Festool Hatred

[John H]

Festool enthusiasts can also sometimes overzealously promote the brand in woodworking discussions. Unfortunately for those who have no personal experience with the system, and who don't have the finances to purchase a minimal chunk of the system, even if just for the test drive, the enthusiastic recommendations of the Festool system can come across as rubbing salt in a wound.  [sad].

+1

My major complaint is all the 'fanatics' - Festool, Apple, SnapOn, Etc

Festool makes great tools - but not everything they make is "great" - people don't need to defend every negative comment....

I prefer my Mirka Ceros over my DTS or other Festool Sander.  I refuse to buy a Domino and then use it like a biscuit jointer - I will just use my Lamello Top 20 or Jessem Paralign.  But I do think they hit it out of the park with the tracksaw

 

[Kev]

It's human nature to be defensive about a choice - particularly when the choice they make is effectively called a stupid or elite choice.

I love some tools and hate some tools ...but I don't have an issue with people that choose either. Sometimes people just take their negative attitudes way too far.

 

[Woodkrafts]

Was it this guy you saw?

 

[Kevin D.]

Festool enthusiasts can also sometimes overzealously promote the brand in woodworking discussions. Unfortunately for those who have no personal experience with the system, and who don't have the finances to purchase a minimal chunk of the system, even if just for the test drive, the enthusiastic recommendations of the Festool system can come across as rubbing salt in a wound.  [sad].

  I refuse to buy a Domino and then use it like a biscuit jointer - I will just use my Lamello Top 20 or Jessem Paralign. 

The Domino is a game changer.  You just haven't taken advantage of the 30 day thing like I did.

I still keep my other joinery methods, but the Domino is my go-to joinery system now.

 

[six-point socket]

Why should one care about haters? Let them hate all they want and save yourself the time to think about it, it's seconds, minutes and hours you're not going to get back anytime soon and which could have been spent on people or stuff you love.

All forums, news-sites, even facebook and youtube have regular contributors who offer valuable information and/or insight one can learn from. Again, unfortunately, for every one of them come at least 10 who claim to have done it all, know everything - but in reality have zero experience on the topic and/or just want to troll.

In general, you will find haters of any- and everything, especially when the product/service comes at a higher than "average" price or can be seen as controversial in terms of use/effectiveness. Use something and judge/see for yourself.

A lot of those "haters" that are not trolls are simply missing insight or, maybe better, the whole picture.

Imagine you are using a "cheap, lesser quality, lifetime warranted"-wrench in a pretty tight area of an expensive product. Now the wrench fails - first,  you might hurt yourself pretty bad depending on circumstances and secondly you might damage the product you are working on. Both can lead to costs far, far beyond what buying a good, maybe "expensive" wrench would have cost you in first place. So, yeah - both wrenches have that lifetime warranty - but the difference is, that with the higher quality wrench you don't have to use that warranty and the chance is less you hurt yourself or damage an (expensive) product. (Don't get me wrong, everything can fail if Murphy is lashing it out on you that day...)

Haters gonna hate and I don't care.  [tongue]

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[slopjock78]

A lot of what you guys are saying, and seems to match what I have seen.  Not all the time, but often, you will find a "i have never used a festool and I never will" along with a statement of someone bashing Festool for a any number of reasons.

I will openly admit that I was definitely one of the people that was very skeptical of Festool BEFORE I ever used one.  And then, I got the TS55 REQ as a gift from my in-laws for the work I did on their new house.  Shortly after that gift, there was a CT26 and RO125 in my life.  Then a domino, then a ETS125, then a DTS400, then OF1400, then a carvex.  Guess we'll see whats next

They say seeing is believing.  Well in the case of Festool, using is definitely believing

 

[Locks14]

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Festool make some excellent and unique tools, that are either better or different than the competition. Festool also make some tools that are equal to the competition and they make some that are worse than the competition.

What I think gets people's backs up is that some people create a euphoric like fanboy buzz around the tools under the assumption that Festool can do no wrong. Caring more about collecting mountains of cream/green systainers than assessing each tool purchase individually.

I can also be guilty of this behaviour. I compared the Bosch 125-150 sander to the ETS150 and the Bosch IMO is a better tool, yet I had to force myself to buy it over the Festool because I quite fancied another Festool systainer, even though the Bosch had less vibration, twin size pads and felt more solidly built. It took a lot of logical inner argument to eventually buy the Bosch.

What Festool are the best at is marketing and brand management getting so many people to blindly accept that Festool are the only tools worth having, and anything else is a compromise or inferior product.

So back to my opening remark. If some go overboard to make Festool out to be beyond reproach, human nature will see others go overboard criticising the brand to restore balance. Equal and opposite reactions.

 

[Kev]

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Festool make some excellent and unique tools, that are either better or different than the competition. Festool also make some tools that are equal to the competition and they make some that are worse than the competition.

What I think gets people's backs up is that some people create a euphoric like fanboy buzz around the tools under the assumption that Festool can do no wrong. Caring more about collecting mountains of cream/green systainers than assessing each tool purchase individually.

I can also be guilty of this behaviour. I compared the Bosch 125-150 sander to the ETS150 and the Bosch IMO is a better tool, yet I had to force myself to buy it over the Festool because I quite fancied another Festool systainer, even though the Bosch had less vibration, twin size pads and felt more solidly built. It took a lot of logical inner argument to eventually buy the Bosch.

What Festool are the best at is marketing and brand management getting so many people to blindly accept that Festool are the only tools worth having, and anything else is a compromise or inferior product.

So back to my opening remark. If some go overboard to make Festool out to be beyond reproach, human nature will see others go overboard criticising the brand to restore balance. Equal and opposite reactions.

[member=49749]Locks14[/member]

Maybe you're not really aiming at insulting people here, but the reality is - you are!

What's your real problem with people being happy about a brand? I personally choose Festool often because I'm confident for a given tool purpose I'm likely to get a good solution. In my circumstance (I'm not a tool professional, I do "other stuff") the time taken to look at the alternatives will cost me more than simply buying the Festool equivalent.

I've certainly had an axe to grind with local (Australia) distribution, but I'm extremely happy with the Festool offerings! What's the harm in me choosing a Festool product first and only resorting to an alternate brand if I'm not entirely happy with my Festool choice? Also, what's wrong with being enthusiastic about a brand???

 

[Locks14]

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Festool make some excellent and unique tools, that are either better or different than the competition. Festool also make some tools that are equal to the competition and they make some that are worse than the competition.

What I think gets people's backs up is that some people create a euphoric like fanboy buzz around the tools under the assumption that Festool can do no wrong. Caring more about collecting mountains of cream/green systainers than assessing each tool purchase individually.

I can also be guilty of this behaviour. I compared the Bosch 125-150 sander to the ETS150 and the Bosch IMO is a better tool, yet I had to force myself to buy it over the Festool because I quite fancied another Festool systainer, even though the Bosch had less vibration, twin size pads and felt more solidly built. It took a lot of logical inner argument to eventually buy the Bosch.

What Festool are the best at is marketing and brand management getting so many people to blindly accept that Festool are the only tools worth having, and anything else is a compromise or inferior product.

So back to my opening remark. If some go overboard to make Festool out to be beyond reproach, human nature will see others go overboard criticising the brand to restore balance. Equal and opposite reactions.

[member=49749]Locks14[/member]

Maybe you're not really aiming at insulting people here, but the reality is - you are!

What's your real problem with people being happy about a brand? I personally choose Festool often because I'm confident for a given tool purpose I'm likely to get a good solution. In my circumstance (I'm not a tool professional, I do "other stuff") the time taken to look at the alternatives will cost me more than simply buying the Festool equivalent.

I've certainly had an axe to grind with local (Australia) distribution, but I'm extremely happy with the Festool offerings! What's the harm in me choosing a Festool product first and only resorting to an alternate brand if I'm not entirely happy with my Festool choice? Also, what's wrong with being enthusiastic about a brand???

I suppose there's nothing wrong with being "enthusiastic" about the brand.  Though that does suggest an emotional attachment/thought process is being employed to influence the purchase of a purely utilitarian inanimate object, which is a bit odd, when the primary concern when buying a tool should be function, not form I.e. the desire to have piles of systainers or lust after "the green".

I've got nothing against Festool, I just don't subscribe to the obsessive pattern of defaulting to their tools if they don't offer any tangible benefit when compared to their competition on individual, tool by tool merit.

 

[bkharman]

I am in the camp that truly doesn't give a crap about people hating or making fun of the fact that I like Festools or anything else "elitist".

I also don't sell my beliefs in the Festool system to my friends or others outside of this Forum as it is generally falling on deaf ears. I like stuff I buy (usually) and don't care how others think about it.

The HVAC guy came for the yearly checkup the other day and said "man, you got a lot of those green tools, I am jealous!  I had never seen them before and googled them after I was at your house last year... Really cool stuff!"

I set my alarm that night.

Cheers. Bryan.

 

[semenza]

There is a whole range on the Love / Hate Festool meter. Pretty hard to make generalizations that have merit.

      Anyone one reading FOG will have a hard time not thinking that the forum is populated mostly by fanboys. But the fact that it is an entire forum dedicated to the Festool brand needs to be taken into account in a realistic way. YES, most of the people on FOG at least like Festool. That should not come as a surprise to anyone whether they are a FOG member or a first time visitor. Because the forum is a FESTOOL forum.

  On other forums the range represented on the Love / Hate meter is going to be much broader. And many forums let haters and trolls run wild which just amps up the controversy.

    When people take the time to read a bunch of FOG threads that are actually about tools and advice, it should become apparent that the information is genuine, legitimate and accurate. And that there are a lot of non-fanboy Festool users.

    On FOG , at least, there are frequently statements to the effect of "drinking the koolaid"  or "gotta get me another Systainer".  I suspect a good many of them are simply just having fun with the idea. As opposed to being serious about the need for another Festool item.  Personally I try not to use the koolaid term in part because I don't like promoting the Festool cult following idea. And partly because I remember the dark , disturbed origin of the term. I was a kid but I still recall the story plastered all over the news.

    Personally, I find it  mildly insulting if people post or think that I only buy Festool because I am being taken in by slick marketing.

    Seth

 

[travisj]

I'm a member on a few other forums as well (vehicle related).  This point of view is not Festool specific.  The Jeep guys don't like the Bronco guys, neither group likes the Range Rovers or International Scouts.  Their is no love lost between the Cummins  diesel fans, with the Duramax or Powerstroke people.  I grew up in the middle of a red tractor vs green tractor family feud (red is the best in case you were wondering).  It is mostly preference and familiarity.  Fanatics exist everywhere.  Sometimes logic is involved, but 90% of the time, my experience is that is more of an emotional response or connection.  Somewhere along the line, everyone had made a purchase due to an emotional fan-type reaction versus a logical one.

  The best explanation that I was given was when I was in the beer industry.  There is no "bad" beer.  There may be beer you don't like for whatever reason, but everything has it's niche.  If it were truly bad, it wouldn't sell, and it would no longer be made.  Tools are the same.  There are good tools and there are bad tools (same with manufacturers).  The bad stuff disappears (usually not quick enough).  I have never been of the belief that one company has done or can do everything perfectly.  I have always recommended that people should do the research on the individual item and its accessories then slowly circle out to get an idea of the company and its other products.  Make a decision based on fact, logic, and experience.  Other people's experience is nice to know about, but I will not make a decision based solely on information from someone I do not know.  At that end, I will not make comments about things I have no experience with, especially online.

I don't know why, but the whole time I was reading this thread, I had some old David Allan Coe song running through my head.
"where bikers stare at cowboys, who are laughing at the hippies, who are praying they'll get out of here alive"

 

[Cheese]

Personally I try not to use the koolaid term in part because I don't like promoting the Festool cult following idea. And partly because I remember the dark , disturbed origin of the term. I was a kid but I still recall the story plastered all over the news.

    Seth

Hard to believe that was 37 years ago...

 

[Tinker]

Personally I try not to use the koolaid term in part because I don't like promoting the Festool cult following idea. And partly because I remember the dark , disturbed origin of the term. I was a kid but I still recall the story plastered all over the news.

    Seth

Hard to believe that was 37 years ago...

Gosh!  I was two years old

 

[John H]

I was going to type a long message but decided rather to go to sleep.

For this posters in this thread that feel that there are numerous "plants" posting here I only offer    the following:

1.  Ignorance is bliss.  I hope you are really happy.
2.  Participation here is voluntary  on your end.  Not happy with the forum?  Go away.

Peter

Seriously?  and from a moderator?  Insults?

So if your not a Festool FanBoy/Fanatic/KoolAid Drinker/Cult Following type member - just go away?

I think I have a new signature line...

 

[semenza]

I was going to type a long message but decided rather to go to sleep.

For this posters in this thread that feel that there are numerous "plants" posting here I only offer    the following:

1.  Ignorance is bliss.  I hope you are really happy.
2.  Participation here is voluntary  on your end.  Not happy with the forum?  Go away.

Peter

So if your not a Festool FanBoy/Fanatic/KoolAid Drinker/Cult Following type member - just go away?

I do not believe that is quite what Peter said in his post which you have quoted.  But I will leave it for Peter to respond to himself.

Seth

 

[John H]

I quoted his post and then I posted my perception of the message he was trying to convey

 

[peter halle]

I apologize for the way my post came across.  I have deleted it.

Peter

 

[Lbob131]

It came across as  reasonable  IMHO. In fact a good adoption for any forum.

 

[copcarcollector]

Peter, I read your post, the whole post, and thought it was fine (and still do). I did not decide to pick out just the sections I wanted to and make a fuss about nothing...