Festool CSC SYS 50 - Setting up and demo

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Hi Everyone

I really like to idea of a precision compact table saw and have longed to get the CSC Sys since it was launched. I have made an initial video and will make more as I use the machine. Here is the link to the video:


Peter
 
Curse you, [member=11196]Peter Parfitt[/member]. I've spent three decades convincing myself that I don't need a small table saw for site work. This characteristically honest-but-simple review video (along with several others) is making my credit card twitch violently.
 
woodbutcherbower said:
Curse you, [member=11196]Peter Parfitt[/member]. I've spent three decades convincing myself that I don't need a small table saw for site work. This characteristically honest-but-simple review video (along with several others) is making my credit card twitch violently.

There are several Festool tools that amaze me - the big Domino, the OF2200 and now this. I love it and I am still only on day 2 of owning it. I have no reservations about the saw and absolutely no hesitation recommending it.

Cheers.

Peter
 
Great video Peter as always, I'm right there with you on the Domino and OF2200, absolutely amazing tools, and I'm pretty sure I really, really need this saw as well! ;-)
 
Hi Peter,
I make cutting boards and small boxes  from hardwoods, maple walnut  etc . And Zi require accuracy - could it be an addition?

Regards,
Paul
 
Hi Paul, I too make a lot of quite small pieces which require great accuracy. I think that the CSC Sys will allow me to make better box joints and even lap joints for boxes. So, to answer your question - yes.

Previously I had the CMS TS, the table saw based on the TS55 on the CMS frame. With that setup I had always to take my rebate work to the router table to tidy up the jointing faces. However, the mains powered TS55 was excellent at ripping down 50 mm oak boards but I do not do that very often.

For large ripping or resawing work I use the bandsaw and tidy up on the planer/thicknesser.

Peter
 
More importantly when we will see this in the US. with the Saw Stop technology built into it. Should be fairly simple to get a certified.
 
Peter Parfitt said:
Hi Paul, I too make a lot of quite small pieces which require great accuracy. I think that the CSC Sys will allow me to make better box joints and even lap joints for boxes. So, to answer your question - yes.

Previously I had the CMS TS, the table saw based on the TS55 on the CMS frame. With that setup I had always to take my rebate work to the router table to tidy up the jointing faces. However, the mains powered TS55 was excellent at ripping down 50 mm oak boards but I do not do that very often.

For large ripping or resawing work I use the bandsaw and tidy up on the planer/thicknesser.

Peter

Thank you Peter. Appreciated
 
JimH2 said:
More importantly when we will see this in the US. with the Saw Stop technology built into it. Should be fairly simple to get a certified.

My understanding has always been that SawStop requires a ground/earth connection to detect skin contact.  You would either need to ship and use the tool with a rod pounded into the ground or otherwise connect the module to earth, which means you're tethered to something again.

Also, I'm chuckling at the idea of transporting a 6' copper rod and sledge hammer to a job site on a daily basis...
 
I had a message, I think from Festool US, to say that this saw is likely to hit the North American market soon. I have been using the saw for several weeks now and I am still absolutely delighted.

Peter
 
Hi Peter.  Indeed September 6th is the release date and I am delighted that mine will begin its journey to Tennessee that day.  Here’s to cool September days in the garage to have some play and build time.

Love your video and my wife is a big fan of how tidy you keep your shop! (I compare poorly as she often points out!)
 
Hey Peter,

thanks for the video.

Some questions:
How is extraction without extraction (just the bag or, if outside, the outside)?
And how much runtime can be expected from a set of batteries?

Gregor
 
Peter Parfitt said:
I had a message, I think from Festool US, to say that this saw is likely to hit the North American market soon. I have been using the saw for several weeks now and I am still absolutely delighted.

Peter
I received notice on Wednesday my card had been charged for the pre-order I made in early August. Expected to ship to me on 9/6. Your review sold me.
 
Gregor said:
Hey Peter,

thanks for the video.

Some questions:
How is extraction without extraction (just the bag or, if outside, the outside)?
And how much runtime can be expected from a set of batteries?

Gregor

Hi Gregor

I am away from base at the moment (in The Netherlands) so am unable to answer precisely. I have used it for all sorts in the regular routine in the shop and the battery life is good. Not tried the little bag but judging by the rate of ejection of dust when I forgot to put the hose in place I would guess that it would be very good.

Peter
 
I concur with Peter, I was using my newly-acquired saw outside yesterday, not using a vac or the dust bag. It might as well have been a sawdust cannon. I expect the bag would work pretty well (until it fills).
 
After seeing one at Woodcraft I decided to purchase it there. The box is ultra heavy duty and unlike any box in terms of strength I have seen, but the thought of the saw being rough-handled by FedEx or UPS made me buy it locally versus using my regular vendor. I have used it for a few hours and am satisfied with it. Fence is solid and locks down very tightly. Motor mechanism for height and angle are good.

Some points:
  • Outfeed support on the stand is too far below the table. Needs a little bit more height to avoid dipping at the end of the cut on long pieces. The distance from the back of the blade is small so there is no way to fix other than adding some type of spacer on top of the outfeed.

  • The handle of the table would be very useful if it was long enough and shaped appropriately to act as an in feed support. I have not given it any thought as to if the handle could be built for this or if it would even work.
    Would have been very nice to have the fence motorized or geared like the Dewalt, but the folding table probably ruled both out.
  • If you can stomach the price and live with the smaller size I would recommend giving it a go.
  • I am completely satisfied with it.

 
I am going to add a few more points to my notes about the saw after two days use:
  • Batteries go fairly quickly and as others have said battery #1 goes first. I am thinking #1 runs the display maybe as well as powering the saw. I will be buying another set to fill the empty spots in the battery systainer that came with the saw.
  • An auto turn off after a set amount of inactivity is a feature that can be added. If my first point is true then no reason to run the battery down waiting to be used. The boot up time is maybe 10 seconds.
  • The throat plate is black but it would be better if it was red as a reminder. The Part # is 10727068 and it is called a Table Top insert in EKAT and it is not currently for sale yet (no price).
  • A zero clearance insert would be a great addition.
  • I have adapted to the small table size and fence. Tapping it to move a hair is a step down from the geared saws.
  • No buyers remorse other than getting over the price.
 
woodbutcherbower said:
Curse you, [member=11196]Peter Parfitt[/member]. I've spent three decades convincing myself that I don't need a small table saw for site work. This characteristically honest-but-simple review video (along with several others) is making my credit card twitch violently.

I second the shout out to Peter P and his always measured, honest tool reviews.  I too have been caught up in the extraordinary hype and delayed Canadian market release of the CSC SYS 50, in part because of the professed precision of the saw but also because it would fit very nicely into the limited space available in my shop.  I make drums, which, among other things, requires bevel cuts at very precise angles -- 9, 12.5, 15 degrees, for example.  Deviations > 0.1 degree on any cut spells disaster as the drum won't fit properly together, resulting in $50+ of wasted hardwood lumber.  So my attraction to the digital capacity of the CSC SYS 50 is a given.  Portability, apart from within the workshop, is unimportant.

I finally got a hands on opportunity with the saw, and I now have mixed feelings.  For one, I tested the accuracy of the bevel angles with a very good digital angle gauge and found the angles the saw produced to be out by 0.1 degree.  I was also not that impressed with the fence.  The 2-sided gripping mechanism resulted in the fence locking in out of parallel.  For me, rip cuts even slightly out of parallel are as bad as inaccurate angles.  I don't know if these results stem from the demo saw not being properly set up in the first place or not.  I am also concerned that there is no SawStop tech on the saw when earlier Festool models did include it, and like many other reviewers, I would have liked a corded option, but I gather that's not impossible as Festool had cord adapters for their cordless drills.  So that's part one of my dilemma.

Part 2 is the SawStop option.  The same showroom had both the SawStop contractor professional cabinet saw set up.  Apart from the safety tech, the build on both saws is impressive.  Cast iron tables, a very accurate mechanical bevel mechanism that locks very solidly in place and an extraordinarily accurate T-glide fence in perfect parallel.  I began to wonder what would happen with the CSC SYS 50 if the screen or servo motors were to fail.  Failure of either would mean no mechanical options or means of measuring available.  The saw would be an expensive brick.  I'm reminded of a friend's comment that it would be a challenge for anyone in modern culture to find the words "durable" and "electronics" used in the same sentence.  But then there are the order of magnitude differences between the 2 options: < 50lbs vs > 450lbs; and, a tidy manageable foot print vs obliterate my entire shop with its bulk.  Interestingly, although the SawStop would end up being more expensive, the cost for both options is not that far apart.

So that's my quandary.  Yes, I could try to do a massive shop reno that 'might' accommodate the massive SawStop offering and it's near flawless accuracy, or hope that the Festool saw will in fact be as accurate as they claim and somehow work out.  But right now, I'm stuck and hoped other group members might have insights or experiences with either or both of these manufacturers that could help.  Apologies for the long rant.
 
Hi Chris

I wonder whether the 0.1 degree error on the bevel cut is constant across its range so that it might be possible to take it into account when setting?

I agree that the fence is very poor, so much so that Festool's instructions tell you to check it for square.

One other issue that I am investigating (and hoping to find a solution) is the sliding table is not coplanar with the top. Someone (above I think) has mentioned this and mine is out as well. I will report back when I have found a solution.

Peter
 
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