Festool is (partially) moving to imperial in North America

[TylerC]

If there's effort, there's cost .. and you can imagine that cost is not going to be reflected as a price increase to the very market they're trying to exploit.

Prices are remaining the same.

Exactly what I'm saying ...

Got it. Misread your post. There's minimal cost difference with this change. Shouldn't have much of an impact on price/cost.

 

[cred]

4. It's interesting that many of the harshest responses have come from people outside of NA. Obviously, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but it will be interesting to see how the majority of craftsmen in imperial-dominant countries respond. The non-FOG response to this so far as been largely positive.

But, I still don't see the need to alienate those of us in NA using Festool produced metric tools in the hopes of attracting more customers with imperial offerings.  You'll be driving your existing customers (who you already know do support Festool) to other manufacturers.

 

[WastedP]

I purchased my TS 55 on the recon sale, and it came with the imperial scale sticker.  I can work either way, but I was looking forward to getting an OF 1400 some day and working straight metric.  Will stick-on scales be available for routers as well?

It will be tough getting used to calling my RO 125 a RO 4.92126.  I am guessing this is going to really mess with the LR 32 set.

 

[SS Teach]

Once I got into Festool I decided to go metric. It is much so much easier. I agree include a conversion sticker with the tools. One came with my TS 55 R. Seems like  very simple solution.

 

[promark747]

While stickers or dual scales can be helpful, they are not a fully satisfactory solution as the depth adjustment mechanism is made in either metric or imperial...so putting an imperial sticker or a dual scale on a TS55 doesn't magically make the gradations 1/32".

 

[promark747]

Maybe the MFS will be reborn in imperial?  [wink] [wink]  [big grin]

 

[typeshige]

Will this change in any slow the introduction of new tools to NA even further given the additional engineering that it seems is required to change from a default metric design to an Imperial one?

Good question. No, it shouldn't. This adjustment is pretty simple, so it shouldn't release product release timelines.

Can't there be a way to make kits to swap between the two measurement systems? I'd gladly pay extra for this.

Or offer metric as a special order item.  I know Festool USA must have done a lot of market research but nothing like having both options available to show which one actually sells better.

Please reconsider!!!

 

[six-point socket]

Hi!

I really like Festool and because of that I wish Festool North America the best of luck with this endeavor/ business decision, from the bottom of my heart!  [smile]

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[AIPDX]

Sounds like Festool is trying to find its path in this market and struggles with figuring out what the end users want. Clearly, when a seasoned woodworker in the US considers buying his first Festool tool, he may think - not only it is very expensive, it is also in units which do not match anything in my shop and which I do not know how to use. I can see the idea behind this change, Festool wants to eliminate obstacles for promoting its tools in the US to a wider group of end users. But implementation does not sound right.

I grew up in Europe before moving to the US some 20 years ago. I worked for a national lab in the US for a long time. Everything in Europe is metric, everything in science (also in the US) is also metric. So I became "bilingual" in units. It is funny how it works in my head. I learned how to use imperial units, but anything below 1/8" is a struggle, both when it comes to reading it off the scale and to adding fractions. I use metric whenever I can for everything that requires precision better than 1/8", but I typically find myself using imperial for measurements that do not require precision better than 1/8 or 1/4 of an inch - just because readings off the measuring tape are smaller in inches and easier to remember.

For better or for worse, when it comes to lumber, when it comes to router bits, when it comes to drill bits (if they are not Festool), when it comes to standard dimensions of kitchen cabinets, etc., one has to deal with imperial units. This is where nightmare starts. Try to calculate by how much to offset a fence for routing with a 5/8" bit using a metric scale, and try doing it without a calculator. Set up a domino with metric scale for a 3/4" wood to cut right in the middle. It is not about using an outdated system of units which almost no other country in the world uses, it is about making it work within the existing "ecosystem" around us. Having access to imperial units on Festool tools can lead to a significant simplification of work flow.

The problem which I see with this decision is that while  tools with imperial scales will fit better into the US reality,  the existing Festool ecosystem will start breaking apart. It is OK when every tool uses the same units. However it can only get worse if it becomes a mix and match. The last thing we want is to have a units mismatch between Festool tools. We want them to be either "bilingual" or easily switchable depending on the task.

A revolutionary decision  would be to implement either a dual scale when possible, or a digital display when dual scale is impossible. Imagine how nice it would be to have a digital depth display on a router or track saw. It would be super easy to reset it to a zero plunge/cut depth, very easy to read, and very easy to switch from digital to metric and back.

The decision to change about 8 tools to imperial while keeping the rest in metric can only create confusion and dissatisfaction... If they started offering metric, the way forward is to attract imperial users who are not ready to convert or can't convert because of the work that they are doing, while keeping the metric customer base happy.

Festool appears to lack a roadmap and could better research its customer base and market.

 

[Duck76]

Another unhappy Canuck here.  While I can work in both systems, the metric system is much easier and it is the official system of measurement here in Canada. 

I can understand the position to offer imperial tools to the US market but please don't force the rest of us to do the same!

Or maybe it's just a ploy to boost sales this quarter by triggering a rush to buy the remaining metric tools in stock?

 

[Oldwood]

Canada is metric. All stength testing and certification of lumber fabricated and sold in Canada is done using metric units. Try to find a 3/4" thick of plywood made in Canada. Impossible. They are fabricated using metric sizes.

I remember when I did my thesis for my Structural Engineering degree, 25+ years ago, that all lumber, trusses, gusset plates etc, were metric and all findings were published in metric.

Cheers
JC

I started building my dream house 6 months ago. Clearly, I'm no expert. But I did go to a engineering school too.

My House plans dimensions where imperial, center to center measures in inches

Concrete thickness in inches (but strength in megapascals)

LVLs and I-Joist specifier sheets where in inches. Same with the I-joists web hole cutting instructions.

Plumbing: Imperial

Garage doors : imperial sizes, and so on.

Not once did I order something using the metric system, except for the concrete. The fact that lumber is cut using the metric system is irrelevant, simply because 19mm plywood is made to replace the real 3/4 inch plywood and nobody cares for the .05 mm difference.(except engineers )

A lot of lumber sold in Canada is still named after the old imperial sizes. Contractors and framers still refer to these sizes & lumber yards employees are familliar with them. So no, Canada is not metric at 100% yet.

When you order your cabinet hardware you will be working in metric, no way around that and I think a lot of the Festool lineup is directed towards cabinet construction. Trying to build cabinets in standard with metric based hardware is a PIA!

 

[vkumar]

Just to get my voice heard.  I prefer metric.  I do hope [member=57769]TylerC[/member] that you will offer metric stickers for those of us that prefer it.

 

[danbox]

Well you have to love our American friends, why is the imperial system still being used anyway. Who needs a coherent system of measurement that unifys area volume weight mass tempurature and time anyway.

Im guessing it's because it's a European system (French & BAAS), I remember reading somewhere a few years ago about the metric system in America that in the early 1900 a bill was put forward to make it mandatory across the country as it was being widely used across the Britsh and French empire, 40 or so top American business/Science guys where invited to give their opinion and all but 3 or 4 where in favour of the bill being passed as they understood the advantages that the system had, the government however didn't and rejected it, the article also stated that other bills had been presented with similar support but again get rejected each time?

If it's the system of measurement that is used, even if it is outdated, I don't really understand the hate towards Festool for selling tools in that market, especially if it's what their competition is doing.

 

[GhostFist]

I'm happy for imperial measurements for construction, i think festool shouldn't eliminate metric products however. It's nice for those that think they know better to have choices.

Seriously you should have the option, Im sure more imperial will sell, but theres those who want to be weird and they have the right

 

[bobfog]

Metric measurements are not the impediment or hurdle to more U.S. sales, price is. When most Festool tools increase 2-4% annually every April 1, at some point (just like private education which is more like 5-6% annually) you will push away more people from buying into your ecosystem.

Best path forward is to offer as many add-on stickers for imperial scale and also the detented adjustment parts too for a true alternative. Both measuring camps will be happy.

I have a lot of tools from many, many brands and price is always a factor. Sure I'd like to have an OF1400 router but my 3 Bosch routers work perfect and as a whole cost the same. My drill/driver/impact tools cost together what one Festool battery drill costs. I buy tools that solve a problem not blindly buy a brand. My 5 Festool tools are it for a good while (each is unique to me), metric/imperial doesn't matter. I do want quality and precision but that is provided from many other brands. We humans are the main precision tools in the shop, and money doesn't grow on trees.

Sales/marketing 101, don't sell your product based on price, sell it on what it can do for the customer, even when price is the elephant in the room, preventing greater market share.

Come up with a clever marketing campaign or in this case switch to imperial as the excuse for why sales aren't where they need to be, even if you're wrong, at least it bought you sometime to think up the next brilliant idea to avoid admitting you're too overpriced and boutique to get a larger market share with the wider market. In the meantime spend your lunch hours looking for a new job that takes you out of the firing line hopefully before management realise the latest bright idea wasn't actually the answer.

The last thing management ever wants to hear is "maybe we're too expensive, we should cut out prices". I suspect this move to imperial is just the upshot of dancing around the truth that nobody wants to admit.

 

[AIPDX]

Well you have to love our American friends, why is the imperial system still being used anyway. Who needs a coherent system of measurement that unifys area volume weight mass tempurature and time anyway.

To be fair, US is gradually moving towards introducing metric units wherever possible. Nearly all food items are now labelled in both imperial and metric units. Kids at school learn how to use metric. Electronic gadgets increasingly often can be switched between imperial and metric. However, it is very difficult to make this change happen because of costs, habits, established production routes, etc. It will happen, but it will take a long time. Someone was too conservative in the past and decided to stick with the imperial, now we have to live with that.

The same applies to countries with left-side traffic. Not very convenient (especially for UK folks who want to drive to the rest of Europe) but how would you change it?

Sorry about the off-topic.

 

[TylerC]

If it's the system of measurement that is used, even if it is outdated, I don't really understand the hate towards Festool for selling tools in that market, especially if it's what their competition is doing.

Bingo. Personally, I think that the US should have adopted metric one hundred years ago. However, they didn't. For better or worse, imperial is the standard here. Who are we to fight it?

 

[cred]

If it's the system of measurement that is used, even if it is outdated, I don't really understand the hate towards Festool for selling tools in that market, especially if it's what their competition is doing.

Bingo. Personally, I think that the US should have adopted metric one hundred years ago. However, they didn't. For better or worse, imperial is the standard here. Who are we to fight it?

Again, this appears to be showing little regard to your existing customers.  Festool chose the "wrong" side in NA initially, so now they'll switch midstream, leaving current users by the wayside?

 

[Peter_C]

The better question is are the metric versions going to be offered at a good sale price?

In some ways it is a good push for those like me that have been holding back on buying tools (OF1010 router in my case) to make the purchase soon. As always a sale will drive sales.

 

[danbox]

Well you have to love our American friends, why is the imperial system still being used anyway. Who needs a coherent system of measurement that unifys area volume weight mass tempurature and time anyway.

To be fair, US is gradually moving towards introducing metric units wherever possible. Nearly all food items are now labelled in both imperial and metric units. Kids at school learn how to use metric. Electronic gadgets increasingly often can be switched between imperial and metric. However, it is very difficult to make this change happen because of costs, habits, established production routes, etc. It will happen, but it will take a long time. Someone was too conservative in the past and decided to stick with the imperial, now we have to live with that.

The same applies to countries with left-side traffic. Not very convenient (especially for UK folks who want to drive to the rest of Europe) but how would you change it?

Sorry about the off-topic.

Well we still carry swords over here so we need to keep left...