Festool/ Mafell Rails

[jeh]

Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better...

The facts (as I see them) are:

1) Once the Festool patents ran out Bosch/Mafell could release their rail.
(In a perfect world there would be a DIN standard for the rails- the world is not perfect)

2) The MT55 can run on a FT rail and is the only Mafell tool that can run on the rail, and then without any tilt as the FT rail is 6-mm and the Bosch 5-mm thick.

3) No FEstools can run on the Bosch rail.

4) Someone with more time than me could probably figure out whether they could make a TS55 base that goes into a Bosch rail...
(I cannot see how that would be bad for anyone except manufactures and sellers of FT rails... and likely an instant warranty buster)

The majority of the reason I started looking at the other saw was rail situation. But many are happy with the FT rails, so it seems more of a personal leaning than fact.

I have both Festool and Mafell saws. The Mafell rails have a better connection system (no need for third party workaround), an easy to change splinter guard (slides in place, no sticker) and include cord deflectors for both ends. The only downside is they are not as rigid as the Festool ones and could be damaged easier if abused (like thrown around). Some other notes:

• Rail prices are about the same as the Festool equivalents though the sizes don't match up exactly.
• There also are availability issues in the US for the longer rails. Rails longer than the F160 (63") are not available. I had an F210 (6.9 ft) shipped from Germany because I like the convenience of one rail for most cuts, however the connector is rock sold so there are not any alignment issues when connecting two or more rails together. I do feel lucky that it made it from Germany 100% intact considering it shipped in the factory cardboard box.
• There is no Festool equivalent to the Aerofix rail.
• P1cc jigsaw works on the their rails.

Mafell is not trying to be a jack of all trades tool company like Festool. They make 1 or 2 models of each tool and some thoughtfully designed accessories. They also have some very unique tools that no one else offers, however their pricing higher and sometimes significantly higher than Festool.

 

[Nat X]

They also have the Aerofix. It's not always useful depending on what and where you're cutting, but when it is, it saves a ton of time.

I sold all my Festool saws after I started making 3" thick endgrain butcher block surfaces and needed much more than Festool was capable of delivering. I miss the cords, and the longer clamps, but not much else. The fact that I can rip 8/4 purpleheart with the little 55mm one without popping a breaker is amazing enough on its own, but being able to clamp right up against the splinterguard is probably the biggest surprise game-changer.

 

[McNally Family]

Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better...

The facts (as I see them) are:

1) Once the Festool patents ran out Bosch/Mafell could release their rail.
(In a perfect world there would be a DIN standard for the rails- the world is not perfect)

2) The MT55 can run on a FT rail and is the only Mafell tool that can run on the rail, and then without any tilt as the FT rail is 6-mm and the Bosch 5-mm thick.

3) No FEstools can run on the Bosch rail.

4) Someone with more time than me could probably figure out whether they could make a TS55 base that goes into a Bosch rail...
(I cannot see how that would be bad for anyone except manufactures and sellers of FT rails... and likely an instant warranty buster)

The majority of the reason I started looking at the other saw was rail situation. But many are happy with the FT rails, so it seems more of a personal leaning than fact.

I have both Festool and Mafell saws. The Mafell rails have a better connection system (no need for third party workaround), an easy to change splinter guard (slides in place, no sticker) and include cord deflectors for both ends. The only downside is they are not as rigid as the Festool ones and could be damaged easier if abused (like thrown around). Some other notes:

• Rail prices are about the same as the Festool equivalents though the sizes don't match up exactly.
• There also are availability issues in the US for the longer rails. Rails longer than the F160 (63") are not available. I had an F210 (6.9 ft) shipped from Germany because I like the convenience of one rail for most cuts, however the connector is rock sold so there are not any alignment issues when connecting two or more rails together. I do feel lucky that it made it from Germany 100% intact considering it shipped in the factory cardboard box.
• There is no Festool equivalent to the Aerofix rail.
• P1cc jigsaw works on the their rails.

Mafell is not trying to be a jack of all trades tool company like Festool. They make 1 or 2 models of each tool and some thoughtfully designed accessories. They also have some very unique tools that no one else offers, however their pricing higher and sometimes significantly higher than Festool.

The idea of the Aerofix system really appeals to me, and will be the next purchase after my saw (Which should be ordered next week).

 

[jacko9]

I did buy the Mafell Plunge saw and track but, I would have gone the Festool route if I didn't have a full shop with Cabinet Table saw with attached sliding table.  The Festool attachments and fixtures are well worth buying a Festool Track saw solution and like I said it would have been my path if I haven't already invested in my shop machines.

 

[Cheese]

Just curious if anyone has used a MT55 on a Festool rail?

If so, was it better or worse than using it on a Mafell rail?

 

[Steven Owen]

The biggest omission on the side of Mafell was not adding a groove into the track for parallels guides to attach to their track. Otherwise their design is the best on the market.

 

[rizzoa13]

Doesn’t their parallel guide system attach to the saws themselves so you don’t have to use a rail at all? Pretty sure my mt55 cordless has that. (N.B. It’s only for smaller rips parallel to the edge, not like the guides that attach to rails)

 

[Steven Owen]

Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better.  I am anxiously saving for the p1cc but some of the really annoying things about my rails I didn't realize Mafell has solved.  That is disturbing, I can't afford to have to save for more Mafell tools, darn they are expensive.

The Mafell made Bosch 470 and 572 Jig Saws will also work on Mafell Rails if you buy the rail Bosch adapter from Britain.  It was designed to work with the Mafell made Bosch Track Saw and it’s rails. 

The Mafell base won’t fit the Bosch Jig Saws the Bolts are in different positions for the foot.

 

[jacko9]

Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better.  I am anxiously saving for the p1cc but some of the really annoying things about my rails I didn't realize Mafell has solved.  That is disturbing, I can't afford to have to save for more Mafell tools, darn they are expensive.

The Mafell made Bosch 470 and 572 Jig Saws will also work on Mafell Rails if you buy the rail Bosch adapter from Britain.  It was designed to work with the Mafell made Bosch Track Saw and it’s rails. 

The Mafell base won’t fit the Bosch Jig Saws the Bolts are in different positions for the foot.

The Bosch Track Clamp is much superior to the Mafell clamp.

 

[Steven Owen]

Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better.  I am anxiously saving for the p1cc but some of the really annoying things about my rails I didn't realize Mafell has solved.  That is disturbing, I can't afford to have to save for more Mafell tools, darn they are expensive.

The Mafell made Bosch 470 and 572 Jig Saws will also work on Mafell Rails if you buy the rail Bosch adapter from Britain.  It was designed to work with the Mafell made Bosch Track Saw and it’s rails. 

The Mafell base won’t fit the Bosch Jig Saws the Bolts are in different positions for the foot.

The Bosch Track Clamp is much superior to the Mafell clamp.

Technically the Mafell base has the best bevel function of any base for a jig saw.  I’ve always felt the bevel functions on jig saw were largely designed for people who don’t want to buy a track saw or a router.  Tools with rotating blades generally cut cleaner bevels.  Oscillating and orbiting blades do a passable job on bevel cuts.  They wouldn’t be my first choice.

The Mafell track saw has my attention.  The fully enclosed blade for better dust collection and the superior tracks are very compelling.  I’d have to do more homework to see how the TS 75 and the Mafell compare for cutting hardwood table tops.  The TS 75 has a depth advantage but how often do you actually use a track saw to cut a hardwood board thicker than 2 inches to begin with?

 

 

[Job and Knock]

Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better.  I am anxiously saving for the p1cc ....

Yes, well, Bosch (actually Lesto) invented the jigsaw - but you are saving for a P1cc (which, by the way, is far better than any Bosch I've ever used). Fein created the multitool, but is it still the best? I have a Fein, but at work we have Bosch multitool. I prefer the Bosch. And what about routers? The modern plunge router was effectively created in 1949 by Elu (now deWalt) with their MOF11 router - but if you use a DW625, which is a good router, as well as an OF2200e, which router is best? Progress, progress

 

[Steven Owen]

Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better.  I am anxiously saving for the p1cc ....

Yes, well, Bosch (actually Lesto) invented the jigsaw - but you are saving for a P1cc (which, by the way, is far better than any Bosch I've ever used). Fein created the multitool, but is it still the best? I have a Fein, but at work we have Bosch multitool. I prefer the Bosch. And what about routers? The modern plunge router was effectively created in 1949 by Elu (now deWalt) with their MOF11 router - but if you use a DW625, which is a good router, as well as an OF2200e, which router is best? Progress, progress

It’s tough to compare the Bosch 572 to the Mafell pc11 regardless of their similarities.  Bosch buys most of their jig saw parts from Mafell; the finally package assembly is done in Hungry.  It’s  has the same motor.  The motor is really one of about hundred parts that make up a jig saw. 

The Mafell has a superior blade stabilization system that allows the same motor to cut much faster without loosing accuracy.  Whether people appreciate it or not, it’s the blade stabilization system that accounts for the price differences between many jig saws. 

 

[yetihunter]

Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better.  I am anxiously saving for the p1cc but some of the really annoying things about my rails I didn't realize Mafell has solved.  That is disturbing, I can't afford to have to save for more Mafell tools, darn they are expensive.

The Mafell made Bosch 470 and 572 Jig Saws will also work on Mafell Rails if you buy the rail Bosch adapter from Britain.  It was designed to work with the Mafell made Bosch Track Saw and it’s rails. 

The Mafell base won’t fit the Bosch Jig Saws the Bolts are in different positions for the foot.

The Bosch Track Clamp is much superior to the Mafell clamp.

Technically the Mafell base has the best bevel function of any base for a jig saw.  I’ve always felt the bevel functions on jig saw were largely designed for people who don’t want to buy a track saw or a router.  Tools with rotating blades generally cut cleaner bevels.  Oscillating and orbiting blades do a passable job on bevel cuts.  They wouldn’t be my first choice.

The Mafell track saw has my attention.  The fully enclosed blade for better dust collection and the superior tracks are very compelling.  I’d have to do more homework to see how the TS 75 and the Mafell compare for cutting hardwood table tops.  The TS 75 has a depth advantage but how often do you actually use a track saw to cut a hardwood board thicker than 2 inches to begin with?

Whether 27mm or 36mm hose, I have not noticed any difference between the
Mafell and Festool (55) tracksaws on dust collection.    If you're swapping out different blades, like myself, that's where the MT55 won my heart. 

I can't speak on the ts75, but I can tell you that the Mafell will happily trip a 20amp
breaker if you make a stupid mistake, whereas the Festool would probably just stop itself from doing so. 

 

[Steven Owen]

Didn't Festool invent track plunge rail saws?  Seems strange that the Mafell rails are so much better.  I am anxiously saving for the p1cc but some of the really annoying things about my rails I didn't realize Mafell has solved.  That is disturbing, I can't afford to have to save for more Mafell tools, darn they are expensive.

The Mafell made Bosch 470 and 572 Jig Saws will also work on Mafell Rails if you buy the rail Bosch adapter from Britain.  It was designed to work with the Mafell made Bosch Track Saw and it’s rails. 

The Mafell base won’t fit the Bosch Jig Saws the Bolts are in different positions for the foot.

The Bosch Track Clamp is much superior to the Mafell clamp.

Technically the Mafell base has the best bevel function of any base for a jig saw.  I’ve always felt the bevel functions on jig saw were largely designed for people who don’t want to buy a track saw or a router.  Tools with rotating blades generally cut cleaner bevels.  Oscillating and orbiting blades do a passable job on bevel cuts.  They wouldn’t be my first choice.

The Mafell track saw has my attention.  The fully enclosed blade for better dust collection and the superior tracks are very compelling.  I’d have to do more homework to see how the TS 75 and the Mafell compare for cutting hardwood table tops.  The TS 75 has a depth advantage but how often do you actually use a track saw to cut a hardwood board thicker than 2 inches to begin with?

Whether 27mm or 36mm hose, I have not noticed any difference between the
Mafell and Festool (55) tracksaws on dust collection.    If you're swapping out different blades, like myself, that's where the MT55 won my heart. 

I can't speak on the ts75, but I can tell you that the Mafell will happily trip a 20amp
breaker if you make a stupid mistake, whereas the Festool would probably just stop itself from doing so.

Part of the attraction of the Mafell is being able to use the Bosch Jig Saw in their tracks using Bosch’s adaptor.  I’ll just have to keep my fingers crossed the Canadian dollar is stronger when it comes time to buy a new track saw. 

 

[Michael Kellough]

"Part of the attraction of the Mafell is being able to use the Bosch Jig Saw in their tracks using Bosch’s adaptor."

When Bosch introduced their first jigsaw with integral dust collection back in the '80s they also offered a rail/adapter exclusively for the jigsaw. They abandoned the rail very quickly since the blade could not be fixed truly parallel to the track so the blade bent progressively as the saw traveled.

Ever notice that when following a straight line successfully with a jigsaw that the saw's base is not parallel to the line?

For a relatively weak jigsaw blade to track a straight line the kerf has to be substantially wider than the back of the blade. The Mafell double wide jigsaw blade is the only blade that can be predicted to track a straight line successfully. Other blade/saw combinations may occasionally track well but that would be a fluke IMO.

 

[Svar]

When Bosch introduced their first jigsaw with integral dust collection back in the '80s they also offered a rail/adapter exclusively for the jigsaw. They abandoned the rail very quickly since the blade could not be fixed truly parallel to the track so the blade bent progressively as the saw traveled.
Ever notice that when following a straight line successfully with a jigsaw that the saw's base is not parallel to the line?

Excellent point. Jigsaw blades usually meander and need constant correction. Mafell is the only one I've seen that can cut a long straight line in thick material by simply following a guide rail or a straight edge.
I wonder if Mafell blades fit into Bosch saw. Their shank seem to be the same thickness as standard blades.

 

[Steven Owen]

"Part of the attraction of the Mafell is being able to use the Bosch Jig Saw in their tracks using Bosch’s adaptor."

When Bosch introduced their first jigsaw with integral dust collection back in the '80s they also offered a rail/adapter exclusively for the jigsaw. They abandoned the rail very quickly since the blade could not be fixed truly parallel to the track so the blade bent progressively as the saw traveled.

Ever notice that when following a straight line successfully with a jigsaw that the saw's base is not parallel to the line?

For a relatively weak jigsaw blade to track a straight line the kerf has to be substantially wider than the back of the blade. The Mafell double wide jigsaw blade is the only blade that can be predicted to track a straight line successfully. Other blade/saw combinations may occasionally track well but that would be a fluke IMO.

Freud also had a similar blade for perfect cuts on a track, I haven’t been able to find their version for a couple years.  Mafell might be the last option on the market.

The Mafell Track Saw (no track) works out to $1190 CAD with currency conversion and Forex charges.  You’re probably looking at $60 -$80 in tariffs and $60 in custom fees.

If Mafell sold products through a Canadian Dealer like Atlas, the 55 would cost about $1099.  As much I like the Mafell, it’s difficult to justify spending $500 -$600 more than a TS 75 given the odds I won’t be doing any cuts across the full 8 foot of a sheet for any projects.  It’s $600 that would buy another tool valuable to a project. 

 

[Cheese]

Ever notice that when following a straight line successfully with a jigsaw that the saw's base is not parallel to the line?

For a relatively weak jigsaw blade to track a straight line the kerf has to be substantially wider than the back of the blade. The Mafell double wide jigsaw blade is the only blade that can be predicted to track a straight line successfully.

Good observation, I've noticed that issue before but because the cut line was straight, the observation never got beyond the "well that's interesting" stage.  [smile]

 

[Cheese]

I wonder if Mafell blades fit into Bosch saw. Their shank seem to be the same thickness as standard blades.

The Mafell shank will fit into the saw, however it will not engage the blade locking mechanism as the opening needs to accept the extra tang on the side of the blade.

 

[Svar]

The Mafell shank will fit into the saw, however it will not engage the blade locking mechanism as the opening needs to accept the extra tang on the side of the blade.

Bummer. Even if you grind off that tang, the back of the blade is still offset relative to t-shank (will not ride against guide roller correctly). Will have to take on blacksmithing and forge my own thick blades from scratch.  [big grin]
Thanks for posting the picture.