Festool Countersink on steel?

[Vindingo]

has anyone used the Festool 492520 - Centrotec Pilotless Countersink, D2-8 on steel?

 

[AlexThePalex]

has anyone used the Festool 492520 - Centrotec Pilotless Countersink, D2-8 on steel?

Smart people haven't .....  [wink]

 

[Kev]

[thumbs up]

has anyone used the Festool 492520 - Centrotec Pilotless Countersink, D2-8 on steel?

Smart people haven't .....  [wink]

[thumbs up]

 

[GhostFist]

Some good comedy in the last couple of posts. love it [thumbs up]

 

[RONWEN]

has anyone used the Festool 492520 - Centrotec Pilotless Countersink, D2-8 on steel?

I would hope for the price the Festool countersinks are hardened -- Shane???.  M.A. Ford makes some pretty good ones (reasonably priced).

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=56&PMITEM=319-2603

 

[greg mann]

has anyone used the Festool 492520 - Centrotec Pilotless Countersink, D2-8 on steel?

I would hope for the price the Festool countersinks are hardened -- Shane???.  M.A. Ford makes some pretty good ones (reasonably priced).

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=56&PMITEM=319-2603

As Ron has pointed out, the design of the Centrotec countersinking tool is common to other brands used for chamfering/countersinking steel. You can do it, but don't expect it to work well on wood afterwards as you will have removed the nice keen edge necessary for clean burr free chamfers and countersinks in wood. I suppose if someone needed to do this on a regular basis they might be able to justify sacrificing a bit for that purpose. The trick would be keeping the speed low enough while still having enough torque to shave steel. It might be suitable for breaking the edge of a hole but creating a countersink for a flat head fastener in steel? Find a different tool like the Ford that Ron suggests.

 

[Vindingo]

I would hope for the price the Festool countersinks are hardened -- Shane???.  M.A. Ford makes some pretty good ones (reasonably priced).
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=56&PMITEM=319-2603

Thanks for the link.
That is kind of what I was getting at...  I know both the twist and brad points are HSS, but no mention of the countersink's material.  I like the stop collar on this so I am curious about its material as well.  

I think I will end up buying a microstop cage with a piloted countersink anyway to get the repeatability and accuracy I am after, but it would have been nice to use what I already own. 

 

As far as inexperience and ignorance masked by snarky comments, yeah, I guess that makes for good comedy.   :
 

 

[Vindingo]

As Ron has pointed out, the design of the Centrotec countersinking tool is common to other brands used for chamfering/countersinking steel. You can do it, but don't expect it to work well on wood afterwards as you will have removed the nice keen edge necessary for clean burr free chamfers and countersinks in wood. I suppose if someone needed to do this on a regular basis they might be able to justify sacrificing a bit for that purpose. The trick would be keeping the speed low enough while still having enough torque to shave steel. It might be suitable for breaking the edge of a hole but creating a countersink for a flat head fastener in steel? Find a different tool like the Ford that Ron suggests.

Thanks Greg, any opinions on the zero flute vs 5 flute cutter for 1/4" hot rolled steel plate. 1/8" - 3/32" diameter holes, countersunk for #6 screws (I think)

 

[RONWEN]

As Ron has pointed out, the design of the Centrotec countersinking tool is common to other brands used for chamfering/countersinking steel. You can do it, but don't expect it to work well on wood afterwards as you will have removed the nice keen edge necessary for clean burr free chamfers and countersinks in wood. I suppose if someone needed to do this on a regular basis they might be able to justify sacrificing a bit for that purpose. The trick would be keeping the speed low enough while still having enough torque to shave steel. It might be suitable for breaking the edge of a hole but creating a countersink for a flat head fastener in steel? Find a different tool like the Ford that Ron suggests.

Thanks Greg, any opinions on the zero flute vs 5 flute cutter for 1/4" hot rolled steel plate. 1/8" - 3/32" diameter holes, countersunk for #6 screws (I think)

The 5 flute (or multi flute) cutters obviously cut faster but also can tend to have a chatter problem in some cases.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Gentlemen, let's stay on topic and end the personal attacks. Play nice or leave. Thanks.

 

[greg mann]

As Ron has pointed out, the design of the Centrotec countersinking tool is common to other brands used for chamfering/countersinking steel. You can do it, but don't expect it to work well on wood afterwards as you will have removed the nice keen edge necessary for clean burr free chamfers and countersinks in wood. I suppose if someone needed to do this on a regular basis they might be able to justify sacrificing a bit for that purpose. The trick would be keeping the speed low enough while still having enough torque to shave steel. It might be suitable for breaking the edge of a hole but creating a countersink for a flat head fastener in steel? Find a different tool like the Ford that Ron suggests.

Thanks Greg, any opinions on the zero flute vs 5 flute cutter for 1/4" hot rolled steel plate. 1/8" - 3/32" diameter holes, countersunk for #6 screws (I think)

The 5 flute (or multi flute) cutters obviously cut faster but also can tend to have a chatter problem in some cases.

As usual, Ron is exactly on target. The contersinks designed in the manner of Festool's version are often referred to as 'chatterless' countersinks. If you want to get good results with a handheld drill use this type. The five fluters usually work best in a drill press or mill with the work clamped in place. Another important point: They also work best when they are positioned exactly centered over the hole, i.e., drill the hole, change to the countersink and use it before unclamping the stock. The zero-flute design has the added benefit of being self-centering. Get some commercially available versions, chuck them up in a regular chuck and try to keep your speed down. When they get dull you probably are best off replacing with new. Most countersinks are very difficult to re-sharpen well.

 

[RONWEN]

As Ron has pointed out, the design of the Centrotec countersinking tool is common to other brands used for chamfering/countersinking steel. You can do it, but don't expect it to work well on wood afterwards as you will have removed the nice keen edge necessary for clean burr free chamfers and countersinks in wood. I suppose if someone needed to do this on a regular basis they might be able to justify sacrificing a bit for that purpose. The trick would be keeping the speed low enough while still having enough torque to shave steel. It might be suitable for breaking the edge of a hole but creating a countersink for a flat head fastener in steel? Find a different tool like the Ford that Ron suggests.

Thanks Greg, any opinions on the zero flute vs 5 flute cutter for 1/4" hot rolled steel plate. 1/8" - 3/32" diameter holes, countersunk for #6 screws (I think)

The 5 flute (or multi flute) cutters obviously cut faster but also can tend to have a chatter problem in some cases.

As usual, Ron is exactly on target. The contersinks designed in the manner of Festool's version are often referred to as 'chatterless' countersinks. If you want to get good results with a handheld drill use this type. The five fluters usually work best in a drill press or mill with the work clamped in place. Another important point: They also work best when they are positioned exactly centered over the hole, i.e., drill the hole, change to the countersink and use it before unclamping the stock. The zero-flute design has the added benefit of being self-centering. Get some commercially available versions, chuck them up in a regular chuck and try to keep your speed down. When they get dull you probably are best off replacing with new. Most countersinks are very difficult to re-sharpen well.

Thanks Greg, my check is in the mail with your usual fee...  [big grin]  [big grin]  [big grin]  [big grin]

 

[greg mann]

As Ron has pointed out, the design of the Centrotec countersinking tool is common to other brands used for chamfering/countersinking steel. You can do it, but don't expect it to work well on wood afterwards as you will have removed the nice keen edge necessary for clean burr free chamfers and countersinks in wood. I suppose if someone needed to do this on a regular basis they might be able to justify sacrificing a bit for that purpose. The trick would be keeping the speed low enough while still having enough torque to shave steel. It might be suitable for breaking the edge of a hole but creating a countersink for a flat head fastener in steel? Find a different tool like the Ford that Ron suggests.

Thanks Greg, any opinions on the zero flute vs 5 flute cutter for 1/4" hot rolled steel plate. 1/8" - 3/32" diameter holes, countersunk for #6 screws (I think)

The 5 flute (or multi flute) cutters obviously cut faster but also can tend to have a chatter problem in some cases.

As usual, Ron is exactly on target. The contersinks designed in the manner of Festool's version are often referred to as 'chatterless' countersinks. If you want to get good results with a handheld drill use this type. The five fluters usually work best in a drill press or mill with the work clamped in place. Another important point: They also work best when they are positioned exactly centered over the hole, i.e., drill the hole, change to the countersink and use it before unclamping the stock. The zero-flute design has the added benefit of being self-centering. Get some commercially available versions, chuck them up in a regular chuck and try to keep your speed down. When they get dull you probably are best off replacing with new. Most countersinks are very difficult to re-sharpen well.

Thanks Greg, my check is in the mail with your usual fee...  [big grin]  [big grin]  [big grin]  [big grin]

So besides complementing you did I add anything of value? [unsure]

 

[RONWEN]

As Ron has pointed out, the design of the Centrotec countersinking tool is common to other brands used for chamfering/countersinking steel. You can do it, but don't expect it to work well on wood afterwards as you will have removed the nice keen edge necessary for clean burr free chamfers and countersinks in wood. I suppose if someone needed to do this on a regular basis they might be able to justify sacrificing a bit for that purpose. The trick would be keeping the speed low enough while still having enough torque to shave steel. It might be suitable for breaking the edge of a hole but creating a countersink for a flat head fastener in steel? Find a different tool like the Ford that Ron suggests.

Thanks Greg, any opinions on the zero flute vs 5 flute cutter for 1/4" hot rolled steel plate. 1/8" - 3/32" diameter holes, countersunk for #6 screws (I think)

The 5 flute (or multi flute) cutters obviously cut faster but also can tend to have a chatter problem in some cases.

As usual, Ron is exactly on target. The contersinks designed in the manner of Festool's version are often referred to as 'chatterless' countersinks. If you want to get good results with a handheld drill use this type. The five fluters usually work best in a drill press or mill with the work clamped in place. Another important point: They also work best when they are positioned exactly centered over the hole, i.e., drill the hole, change to the countersink and use it before unclamping the stock. The zero-flute design has the added benefit of being self-centering. Get some commercially available versions, chuck them up in a regular chuck and try to keep your speed down. When they get dull you probably are best off replacing with new. Most countersinks are very difficult to re-sharpen well.

Thanks Greg, my check is in the mail with your usual fee...  [big grin]  [big grin]  [big grin]  [big grin]

So besides complementing you did I add anything of value? [unsure]

I didn't read any further than the first sentence...  [embarassed] 

Actually yes you did, your point of handheld vs. machine spindle as well as using low rpm's is important to bring out. 

 

[Tinker]

I have not hand drilled a countersink bit for any of my shop work unless it was not going to show.
I have counter sunk on rough construction work (scaffolding/concrete forms/laminating beams/steel braces, etc) For that type of work, i have just chucked in a regular twist drill large enough for the bolt head to sink into the wood or metal. 
For any woodworking (shop projects) I do use a countersink bit, but chuck into the bench drill press so i have better control of depth.
Tinker

 

[Michael Kellough]

From McMaster.

You might be able to use this combo drill with the depth stop you pictured...
can't find the name to look it up.

Whatever bit you use, use cutting oil while drilling.

 

[Vindingo]

Drilled and countersunk about 50 holes in 1/4" cold rolled steel today. 

The piece was to large to wrestle around on my drill press, so I did it free hand.  For my application, there was no contest for the 5 flute vs 0 flute. The 5 flute bit is HSS, purchased brand new today. I found the HSS zero flute chatterless bit in the bottom of my grandfather's tool chest, used and at least 20 years old.  The 0 flute/ chatterless bit was far superior in cut quality, speed and accuracy.  It threw off long shavings like butter.  The 5 flute made chips, and took considerably longer to use with an inferior cut quality.     

Considering the price, I am not sure how the Festool bit could not be HSS (for that price it should be carbide), but I guess we are left to assume that it isn't?

A zero flute Weldon industrial grade HSS countersink, made in USA, sans centrotec, is about $10.   

 

 

[awil66]

Hello Vindingo. What is your source for the rolled steel in Jersey? I'm thinking of putting 150 square feet down for a kitchen floor, much thinner than yours of course. Saw it in the Valcucine showroom in Manhattan and it looks pretty good.
Thanks,  Alan

 

[Vindingo]

Hello Vindingo. What is your source for the rolled steel in Jersey? I'm thinking of putting 150 square feet down for a kitchen floor, much thinner than yours of course. Saw it in the Valcucine showroom in Manhattan and it looks pretty good.
Thanks,  Alan

in Newark http://www.alliedsteel.com/

Alan,

That sounds like an interesting floor.  Was it slippery at all?  How was it fastened? 

 

[awil66]

Hey Vindingo, thanks for the link. The floor was not slippery. I believe it was just a wax finish on top of the steel. It would require an application every week or so i guess, depending on traffic. Not an expert in this area. But it looked great.
They had it installed on a raised floor/ stage to make a kitchen, but it had just screws on the corners and along the edges if i remember correctly. None in the field. Probablysome adhesive underneath.