Festool LEYSYS-FT1 spirit level

[mino]

Sorry, how can any slide allow you to open a systainer fully? In order to open fully the systainer must be clear of the box above. When means the slide would have to extend beyond the cabinet, no?

It seems people are complaining that the slide doesn’t achieve the impossible, which honestly sums up the point we’ve reached with these discussions.

The point is that:

...
The same as it was done for no benefit to non-vehicle users.
...

The rails "feature" is useless for the (vast) majority of non-vehicle users. That it could not be useful, as you correctly point, makes the situation worse, not better.

What Coen, Me and others are saying, is that TTS have effectively created a "BOTTainer" which joins with the TANOS/Festool systainers. Abandoning a part of their customer base in the process, the most expert and "loyal" part. Even the Metaloc stuff nor Makita or Hikoki broke the sizes system. Guess why.

Sure, joining with the Systainer ecosystem is good. BUOTT. It is not enough to make the SYS3 be a part of THE SYSTEM.

The sad reality is all that would not be a major issue had T-Locs not been made into unobtainium at the same time ..

Nough said. Sorry for the OT.

 

[Spandex]

The rails "feature" is useless for the (vast) majority of non-vehicle users. That it could not be useful, as you correctly point, makes the situation worse, not better.

In other words…

They added a feature that is useful for some people and of zero impact to those who don’t need it. They didn’t manage to find a way to have the lid occupy the same physical space as the box above though, so we should probably complain about it in every thread about systainers.

 

[Jacks Moonshiner]

Test

 

[Jacks Moonshiner]

No but seriously here’s a thought:

Can’t Festool/Tanos just bring out a secondary , complimentary Gen3 ? Like call it Gen3 T-Loc , and it’ll have the same height system as T-Loc, combined with some of the new nifty Gen3 look/curves whatever …and it won’t be BOTT-patible…and anytime a customer purchases a new machine they’ll be able to choose between the two kinds of Sys…according to their specific needs.

I mean right now you have all these options when purchasing, that’s something Festool do so great as it is… will it be That difficult/pricey/going way out of their way/impossible to just setup a parallel assembly line/whatever that churnes out these cross generation Systainers?

Won’t something like this be worth their while and earn them another heaping, -load of new customers AND make a good many many of their current loyal customers happy(ier)?

No I’m serious here.. I’m sure I’ll now be hearing no it can’t be done and this n that but seriously why not? Yes I know I’m coming from a completely ignorant standpoint I have no idea regarding how these things actually work …
but I AM a Festool owner-user-customer. And so are y’all !
And Sedge always proudly states how Festool is a company that listens REALLY listens to their customers… so really is something like this THAT difficult or impossible for a company as Amazing, as Genius, as experienced in the field, as outright one-of-a-kind, as Festool/Tanos/Tooltechnic whatever to accomplish?

 

[semenza]

And the Sys height topic takes over yet another thread.  [sad]

    I had not thought of the handle as a space to contain something. The level is cool. I bet other things could be be carried in the handle. I am thinking  of trying it for reciprocating saw blades and the like. I bet someone on FOG could come up with a 3D printed container to slip into the handle.

Seth

 

[mino]

The rails "feature" is useless for the (vast) majority of non-vehicle users. That it could not be useful, as you correctly point, makes the situation worse, not better.

In other words…

They added a feature that is useful for some people and of zero impact to those who don’t need it. They didn’t manage to find a way to have the lid occupy the same physical space as the box above though, so we should probably complain about it in every thread about systainers.

The existence of the "rail" was (as is often) cited as "an improvement" when people complain about the heights. The point Cheese made was that such an argument is disingenuous at best .. I would add that it is a Strawman at worst.

His (and my) argument is not against "the rails addition" but against "the rails addition somehow justifies/compensates the heights changes". These are separate and shall not be conflated.

Can’t Festool/Tanos just bring out a secondary , complimentary Gen3 ? Like call it Gen3 T-Loc , and it’ll have the same height system as T-Loc, combined with some of the new nifty Gen3 look/curves whatever …and it won’t be BOTT-patible…and anytime a customer purchases a new machine they’ll be able to choose between the two kinds of Sys…according to their specific needs.

I mean right now you have all these options when purchasing, that’s something Festool do so great as it is… will it be That difficult/pricey/going way out of their way/impossible to just setup a parallel assembly line/whatever that churnes out these cross generation Systainers?

Won’t something like this be worth their while and earn them another heaping, -load of new customers AND make a good many many of their current loyal customers happy(ier)?
...

To be fair, for new tool distribution, asking for multiple options is just not practical.

Though there is literally nothing preventing Festool offering additional sizes as aftermarket. They can even price them a bit higher to account for the additional SKUs stocking cost.

For this really only 3 molds (and 3 SKUs) would be needed:
SYS 2 TL => "SYS3 164.5"
SYS 3 TL => "SYS3 217"
SYS 4 TL => "SYS3 322"

A "SYS3 427" is probably not needed (437 is close-enough to 427) and a SYS3 112 already exists.

 

[Spandex]

No, the point Cheese made was that you can't open the lid properly when using the rails. He said it was "inexcusable". He said it "bordered on stupid".

I get that people are annoyed that the boxes changed and stuff they liked about the old ones went away. I get that people want to have a vent about that. But seriously, it's getting to the point where the same faces are making the same comments in every single 'systainer adjacent' thread on this site, over and over.

I generally just ignore it, because whilst it's a bit frustrating to see threads constantly derailed, the points are perfectly valid. Repetitive, but valid. However, when people complain about stuff that simply makes no logical sense, like not being able to open a box on its rail, even though there's no way you could physically ever do that, I think the mistake needs to be pointed out.

The only way to open a box fully when it's in a rack of identical boxes, is if it's on a drawer or shelf with full extension runners. Which, Festool still offers (the sys-az) and which the new sys3 is still compatible with.

 

[squall_line]

And the Sys height topic takes over yet another thread.  [sad]

Think of it like Godwin's Law, but for Festool...

    I had not thought of the handle as a space to contain something. The level is cool. I bet other things could be be carried in the handle. I am thinking  of trying it for reciprocating saw blades and the like. I bet someone on FOG could come up with a 3D printed container to slip into the handle.

Seth

An interesting idea, for sure.  If they had put a bottle opener in the handle of the new Cooltainer instead of using that magnetic T-Loc shaped dealie-bob, it would have been able to travel with the cooler much more easily (although would be much less kitschy).

 

[Jacks Moonshiner]

I just checked what Godwins Law means…

brilliant

Anyway Cheese ,in all honesty I think Spandex is making a very good point…waddya think?

The Rails have their specific value , functionality and yes they like everything else, their limitations…I think Spandex explained it spot-on …AZ is a great product , it does exactly what you need but the rails were never intended to replace AZ …more like complement it.

And you cannot ignore the various factors if you insist on comparing the two …rails are much cheaper four sets for 40$ is not that much even by Festool Standards. Installation is a snitch. I don’t own AZ so I wouldn’t know the setup process/time but I’m guessing it needs a bit more work than the Sys3Rails.

I made 2 Systainer Cabinets (Sys-Cabs) and the majority of my systainers ,whether gen3 or gen2, sit on shelves. But there are also plenty of sys rails in there and they have  made my life a whole lot easier…specially in the higher places where an AZ opening up would not be that convenient or necessary…unless you wanna use a ladder to get there…with the rails I don’t need a ladder even for those systainers sitting higher up.
The ORGs go sweet in rails as well …very nice n smooth whip-em-out/whip-em-back in…granted you need a place to put em on and open n do what you need ..as opposed to the AZs , but ,again the footprint is much smaller with rails aintit?

 

[Jacks Moonshiner]

mino… missed your post before n read it now…understood…thank you for clarifying

Seth , I think you’re on to something! Amazing concept!!

 

[Coen]

The rails "feature" is useless for the (vast) majority of non-vehicle users. That it could not be useful, as you correctly point, makes the situation worse, not better.

In other words…

They added a feature that is useful for some people and of zero impact to those who don’t need it. They didn’t manage to find a way to have the lid occupy the same physical space as the box above though, so we should probably complain about it in every thread about systainers.

That's not really a fair summary.

They removed;
-Nice height system
-Side card slots
-Nice top handle

They added;
+Compatibility with rails

The rails aren't sold in most of Festool's target area, so that cancels out that addition, leaving all the negatives.

[...]
To be fair, for new tool distribution, asking for multiple options is just not practical.

Though there is literally nothing preventing Festool offering additional sizes as aftermarket. They can even price them a bit higher to account for the additional SKUs stocking cost.

For this really only 3 molds (and 3 SKUs) would be needed:
SYS 2 TL => "SYS3 164.5"
SYS 3 TL => "SYS3 217"
SYS 4 TL => "SYS3 322"

A "SYS3 427" is probably not needed (437 is close-enough to 427) and a SYS3 112 already exists.

437 doesn't stack in the system either. It needs to be 1:1 and 10mm off isn't 'close enough'

They can even leave the rail compatibility on them. I don't really care.

But I still don't get the 50mm increment combined with +30mm fixed. How does the Organizer fit in there if the Bott system works with 50mm steps? Does it fit with 2mm less headroom? Because 89 minus 7mm feet leaves 50+30+2.

Also; the Sortimo L-Boxx works with 34mm increments (and 16mm "feet" on the lid). So Systainers would leave a 20mm gap between each other and Sortimo L-Boxx would leave 32 (in case of L-boxx 102), 48 (in case of L-boxx 136), 46 (in case of L-boxx 238) and 10mm (in case of L-boxx 374)?

Maybe Bott should adjust it's step size. Either way; I have yet to see any van in real life stacked with the official rails for either Systainer or L-Boxx, so...

 

[Spandex]

The rails aren't sold in most of Festool's target area, so that cancels out that addition, leaving all the negatives.

Load of people don’t use the height combinations and don’t care about the side card slots either. So that cancels them out too..  [big grin] [big grin]

Sigh…

 

[Coen]

The rails aren't sold in most of Festool's target area, so that cancels out that addition, leaving all the negatives.

Load of people don’t use the height combinations and don’t care about the side card slots either. So that cancels them out too..  [big grin] [big grin]

Sigh…

Yes, for the people that don't care about nice things there is an abundance of cheap tools in blow-molded cases.

 

[Jacks Moonshiner]

And the Sys height topic takes over yet another thread.  [sad]

    I had not thought of the handle as a space to contain something. The level is cool. I bet other things could be be carried in the handle. I am thinking  of trying it for reciprocating saw blades and the like. I bet someone on FOG could come up with a 3D printed container to slip into the handle.

Seth

Seth , how bout a spring-loaded mini container for recip/jigsaw blades?
It’ll look like the spirit level , you push that into the handle n it locks withthat cool green button aligned with the hole, then after it’s locked in, you push the side edge and it ejects the container where the blades r stored…sweet!

 

[Coen]

That would definitely be nice. Because since the introduction of the T-Loc Systainer, the jigsaw inlays lack a good blade storage space.

 

[Spandex]

Yes, for the people that don't care about nice things there is an abundance of cheap tools in blow-molded cases.

Yes, that is literally the only reason why someone might not care about a feature you care about…

 

[slavi.yordanov]

The rails aren't sold in most of Festool's target area, so that cancels out that addition, leaving all the negatives.

Load of people don’t use the height combinations and don’t care about the side card slots either. So that cancels them out too..  [big grin] [big grin]

Sigh…

The problem with people in forums is that they think of themselves as the majority of people using the products or services discussed. The reality is different.

Bott already had those boxes before Festool integrated them into their ‘system’ The height makes perfect sense from Bott’s perspective as the holes in the racking are 50mm apart. This gives enough gap above each Systainer to lift and slide it out, while maximizing how many Systainers fit in the rack. For shop owners that don’t want/need to spend $50 on a slide now have an option for $10 slide. To say that nobody needs that is ignorant.

In addition to racking compatibility, the Sys3 has a stronger bottom, stronger lid, front handle, better attic lid and also we now have Organizer Systainer, as well as more L size options.

Cleary Festool knew that Bott racking will be introduced to the US market. So for everyone that actually makes money with those tools it’s an amazing system. You can use Tlocs with the racks, but it’s cumbersome and space inefficient.

On topic:
The level looks nice, not sure if practical or accurate enough for cabinet installers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[semenza]

Level in the handle would be very handy, safe storage, for an around the house or small jobs toolbox. Keeps it always available and protected from other tools in the box.

Seth

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Recip blades? Why for heaven’s sake would I need storage for those? Why has that FedEx truck just pulled up outside?

Oh.

Wait …..

[attachimg=1]

 

[Lincoln]

Recip blades? Why for heaven’s sake would I need storage for those? Why has that FedEx truck just pulled up outside?

Oh.

Wait …..

[attachimg=1]

OOOh, nice! Does that work with the Nuron batteries?