Festool CSC SYS 50 - Setting up and demo

[ChrisGlendaleDums]

Hi Chris

I wonder whether the 0.1 degree error on the bevel cut is constant across its range so that it might be possible to take it into account when setting?

I agree that the fence is very poor, so much so that Festool's instructions tell you to check it for square.

One other issue that I am investigating (and hoping to find a solution) is the sliding table is not coplanar with the top. Someone (above I think) has mentioned this and mine is out as well. I will report back when I have found a solution.

Peter

Peter

Thanks for responding.  Yes, it is possible the 0.1 degree is constant, in which case I could compensate for it, but I didn't have the opportunity or the tools in the Festool demo to check the blade for square or to make fine adjustments.  Many others were waiting to put hands on the saw.  There is another demo and a national wood show coming up, so I will have more opportunity to make targeted investigations.  I wasn't aware of the co-planar issue.  Not encouraged by that, and it's beginning to make cast iron behemoths look more attractive.  I'm assuming in the longer term, like the TS55 track saw, that there will be a CSC SYS 50 upgrade to address its initial issues, but I'm not getting any younger and I need a good table saw now.

Thanks as always for your diligence and perspective.  Look forward to your future insights.

Chris

 

[Michael Kellough]

Usually, by design, a sliding table is slightly above the fixed table.

 

[Xere]

Yes Festool confirmed me that sliding table must be 0.2mm higher than the fixed table of the saw. Regarding the 0.3° angle which I had on the sliding table comparing to the saw, you can compensate by recalibrating with sliding table as reference instead of calibration with table as reference, but this needs to be done every time you change your cut. Anyway, now I fixed it?

 

[ElectricFeet]

Hi Chris

I wonder whether the 0.1 degree error on the bevel cut is constant across its range so that it might be possible to take it into account when setting?

I agree that the fence is very poor, so much so that Festool's instructions tell you to check it for square.

One other issue that I am investigating (and hoping to find a solution) is the sliding table is not coplanar with the top. Someone (above I think) has mentioned this and mine is out as well. I will report back when I have found a solution.

Peter

This is now solved (by [member=72072]woodferret[/member] ) in this thread:https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/festool-csc-sys-50-tablesaw/60/

 

[jeh]

I second the shout out to Peter P and his always measured, honest tool reviews.  I too have been caught up in the extraordinary hype and delayed Canadian market release of the CSC SYS 50, in part because of the professed precision of the saw but also because it would fit very nicely into the limited space available in my shop.  I make drums, which, among other things, requires bevel cuts at very precise angles -- 9, 12.5, 15 degrees, for example.  Deviations > 0.1 degree on any cut spells disaster as the drum won't fit properly together, resulting in $50+ of wasted hardwood lumber.  So my attraction to the digital capacity of the CSC SYS 50 is a given.  Portability, apart from within the workshop, is unimportant.

Part 2 is the SawStop option.  The same showroom had both the SawStop contractor professional cabinet saw set up.
So that's my quandary.  Yes, I could try to do a massive shop reno that 'might' accommodate the massive SawStop offering and it's near flawless accuracy, or hope that the Festool saw will in fact be as accurate as they claim and somehow work out.  But right now, I'm stuck and hoped other group members might have insights or experiences with either or both of these manufacturers that could help.  Apologies for the long rant.

I abbreviated the quoting. Give the SawStop CTS a go. Has the safety device and is reasonably sized. I'd saw the CSC SYS 50 is going to be more precise than the SawStop and if space is somewhat of a concern you can move it from your workbench or build/modify a workbench to accommodate the saw taking advantage of the extra workbench top.

Can you fill us in on how you are getting your materials cut to get better than .1 degree of accuracy now (no table saw)? There is no chance a track saw can do that given the other variables including pressure on the saw against the track, blade deflection, track deflection to name three. Also I would think the bigger the saw the more likely other errors are going to be introduced given that everything is bigger (top, fence, and blade) and requires even more dialing in. The first concern would be getting a truly flat top on any saw purchased and I believe with cast iron that is harder, but I am not certain of this.

 

[Stone Message]

[member=64013]ElectricFeet[/member]  - Hi Andrea, Many thanks for the info.  Peter

 

[woodferret]

Hi Chris

I wonder whether the 0.1 degree error on the bevel cut is constant across its range so that it might be possible to take it into account when setting?
...

This is now solved (by [member=72072]woodferret[/member] ) in this thread:https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/festool-csc-sys-50-tablesaw/60/

It's only solved IF your sliding bed top is flat or within 0.1mm deviation.  Any higher amount of dip will exceed the 0.1 degree precision of the blade tilt mechanism. 

It basically means that if your bed is that warped (mine is) then any variation in length on the piece of wood can cause the setting to be anywhere between 0.5deg to 0.0deg off, with the worst being closest to the blade.  No amount of bed adjustment will fix that.

QA is iffy at this point to have passed my bed, and so seems the customer support response so far of adjust the bed.  We'll see what they do when they actually see it in person.

 

[ChrisGlendaleDums]

I second the shout out to Peter P and his always measured, honest tool reviews.  I too have been caught up in the extraordinary hype and delayed Canadian market release of the CSC SYS 50, in part because of the professed precision of the saw but also because it would fit very nicely into the limited space available in my shop.  I make drums, which, among other things, requires bevel cuts at very precise angles -- 9, 12.5, 15 degrees, for example.  Deviations > 0.1 degree on any cut spells disaster as the drum won't fit properly together, resulting in $50+ of wasted hardwood lumber.  So my attraction to the digital capacity of the CSC SYS 50 is a given.  Portability, apart from within the workshop, is unimportant.

Part 2 is the SawStop option.  The same showroom had both the SawStop contractor professional cabinet saw set up.
So that's my quandary.  Yes, I could try to do a massive shop reno that 'might' accommodate the massive SawStop offering and it's near flawless accuracy, or hope that the Festool saw will in fact be as accurate as they claim and somehow work out.  But right now, I'm stuck and hoped other group members might have insights or experiences with either or both of these manufacturers that could help.  Apologies for the long rant.

I abbreviated the quoting. Give the SawStop CTS a go. Has the safety device and is reasonably sized. I'd saw the CSC SYS 50 is going to be more precise than the SawStop and if space is somewhat of a concern you can move it from your workbench or build/modify a workbench to accommodate the saw taking advantage of the extra workbench top.

Can you fill us in on how you are getting your materials cut to get better than .1 degree of accuracy now (no table saw)? There is no chance a track saw can do that given the other variables including pressure on the saw against the track, blade deflection, track deflection to name three. Also I would think the bigger the saw the more likely other errors are going to be introduced given that everything is bigger (top, fence, and blade) and requires even more dialing in. The first concern would be getting a truly flat top on any saw purchased and I believe with cast iron that is harder, but I am not certain of this.

Jim, sorry for the delay in responding.  Yes, I have looked at the Sawstop CTS but have heard about stability issues with the fence and bevel mechanism.  Have not ruled it out, but hoping I can resolve my perceived issues with the CSC SYS 50 as it's the prefect size for my shop.  As I mentioned, the Sawstop Pro cabinet saw seems to work just fine, but . . . .  Yes, agree bevel precision on a track saw could be problematic because of the issues you mention.  Most of the cuts I make are beveled rip cuts at specific angles (9, 12.5 or 15 degrees) to both edges of approx 60" of hard wood stock, resulting in a product between 2.5" and 3" wide depending on the angle used.  The product is then cut into between 5"-7" lengths depending on the depth of the drum.  To date, I have been using a Laguna 14BX bandsaw with multiple jigs and feather boards as support.  The saw is very accurate and the table is almost perfectly flat, although it's the replacement Laguna sent me for the first one, which was not flat.  I use a digital angle gauge to ensure the table is angled correctly and a hack I found elsewhere on the net to fine tune that angle involving an adjustable machine bolt under the outfeed side of the table.  This process works most of the time as long as I spend about an hour or so setting it up, check an adjust it after each cut, and be sure I am using a very sharp blade.  But it's very time consuming and sometimes fails, ergo my interest in the CSC SYS 50 and its digital accuracy. 

 

[7sec153]

If you spend $2k for a saw like this you really have no choice to lie to us and say you like it.

 

[patrickpv]

I don't fully understand who is the target customer for this saw.
Since it's small and battery powered, it seems like it would be for jobsite application.
Except in things like finish carpentry, people use a more rough saw that might be able to run all day like a Dewalt? (ie. not battery powered, or at least not only?)

I don't understand the added value of this saw, as for things like furniture, one would usually make it in a shop and have a cabinet saw, and for a jobsite, I don't see it being too useful either.

I can see it being useful for a hobbyist who had very little space and makes models, that kind of small stuff. Except it costs $2K.

I went to my local store, looked at it, and the owner told me, yeah we got a couple of them, they're not selling, we don't understand who the target demographic it.

I'm not trolling, I'd really want to learn. I'm in the US so maybe European habits are different for which table saw is used for what.

 

[Stone Message]

I don't fully understand who is the target customer for this saw.
Since it's small and battery powered, it seems like it would be for jobsite application.
Except in things like finish carpentry, people use a more rough saw that might be able to run all day like a Dewalt? (ie. not battery powered, or at least not only?)

I don't understand the added value of this saw, as for things like furniture, one would usually make it in a shop and have a cabinet saw, and for a jobsite, I don't see it being too useful either.

I can see it being useful for a hobbyist who had very little space and makes models, that kind of small stuff. Except it costs $2K.

I went to my local store, looked at it, and the owner told me, yeah we got a couple of them, they're not selling, we don't understand who the target demographic it.

I'm not trolling, I'd really want to learn. I'm in the US so maybe European habits are different for which table saw is used for what.

Hi Patrick,

I understand what you mean but there will be many exceptions. I had to visit someone to make some alterations to a rather smart set of kitchen drawers. I needed accuracy and also rebating capability. The CSC Sys was excellent and saved me doing all of the work back in the workshop (which was just as well as I nearly made a bishup with one set of measurements).

I am not earning a living from my woodwork but am a serious amateur. I do not have the space for a large cabinet saw (nor the money) but I do need great accuracy. The CSC Sys gives me that and is particularly good for rebate/trenching work.

Peter

 

[woodferret]

I don't fully understand who is the target customer...

I don't understand the added value of this saw, as for things like furniture, one would usually make it in a shop and have a cabinet saw, and for a jobsite, I don't see it being too useful either.

I can see it being useful for a hobbyist who had very little space and makes models, that kind of small stuff. Except it costs $2K.

Models are better served with a sled on a fixed table.  The elevated slider is not precise enough smaller than things you can clamp with a fritz/franz jig. 

The diff I guess is jobsite sizes and oldness.  US jobsites are typically quite spacious and one can setup a dewalt/wakee outside or in a 'room' that's larger than the size of most EU homes.  There's also the issue of room squareness.  Anything with drywall, while not 90 perfect, is far more perfect than stone+plaster.  US construction you can note the rare wack job, and assume scribe fillers will take care of 99% of the work.  Floors are fun too

These exist in the new world too, but they're the really old builds and  restoration homes.  For them, the CSC is a good fit too.