bonesbr549
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- Jan 1, 2008
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- 542
I'm sure as all my other festool stuff is it will be great, but for 200 bucks I just got the makita drill/driver/light combo. I love my festool, but the makita is a fine tool.
Festool Lithium Cordless on its way!!
- Thread starter powertoolworld
- Start date
markchamness
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- Jan 27, 2007
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All batteries self-discharge over time. Here is a nice background on battery tech:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/
Every battery chemistry has advantages and disadvantages. For example:
NiCad are fast to charge, Li-Ion are slower.
NiCad has a long shelf life - five-year storage is possible.
Li-Ion are subject to aging, even if not in use. Li-Ion frequently fail after two or three years.
etc.
The major advantage of Li-Ion is energy density - you can go longer between charges. About twice as long. This is somewhat a mute point given that all Festool drills ship with 2 batteries, so you can always have one on the charger. Basically you pay extra (for the Li-Ion technology) so that you don't have to switch batteries as often. This would be useful to me if I worked on a roof-top and it was difficult to get to the charger.
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/
Every battery chemistry has advantages and disadvantages. For example:
NiCad are fast to charge, Li-Ion are slower.
NiCad has a long shelf life - five-year storage is possible.
Li-Ion are subject to aging, even if not in use. Li-Ion frequently fail after two or three years.
etc.
The major advantage of Li-Ion is energy density - you can go longer between charges. About twice as long. This is somewhat a mute point given that all Festool drills ship with 2 batteries, so you can always have one on the charger. Basically you pay extra (for the Li-Ion technology) so that you don't have to switch batteries as often. This would be useful to me if I worked on a roof-top and it was difficult to get to the charger.
Forrest Anderson
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- Jan 23, 2007
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JeromeM said:
Where were you when you were told of the price rise - in the USA, the UK, or somewhere else?
Forrest
willywonka
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- Jul 21, 2008
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- 8
Hello All,
Unfortunately all my Festool's were swiped and have to be replaced. Glad to see a new Lith-ion version as "NiCad are awful" - the batteries wear out fast, slow to charge and have awful memory problems. My main tool is the drill and go through half a dozen charges in a day. After switching to lith-ion, HUGE improvement....
Anyways, my question is WHEN. I found they are selling in Australia and Europe already?
I almost bought the CT many months back but when I found out it was NiCad, had second thoughts, even though it was a Festool and are more impulsive than a crack whore in a rock factory.
My collection of drills with dead and useless batteries is huge! I was always planning to just get the batteries refurbished or pick them up cheap on ebay but since Lithium came out, there is no way I would even bother. The difference is huge in my opinion!
Again when can we have the new CT?
Craig
Unfortunately all my Festool's were swiped and have to be replaced. Glad to see a new Lith-ion version as "NiCad are awful" - the batteries wear out fast, slow to charge and have awful memory problems. My main tool is the drill and go through half a dozen charges in a day. After switching to lith-ion, HUGE improvement....
Anyways, my question is WHEN. I found they are selling in Australia and Europe already?
I almost bought the CT many months back but when I found out it was NiCad, had second thoughts, even though it was a Festool and are more impulsive than a crack whore in a rock factory.
My collection of drills with dead and useless batteries is huge! I was always planning to just get the batteries refurbished or pick them up cheap on ebay but since Lithium came out, there is no way I would even bother. The difference is huge in my opinion!
Again when can we have the new CT?
Craig
Bob Marino
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- Jan 16, 2007
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- 3,263
willywonka said:
Craig,
If you are referring to the Lithium Ion C12, I don't think it will be here in 09.
Bob
My understanding was there isn't going to be a lithium ion powered C12, the C12 is still a current model, but they don't plan on making lithium-ion batteries for it. (btw, aside from the NiCad's, NiMH are and have been available for the C12 for a long time)
In reality I have noticed that most stores are fasing out the C12 since the T drills came out (big discounts and a free sys1 with the little colored boxes (the stores can discount festool stuff if they decide to no longer stock the tool in question, apparantly)
BTW, the T drills can operate on the older batteries aswell.
I have also read a magazine review of cordless drills a while back, and +3 part of the documention isn't just air... The T12 equaled the performance of the best drill in the 14.4 class. (it was also priced way higher too
)
In reality I have noticed that most stores are fasing out the C12 since the T drills came out (big discounts and a free sys1 with the little colored boxes (the stores can discount festool stuff if they decide to no longer stock the tool in question, apparantly)
BTW, the T drills can operate on the older batteries aswell.
I have also read a magazine review of cordless drills a while back, and +3 part of the documention isn't just air... The T12 equaled the performance of the best drill in the 14.4 class. (it was also priced way higher too
)Ken Milhinch
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- May 5, 2007
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- 58
powertoolworld said:
Are you quite sure about that ? The Panasonic 15.6V has 10% more torque, the Hitachi 18V 12.5% more torque, the Metabo 18v has 62.5% more torque, and none of these are Li-ion batteries.
pingvinlakrits
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- Oct 2, 2007
- Messages
- 1,093
Frank-Jan said:My understanding was there isn't going to be a lithium ion powered C12, the C12 is still a current model, but they don't plan on making lithium-ion batteries for it. (btw, aside from the NiCad's, NiMH are and have been available for the C12 for a long time)
In reality I have noticed that most stores are fasing out the C12 since the T drills came out (big discounts and a free sys1 with the little colored boxes (the stores can discount festool stuff if they decide to no longer stock the tool in question, apparantly)
BTW, the T drills can operate on the older batteries aswell.
I have also read a magazine review of cordless drills a while back, and +3 part of the documention isn't just air... The T12 equaled the performance of the best drill in the 14.4 class. (it was also priced way higher too
From what I have heard from my Festool rep there is a C12 Li-Ion in the works, they are slowly phasing out the C12 and are apparently in no rush doing so. Apparently they want to rid themselves of old stock and tweak the new C12 in the mean time. I might be tempted, but not if it doesn't come with a LED light. I asked the Festool rep why they didn't incorporate LED-lights in the new Li-Ion drills and he said that "why would they, if it has already been done? It would not be innovative." I thought the answer was a bit lame as it has nothing to do with innovation, it is convenient. I was fastening a lot of supporting brackets for shelves the other week and I had both hands full and I would not have bee nable to find the hole for the screw if I hadn't had the LED light, the thought of moving a torch/lamp all along the way. It was both convenient and time saving. Over the two years with LED lights on my Makita I have used it on numerous occasions and would not want to be without it.
The new Festool drills are really well balanced but I think the batteries add unnecessary bulk (not weight though), compared to the competition they are top of the line in some aspects but I find them still lacking in other. The price/product does not reflect any superiority over the better Makitas/Panasonics. I added the smaller 10.8V Makita to the set up (petite, fairly strong and yes, it has a light) and since then the C12 is closet camping unless I need it for one of those rare off occasions when the add ons come in handy.
By the time the new C12 comes out I might be retiring the Makitas (if the new C12 is up to the task), except for the petite one which is in the handy bag at home for domestic purposes. If the old NimHs are compatible with the new C12 I will have a strong set up for field use and the old C12 will be the spare drill, much as it is now.
Dave Ronyak
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- Jan 23, 2007
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Henrik,
I hope that comment you received is an abberation and not the official Festool party line. I note the Japanese automobile manufacturers and at least to some extent the Japanese tool manufacturers gained market acceptance by adopting good ideas of others as well as innovating. I observed Toyota doing this several decades ago, and as they say, the rest is history -- they are now the No. 1 auto maker in the world. In reality Festool is being "forced" by competition to follow the other tool makers in regard to some features, Li-Ion batteries being among them. Hopefully, the addition of useful LED lights will follow. Those LED lights were a key reason I chose other brands for my jigsaw and battery powered drill, because I expected to be working frequently under a deck or in an attic. And I don't regret either purchase. Another sign of hope is Festool's recent change of official position regarding circular saw blades. Previously, their official position was that the kerf width of the Panther rip blade for the TS 55 had to be different from that of the 48T Fine Cut and 28T General Purpose blades, but the introduction by Tenyru of a line of quality blades having a common kerf width may have caused Festool to revise their blade offerings to do the same.
Dave R.
I hope that comment you received is an abberation and not the official Festool party line. I note the Japanese automobile manufacturers and at least to some extent the Japanese tool manufacturers gained market acceptance by adopting good ideas of others as well as innovating. I observed Toyota doing this several decades ago, and as they say, the rest is history -- they are now the No. 1 auto maker in the world. In reality Festool is being "forced" by competition to follow the other tool makers in regard to some features, Li-Ion batteries being among them. Hopefully, the addition of useful LED lights will follow. Those LED lights were a key reason I chose other brands for my jigsaw and battery powered drill, because I expected to be working frequently under a deck or in an attic. And I don't regret either purchase. Another sign of hope is Festool's recent change of official position regarding circular saw blades. Previously, their official position was that the kerf width of the Panther rip blade for the TS 55 had to be different from that of the 48T Fine Cut and 28T General Purpose blades, but the introduction by Tenyru of a line of quality blades having a common kerf width may have caused Festool to revise their blade offerings to do the same.
Dave R.
nickao
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- Feb 24, 2008
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- 4,617
For the price of the Festool drills they should not only have a light, but everything else any other company has on their drills. Festool calls them the best and they are not. The most expensive yes.
I recently purchased some of the Makita drills and drivers to go with my older Panasonic's and they are just fantastic. And the price just ridiculously low! I love the Panasonic and they still are my favorite, but even in my brightly lit shop I find I am grabbing the Makita's with their light over my 15.6 V Panasonic most of the time.
Adding a little LED is a necessity now and needs to be on almost any tool that can make use of it, router, drill/drivers etc.
Even adding a light I still think I will stick with the Makita and Panasonic rather than go Festool for drill/drivers.
I recently purchased some of the Makita drills and drivers to go with my older Panasonic's and they are just fantastic. And the price just ridiculously low! I love the Panasonic and they still are my favorite, but even in my brightly lit shop I find I am grabbing the Makita's with their light over my 15.6 V Panasonic most of the time.
Adding a little LED is a necessity now and needs to be on almost any tool that can make use of it, router, drill/drivers etc.
Even adding a light I still think I will stick with the Makita and Panasonic rather than go Festool for drill/drivers.
Along with my CD 12, I have an old Hitachi 9v and a Makita 12v, both of which are more comfortable and lighter to use than my CD 12. The problem is that the batteries are wearing out. The Hitachi bat's are already cooked and the Makita only holds up for a dozen or so drills. I don't even use it for driving screws any more. My friend who does all of my out door equipment repairs has several makita cordless drills. The batteries are tiny in comparison to my old Makita. The battery on my old Makita is considerably smaller than on my CD 12 which is probably why it is so much lighter. I have watch John use his tiny little Makita loosen frozen nuts and the tighten the replacements. He drills half inch steel plates that I can't even begin to drill with my CD.
I am soon going to be in the market for a new cordless drill as it is much easier to set up two drills for almost any project so I can drill with one and drive with the other. I see no need to go to anything heavier than 12v, but unless I see something in way of improvement in Festool 12v drivers, I will do as Henrik does and keep the old CD on the shelf to take advantage of those extra chucks I have for special operations.
Tinker
I am soon going to be in the market for a new cordless drill as it is much easier to set up two drills for almost any project so I can drill with one and drive with the other. I see no need to go to anything heavier than 12v, but unless I see something in way of improvement in Festool 12v drivers, I will do as Henrik does and keep the old CD on the shelf to take advantage of those extra chucks I have for special operations.
Tinker
My C12 is my favorite drill, period. But, I doubt that I will even take a serious look at the new models. I will probably buy a couple more C12 batteries, now that the price has dropped dramatically. I think my next cordless purchases will be either Panasonic or Makita. I have not had any luck with Dewalt, PC, or Hitachi, and mixed results with Bosch and Milwaukee.
Tinker, have you thought about having your old batteries rebuilt. I have a couple of old 9.6v Makita (long battery) drills, and I have had the batteries rebuilt in them several times. It generally costs about 30 to 50% of what a new battery costs, and lasts longer than the originals. I found a place locally that uses high quality components.
I agree with erikfs and Nick regarding the lights. I don't know that I needed them, until I had them.
Tinker, have you thought about having your old batteries rebuilt. I have a couple of old 9.6v Makita (long battery) drills, and I have had the batteries rebuilt in them several times. It generally costs about 30 to 50% of what a new battery costs, and lasts longer than the originals. I found a place locally that uses high quality components.
I agree with erikfs and Nick regarding the lights. I don't know that I needed them, until I had them.
