festool cordless tools pointless?

[monkeyclimber]

I've been looking into buying into festool for awhile (currently bosch user) and I've seen festool do cordless tools which should always be used with dust extraction..  saws, sanders etc.

so seeing has festool has the proprietary "Plug it" connection so the vacuum hose and cable can be as one.. what exactly is the point in a cordless tool from festool? makes sense with other brands that don't have this feature (plug it) as you have to change cables.

thoughts? I'm I missing something? or are the cordless festools indeed pointless? [blink]

 

[six-point socket II]

I'm not sure I'm getting the point of your post?

Festool offers various tools, corded and cordless, various dust extraction hoses including those that are paired with a plug it cable - but usually the extractors come with regular hoses without the added plug it cable. Dust extractors also come with a regular outlet to connect any tool you want to, and have bluetooth functionality so you can pair the battery of your Festool cordless tool with the vacuum and use auto-start. On top of that, Festool offers a bluetooth remote that can be attached to the dust extractor's hose and start/stop the vacuum as well. Which is great for non-Festool cordless tools, and countless dust-extraction accessories.

So what makes you think Festool cordless tools are pointless? Is this a question related to attaching the hose, thinking if there's a hose there could be as well a cable?

From my experience, you still profit greatly from a cordless tool even when connected to a dust extraction hose. YMMV.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[aloysius]

Cordless tools have come a long way over the last 40 odd years.

But they still have a long way to go, too.  Dust extraction is but one aspect of their inadequacies that are at last being tentatively addressed.

There will come a time when the majority of hand-held power tools will be cordless, integrated into system architecture, and capable of actually performing in a manner that truly rivals their mains powered alternatives.  That time is still some way off, it appears.

Manufacturers from the far east appear to lead in development & adoption of these new technologies.

 

[DeformedTree]

Your question is really multi-part.

One of the major reasons for Festool stuff is dust collection, other European makes do similar for a lot of things, but your American brands tend not to, it's a major reason for me to buy Festool tools over similar tools from other brands.  So yes, with that, you have a hose attached to them.  Not sure there is any tool Festool makes without dust collection that I have much interest in.

So yes, once you hook a hose to it, you are connected, a battery tool looses a lot of its benefit at that point. But it is one less thing to fight. Managing both cord and hose at the same time can be a real PITA. Also things like sanders do have dust bags, not that they are something I find very useful.

So it comes back to how deep are you in the system or tools.  I like lots of folks have a ton of Milkwaukee M18 tools.  It makes buying even the most oddball M18 too a no brainer.  If you are someone who is going to go all in on Festool and have some of their tools in battery form, then getting battery versions of everything starts to make sense.

If I was starting over, and were to find festool had all the tools I need, I might go that route, but they simply are not going to have all the tools of other systems.  So then it means buying Festool Battery tools will be much more limited, which then you really have to make a choice on if it is worth it.

Some folks really value the Festool drills, so if you are all ready buying some of those, and have the batteries, then getting tools in battery versions that they offer makes sense. Yes you still have a hose, but now with the bluetooth batteries, things work seamless.

You really need to decide if you want to buy into a systems batteries, once you do, then battery versions of everything makes a lot of sense. Of course there will always be the flip side that a lot of the corded tools are basically going to be bulletproof and last forever, they also cost less. So for tools you might not use a lot, corded is a great answer.

If I was using the tools every day, I don't think I would blink at going battery. Sanding with just the hose would be easier for sure.

 

[monkeyclimber]

I'm not sure I'm getting the point of your post?

Festool offers various tools, corded and cordless, various dust extraction hoses including those that are paired with a plug it cable - but usually the extractors come with regular hoses without the added plug it cable. Dust extractors also come with a regular outlet to connect any tool you want to, and have bluetooth functionality so you can pair the battery of your Festool cordless tool with the vacuum and use auto-start. On top of that, Festool offers a bluetooth remote that can be attached to the dust extractor's hose and start/stop the vacuum as well. Which is great for non-Festool cordless tools, and countless dust-extraction accessories.

So what makes you think Festool cordless tools are pointless? Is this a question related to attaching the hose, thinking if there's a hose there could be as well a cable?

From my experience, you still profit greatly from a cordless tool even when connected to a dust extraction hose. YMMV.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Hi Oliver,

my question is why would someone, lets say for example sake buy the cordless version of the ts55 when the corded version is quite a lot cheaper and has the same (if not more) mobility than the cordless version as the cable can be run in the vacuum hose's sleeve on the corded version..

I presume the cordless version is actually heavier? and less powerful?

does the Bluetooth do anything other than turn the vacuum on and off at tool start/stop?

 

[semenza]

Options.

    Some examples from my own site work -----

    I have a TSC55 (cordless) that goes to sites. I have power at sites about 100% of the time. But I make very few TS55 cuts on site. Sometimes one or two during an install. The dust bag collection on the saw is actually quite good. So in my case I generally can find a spot to lay out foam on the floor, possibly in an adjacent room or where ever to make that one saw cut. Having the cordless means I can just take the saw and go make the cut. without having to switch out tools or move the vac., or run a power cord.

    In the case of Vecturo not having the cord is just one less thing hanging up on you, or a piece of hardware, or under your knee, etc. when you have crawled into a cabinet to make some awkward cut to remove a piece or the like.

    Cordless sander is very nice when walking through a room or several rooms knocking off small nail or screw fill spots.

    In general sometimes it is just handy to be cordless with or without the vac hose.

Seth

 

[ben_r_]

Couldnt figure out a good answer for that very same question myself. So I dont own any Festool cordless tools

 

[PreferrablyWood]

I read about the pros and cons of cordless versus corded tools with interest. it's a good point about the mismatch of a cordless tool with dust extractor. I think if Festool offered a cordless dust extractor it would be a better match.

Another solution is of course having the dust collection bag on the tool like som sanders offer as an accessory and the TSC and HKC, not as good as an external extractor but workable.

Finally many operations can be performed with handtools which often don't generate as much dust if you need mobility, I'm thinking here planing, hand sanding with an ergonomic block small touch ups. using a rasp, chiseling, drilling in softwood with a cordless drill doesn't generate annoying dust either.

 

[AlexThePalex]

ROFL, people begged and screamed for cordless tools, and now they have them it's not good either?

Just accept we're not at once in a perfect world and in the mean time appreciate you get options.

 

[FestitaMakool]

Festool are indeed trying.. to satisfy even the most demanding of us.
If one can’t decide, there’s an obvious place to start with Festool:  [big grin]

Corded
Cordless
With dust bag
Without dust bag
With dust collector
Without dust collector:
[attachimg=1]
Sure, it can be used as a sanding block too.

 

[demographic]

Never worked on many building sites then eh?

 

[promark747]

[quote author=monkeyclimber]
I presume the cordless version is actually heavier? and less powerful?
[/quote]

I’ve seen many people say the cordless TSC55 is actually more powerful than the corded TS55.

I think the blade also stops faster (pretty much instantaneously) on the TSC.

 

[monkeyclimber]

ROFL, people begged and screamed for cordless tools, and now they have them it's not good either?

Just accept we're not at once in a perfect world and in the mean time appreciate you get options.

who did?

The point I was making was that tools that require dust extraction don't need to be cordless if its from Festool as their plug it cable makes connecting the tool just as fast as connecting the vacuum hose & faster than pairing Bluetooth battery's with a Bluetooth vacuum. (Cheaper/More Powerful/Less to go wrong) also

 

[FestitaMakool]

Never worked on many building sites then eh?

[wink] Exactly, but yes I have done a few. That’s why I chose Festool to my “private” building site.
There’s not many Festool products I would have brought to a site, but a HK saw, and a very few other Festool’s.

The kit on a building site would probably consist of Makita, Milwaukee, DeWalt and Metabo. Just as Rob Robillard in A Concord Carpenter have chosen. Most FT would have stayed in the shop.
As the kit would have been banged around, and therefore would have been of the more rough character to get the job done. FT has not its strength (and pricing) to compete very well, at least not over here) They’re more of a specialists or enthusiasts brand on sites. In a kitchen/cabinet shop and so forth, yes, very common.

 

[MaineShop]

I thought this was a great question topic Monkeyclimber. I have a lot of festools in the shop but most are corded for exactly the reason you are pointing out. I am almost always going to use them with dust collection so what is the point in getting a cordless since I am always gonna have to plug in the CT.

I also have some real doubts about their expanded offerings lately. I feel like if you really want a spot in the job trailer with cordless tools they have to greatly expand their offerings. In our jobsite trailer there are no longer any corded tools. The final hold out up until the last few years were always the table saw and the compressor. Now both Milwaukee and Dewalt have excellent cordless options in both of those cases and the spread of battery powered nailers had already lessened the compressor issue. The reality is battery platform. When you are building out jobsite tools you really need to try and stay within one or two battery platforms because when you are talking about having 30 or 40 tools in the trailer and several dozen batteries you are running all the time, you are not going to have 5 different battery platforms in that trailer.

The festool stuff is nice but without a broader range at least including more of the basic tools in cordless such as sawsalls, and trim nailers and such it is hard for them to really edge into being a top competitor.

Now that being said, I am really excited to see them finally pushing into the cordless market and if they keep going in that direction by adding more of the expansion type tools and specialty tools in cordless I will be a quick adopter because their tools always seem to be worth the added price over the competition. I just need more offerings to justify buying deep into their platform.

We have a tens of thousands in their tools in the shop and I have tried to dip in the new cordless platform where it made sense in the work flow. Our shop layout is segmented and we typically rip our sheet goods lengthwise in a different part of the shop then where the dust collectors are. So I picked up a cordless ts55  and a 9 ft rail just for that task that lives in that area and in that case it made sense and has worked good. But the real appeal of cordless is site work. And for heavy adoption at least in my experience they need to expand the line to get real adoption. They don't need all the trade specific but at least some of the stuff that almost all the other main brands have, especially the wood working focused ones. Things that come to mind are a sawsall, trim router, small miter saw, planer, Cordless dust collector, and maybe a trim nailer. If I see them push into some of this, especially the sawsall, I am placing orders.

 

[demographic]

Never worked on many building sites then eh?

[wink] Exactly, but yes I have done a few. That’s why I chose Festool to my “private” building site.
There’s not many Festool products I would have brought to a site, but a HK saw, and a very few other Festool’s.

The kit on a building site would probably consist of Makita, Milwaukee, DeWalt and Metabo. Just as Rob Robillard in A Concord Carpenter have chosen. Most FT would have stayed in the shop.
As the kit would have been banged around, and therefore would have been of the more rough character to get the job done. FT has not its strength (and pricing) to compete very well, at least not over here) They’re more of a specialists or enthusiasts brand on sites. In a kitchen/cabinet shop and so forth, yes, very common.

I don't know about anyone else but personally I'm not fussed about Festools offerings on the drill front and really couldnt care less about them.
However I find the HKC saw to be an excellent tool thats out the van almost every working day.
I have a a TS55 and hardly ever use it now I have the HKC.
That HKC gets properly used, up on a roof, doing concrete formwork, framing through to kitchens.
Sometimes I hook it upto an extractor (not having a cordless extractor is becoming increasingly annoying nowadays as the sites I'm on often have power thats intermittent at best) but most times when I'm working in a building the windows arent even in so its... well ventilated and I just use the dust bag on it.

Nowadays I basically don't want anything thats got a cord. I've been a self employed subcontractor for 17 years now and for me cordless is definitely the way forward.
Working on peoples homes is differennt and power is often more likely to be availible. I detest working in peoples homes though and would rather stick a fork in my eye.
Also we have to get ourcorded  tools PAT tested by an electrician every six or so months, this can cost money.
The cordless tools don't need it (although the chargers do but theres a LOT less chargers than tools) so cordless tools are less of a bother.

Its funny how many of us can only really see how we work and not realise how different circumstances change the methods of working.
Me I'm baffled at people who like those little 3Ah batteries because for me charging batteries is an effort and sometimes a charging point is a good distance away in an area where theft is an issue.
So I buy minimum 5Ah batteries so its less often.
Garage-wallahs are 10 feet away from a socket at most and love the lergonomics and light weight of those tools.
You couldn't give me one.

As I understand it the TSC is more powerful than the TS55 so they're not always giving up anything on power anyway.

 

[MaineShop]

Just a follow up, Festool needs to do a better job about bringing their whole catalog to the states. Bosch has the same problem and thats why you almost never see them on serious job sites here despite them making some really great tools.

Talking to folks that have worked in Europe and here one of the main differences in the US vs working in Europe is the space. It sounds like based on what I am hearing in Europe a lot of builders are constrained by space, often having to work out of vans or squeezing a lot of the tooling into cramped job sites. Vs here in the state many job sites I am on will usually have multiple large trailers camped at the jobs and usually most of the builders or general contractors will have large shops or yards where additional tools and equipment are stored and milling parts assembled or produced. All that space leads to an expectation of large tool inventories. Dewalt and milwaukee provide the depth of range for that. Even Ryobi dose. Festool needs to expand that range. I know they have tools that are not available in the states. If you want me to buy more of your stuff I wanna know there is more to buy, I only need so many drills and track saws.

 

[AlexThePalex]

ROFL, people begged and screamed for cordless tools, and now they have them it's not good either?

Just accept we're not at once in a perfect world and in the mean time appreciate you get options.

who did?

People. Like that guy over there and the guy behind him also.  Not sure about that third guy though. [tongue]

Jokes aside, there was a time Festool only had cordless drills and nothing more. Many people here on the forum wanted more from Festool and asked. If you read this thread, there are still more people who want even more options.

The point I was making was that tools that require dust extraction don't need to be cordless if its from Festool as their plug it cable makes connecting the tool just as fast as connecting the vacuum hose & faster than pairing Bluetooth battery's with a Bluetooth vacuum. (Cheaper/More Powerful/Less to go wrong) also

No tool requires dust extraction by definition. Sometimes dust is perfectly happy to fall on the ground instead of being sucked up in a dark hole.

And sometimes dust creating tools come with a dust bag so you can sort-of catch the dust. It is all about having options.

I am not a big user of cordless tools, I prefer them corded. Dusty tools are hooked up to my vac and most of the time I have a 220v socket around. Only my drills are cordless of course. Unless I need to hammer.

But I can see how you sometimes just want to do a quick job and just get the tool without having to go through a long preparation time.

Cordless is only going to get bigger.

 

[afish]

The only Festool I would care to see cordless is the MFK since its the only festool I have that doesnt get hooked to any type of dust control.  Unfortunately it still wouldnt be enough to get me to buy one since I wouldnt invest in a another battery platform for just one tool and Im already heavily invested in another and I hate having different batteries and chargers.   

 

[Oldwood]

I tend to agree about tools that need active dust collection not needing to be cordless.

If I was doing a lot of on site outdoor work I might consider a cordless track saw though.