Festool Live is DEAD.

[peter halle]

How about we cut out the attacks - NOW.

P. Halle - Moderator

 

[Michael Kellough]

About prices, we know that this years price increase will begin Jan 1 whereas in the past it has been a month or so later.

 

[mino]

Since you don't know me, I will overlook the stupidity in your comment. First, I don't troll - anyone. I was simply stating that one of the best informational woodworking online shows is now gone. Not many left. It was both entertaining and informative. You missed that part didn't you! Second, it is bad too lose your job, especially during the holidays. The price of Festool tools has been overpriced forever. Nothing to do with with the tariffs. The tariffs don't help but their prices have always been at least triple of other manufacturers. No rant, just facts.

Thanks for the reply, I have since edited the post given your genuine unawareness of the global manufacturing landscape and where Festool stands in it.

The main point stands though:

Festool, globally, is operating on razor-thin margins. That is a fact. MUCH thinner ones than most tool makers who ALL make most their tools in China /with their 1/3 labor costs, 1/5 energy costs and economies of scale/. They figured they cannot afford to splurge on major marketing/PR stuff like Sedge and Co were doing to keep US prices down without going bust.

You may not be aware, but the whole Festool operation is EU-based with all R&D, all component suppliers Europe/US-based and all assembly*) done at their two plants in Germany, one in Czech Republic. Thanks to that, as a matter of fact I KNOW the TTS actual manufacturing costs as I KNOW how much they could charge for them under the local SK/CZ NAREX brand which was historically operating on cost+ razor margins *before* they were gradually forced to abandon manufacturing most kit, even stuff with decades-paid-for R&D like angle grinders as they could not hope to compete with China tools like the Bosch/Metabo/Dewalt/Makita etc. of today. Even with the superior quality/durability, the economy just does not work when competition has less than 1/3 base costs.


When you compare what Festool charges, you can compare with Maffel, or Lamello, partially Fein for their in-house models. That is about it. And all those charge similar or more..

*) Well, not entirely anymore. The RSC is not in-house, though it is a portfolio-filler tool where there were no options sourcing in Europe. No one in EU makes recips whatsoever.
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Apologies for the lack of civility, I was just really agitated by the perceived "I want stuff for cheap while workers are to be paid from thin air" tone of your post.

The only people who seriously spout that /over here in Europe/ are young Marxists who tend to have no concept of how a hammer is made to 'disturb' their ideological views, not mention state-of-the-art power tools.
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ADD:
I am also sad with the state of US power tools industry, with almost everything an import these days. But I am also VERY conscious that EU is on the same path and it is not a good path. Not for the society/economy as a whole. So anytime someone pushes for more outsourcing core manufacturing /like tools/ to China, directly or indirectly, it makes me angry with rage. Bitching about the few makers who still do make stuff being "expensive" and "extorting their workers" is one of the worst as it attacks the weak points of the surviving local companies. It hits where they have nothing to defend themselves with - except shutting down production and moving it to China. I realise that was likely not your intention, but intentions matter little when the results are plain destruction ..

 

[luvmytoolz]

I was simply stating that one of the best informational woodworking online shows is now gone. Not many left. It was both entertaining and informative.

I wasn't a massive fan of the show myself but I absolutely respect Sedge and what he did, but I kinda feel a lot of woodworking tutorials and demo's have been done to death by the multitude of online influencers, and so much is simply rinse and repeat.

There's definitely no dearth of useful and relevant content in-between the click-bait online.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Bitching about the few makers who still do make stuff being "expensive" and "extorting their workers" is one of the worst as it attacks the weak points of the surviving local companies. It hits where they have nothing to defend themselves with - except shutting down production and moving it to China. I realise that was likely not your intention, but intentions matter little when the results are plain destruction ..

This!

If you don't like the price, or colour, or whatever, simply don't buy it. No need to scream it to the world.

 

[smorgasbord]

I wasn't a massive fan of the show myself but I absolutely respect Sedge and what he did, but I kinda feel a lot of woodworking tutorials and demo's have been done to death by the multitude of online influencers, and so much is simply rinse and repeat.

Yeah, when he isn't playing to the camera, he's a wealth of real-world usage information on the tools he recommends, and I pretty much always learned something new on Festool Live from him. Bent, almost never.

Overall, the YouTube thing seems hard to navigate for companies. Do you play up for the likes, or do you deliver dry but information-packed videos that the posers don't watch?

 

[Cheese]

I wasn't a massive fan of the show myself but I absolutely respect Sedge and what he did, but I kinda feel a lot of woodworking tutorials and demo's have been done to death by the multitude of online influencers, and so much is simply rinse and repeat.

I really miss the show... ... I never tuned in during the live broadcast but it was something I looked forward to viewing on Sunday afternoon when I had more time. I think Festool will ultimately regret their decision, but of coarse we'll hear nothing of that discussion.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I think Festool will ultimately regret their decision, but of coarse we'll hear nothing of that discussion.

I dunno, if there's one thing I've learned in corporate/industrial life, it's that management always move on instantly and rarely ever look backwards unless they're pointing blame at someone else.

 

[Cheese]

I dunno, if there's one thing I've learned in corporate/industrial life, it's that management always move on instantly and rarely ever look backwards unless they're pointing blame at someone else.

Ya, but that doesn't mean there are no corporate regrets...unfortunately, because of the nature of the beast, it just takes time for those corporate regrets to surface. And in this day and age with the internet, most folks just move on without waiting for the corporate mea culpa.
Me...I prefer to wait for the mea culpa...it makes things much more interesting.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have always thought that the price was indicative of a lot of factors.
*Innovation/engineering: It doesn't cost much to duplicate, even if it is not exact.
*European manufacturing: Just like in the US, it just plain costs more, due to labor and energy costs.
*Consistency: The tools are not only designed to last, in the first place, they are designed to be repaired/maintained. Then the added cost of storing and supplying the necessary parts.
*Lower volume: Even though I have no idea what the real ratio of sales volume to one of the Asian brands is, with any accuracy, I would bet that it is significantly lower.
*Profit margins for dealers? Again an assumption, but all of the ones I have ever visited have a dedicated amount of shelf space. This has to have a calculated cost, per square foot, depending on location. Since the volume of sales is inherently lower, the margin has to be enough to make it worth using the space. Otherwise, they would move something else into it.
*Premium products: The has always been a perception of value, even with a higher initial investment, that the product itself was indeed better, than the alternative. The reason it is "better" might be different for different customers, thus slightly illusive. Some, like me, appreciate the system/integration approach, seeing the efficiency as value. Some would just go for the impression/show-off aspect. Repairability/resale value, and even the warranty are factors too.
*Warranty (even for theft): There has to be a cost involved in honoring that 3-year time frame. They are covering the shipping, parts, and service/labor cost. That has to be built in somewhere. Of course, the better the engineering up front, the less of it there is later, but that still has to be calculated into it. Either way, its effectively insurance, which has a price tag
30 return: That has to cost them too. I'm sure they get a percentage of "renters", who actually don't even pay rent. They just put down a 100% deposit and get it all back, happily just "using" the tool for free. The do sell these returns off again, through the Recon program, but I would doubt it's profitable. I'm sure that they are aware that selling too low hurts the resale value that the used market sees. Keeping that resale value up has to help with the perceived initial value.
Even the fixed price factor: The dealers are not allowed to undercut each other, hoping for volume profit over higher margin.
All of this has to have some affect, though to what degree is debatable.
Overall, I see it no different than if they were American made. The same thing would happen here. Pretty much all of the same factors would apply. American companies have been off-shoring for decades, chasing that low-cost labor.
Case in point, American cars. The corporate offices are still in the same place as they have been, but a lot of the rest has changed. Some models still get final assembly here, but the parts (even sub-assemblies) come from all over the world. Back in the day, the steel, cast iron, was made nearby. The castings/forgings, along with all of the machine work, were done in surrounding states. American cars used to be American made, now they are just made by an American company. They can't all even claim that anymore, Stellantis is in the Netherlands.
People used to be proud of American made products, now they are seen as the expensive alternative.
The Walmart mentality has set in. They want every consumer product for the lowest possible price, yet cry about the wages of the retail employees at the same time? Cognitive dissonance, polar opposite, willful blindness/ignorance.
I try to have a balance in my life. Even though I despise the everything's disposable lifestyle, it is hard to get away from it.

 

[luvmytoolz]

The Walmart mentality has set in. They want every consumer product for the lowest possible price, yet cry about the wages of the retail employees at the same time?

I think the proliferation of seemingly good looking products at a level of availability and low pricing that's just absurd, has really skewed people's ideas of what a good product is.

Many people I know genuinely wouldn't be able to make a judgement call on the quality of a particular item, as they are now so commonplace it's held up as the standard to their minds.

So if everybody's buying X, why would I pay more for Z? Riddle me that Batman! ;-)

 

[MacBoy]

I have always thought that the price was indicative of a lot of factors. …

Well said, Mr. CRG

( please hit the <CR> a few times to aid in readability )

It took me a while to accept the yuk-yuk humor of Sedge while soaking up the valuable tips from the Festool Live episodes.

Thankfully my childhood BFF was a huge fan of the 3 Stooges, so I was conditioned early in life.