drilling for a lot of dowels), the holes are cleaner.  Invariably I have access to power when I use those tools and they tend to be used at a specific workstation. 

So don't throw out those 110 volt power tools.  They do some jobs better than the battery-powered tools.

I keep a Dewalt corded drill with my Kreg pocket hole kit. It spins at 2500 rpm which is a good match for the bit and at 8 amps it has enough power to keep up the speed, in softwood at least. But, unless I time trigger release bit extraction just right it’s a drag having to wait for the motor to come to a stop before I can put down the drill and reposition the work.

I keep using it because it starts up the vac but I’m about ready to move on to a big cordless drill that can stand upright on it’s battery pack. The Dewalt has a belt loop but I’m not putting that spinning bit anywhere near my belt. Maybe I can make a wire loop rig that can be clamped to the bench...

 

[DeformedTree]

The Dewalt has a belt loop but I’m not putting that spinning bit anywhere near my belt.

You and the ER doc can have a great story to tell.

 

[semenza]

I love my cordless drill, but it spins at 1,375 rpm (no load) and probably 1,000 to 1,100 under load drilling 8mm holes. 

My old corded drill spins at 3,500 rpm and does not appear to slow down at all drilling 8mm holes.

I use my corded drill for dowel holes and for pocket holes.  Not only does it go faster (much faster if you are drilling for a lot of dowels), the holes are cleaner.  Invariably I have access to power when I use those tools and they tend to be used at a specific workstation. 

So don't throw out those 110 volt power tools.  They do some jobs better than the battery-powered tools.

I keep a Dewalt corded drill with my Kreg pocket hole kit. It spins at 2500 rpm which is a good match for the bit and at 8 amps it has enough power to keep up the speed, in softwood at least. But, unless I time trigger release bit extraction just right it’s a drag having to wait for the motor to come to a stop before I can put down the drill and reposition the work.

I keep using it because it starts up the vac but I’m about ready to move on to a big cordless drill that can stand upright on it’s battery pack. The Dewalt has a belt loop but I’m not putting that spinning bit anywhere near my belt. Maybe I can make a wire loop rig that can be clamped to the bench...

I am finding the PDC18 to be excellent on pocket holes. I just leave the vac turned on so that it isn't cycling on / off every 10 - 20 seconds between holes.

Seth

Seth