Festool new $99 sander

[leakyroof]

I haven't been reading this forum much these days but found this thread and many others like it.  This deal was news to me.  Already having an ets125, silly me I had to buy this one too.  The stronger motor is appeals to me. 

Forgive me if this has already been covered here or in another thread because I haven't read them all, but won't this devaluate the used values of the old 125's?  ...and isn't anybody worried about it?

. It could happen since there are enough features to make the two sanders stand apart.
Much like the current EC version ETS sander and the older design version.

 

[Xoncention]

There is a special note on the LeeValley order page stating:-

Due to the overwhelming response to this offer, the manufacturer has indicated that order requests may exceed its production capacity. While we continue to take pre-orders, there is a possibility that our order from the manufacturer may not meet our customer demand.

Isn't is quaint that when they try to sell one of their items at a reasonable price, they get a response that breaks their capacity to deliver.  There is a lesson in this for them  [big grin]

 

[Flatsawn]

There is a special note on the LeeValley order page stating:-

Due to the overwhelming response to this offer, the manufacturer has indicated that order requests may exceed its production capacity. While we continue to take pre-orders, there is a possibility that our order from the manufacturer may not meet our customer demand.

Isn't is quaint that when they try to sell one of their items at a reasonable price, they get a response that breaks their capacity to deliver.  There is a lesson in this for them  [big grin]

Yea! The lesson they already knew . "We can produce less and make more money."

 

[Svar]

Isn't is quaint that when they try to sell one of their items at a reasonable price, they get a response that breaks their capacity to deliver.  There is a lesson in this for them  [big grin]

They are selling at this price for the purpose of market penetrationt, likely at a loss. Cant do it forever.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Isn't is quaint that when they try to sell one of their items at a reasonable price, they get a response that breaks their capacity to deliver.  There is a lesson in this for them  [big grin]

They are selling at this price for the purpose of market penetrationt, likely at a loss. Cant do it forever.

Pure speculation.

 

[Svar]

Isn't is quaint that when they try to sell one of their items at a reasonable price, they get a response that breaks their capacity to deliver.  There is a lesson in this for them  [big grin]

They are selling at this price for the purpose of market penetrationt, likely at a loss. Cant do it forever.

Pure speculation.

Perhaps, but then regular profit margin on ETS125 is over 100% (and as much as 200% in Europe).  Do you think its realistic?
You can have this kind of profit on an accessory, but not on an R&D heavy flagship product.

 

[Cheese]

Isn't is quaint that when they try to sell one of their items at a reasonable price, they get a response that breaks their capacity to deliver.  There is a lesson in this for them  [big grin]

Great statement, it resonated with me earlier this evening when I read it while cooking dinner. My question is, Festool, how could you not see that this marketing hurricane was going to hit land mass?

You've been selling this ETS 125 sander forever at the $150-$200 entry level, you're fully aware of the quantity that are presently in service and therefore may need to be serviced soon, so you rollout the same product but with multiple real product enhancements, place it in a special Systainer, offer it for a 50% discount, attach a $50 voucher for future purchases, make it available to everyone, without a limit on the number of individual purchases, and are then stunned when the promotion exceeds your expectations? Really...???
I'd take a good look at your marketing group, there's some dysfunctionally there. The engineers and designers get it, the marketeers...not so much.  [sad] [sad] [sad]

 

[Brice Burrell]

Isn't is quaint that when they try to sell one of their items at a reasonable price, they get a response that breaks their capacity to deliver.  There is a lesson in this for them  [big grin]

They are selling at this price for the purpose of market penetrationt, likely at a loss. Cant do it forever.

Pure speculation.

Perhaps, but then profit margin on ETS125 is over 100% (and as much as 200% in Europe).  Do you think its realistic?
You can have this kind of profit on an accessory, but not on an R&D heavy flagship product.

The price includes shipping, profit for the dealer, Festool USA, Festool GmbH & Co., TTS and so on... None of us know the pricing, I admit I don't, so could very well be right.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Isn't is quaint that when they try to sell one of their items at a reasonable price, they get a response that breaks their capacity to deliver.  There is a lesson in this for them  [big grin]

Great statement, it resonated with me earlier this evening when I read it while cooking dinner. My question is, Festool, how could you not see that this marketing hurricane was going to hit land mass?

You've been selling this ETS 125 sander forever at the $150-$200 entry level, you're fully aware of the quantity that are presently in service and therefore may need to be serviced soon, so you rollout the same product but with multiple real product enhancements, place it in a special Systainer, offer it for a 50% discount, attach a $50 voucher for future purchases, make it available to everyone, without a limit on the number of individual purchases, and are then stunned when the promotion exceeds your expectations? Really...???
I'd take a good look at your marketing group, there's some dysfunctionally there. The engineers and designers get it, the marketeers...not so much.  [sad] [sad] [sad]

Great post, as always Cheese.  This is Festool right now. [doh]

 

[mouppe]

I snapped up one of the sanders very quickly, even though I have a perfectly good ETS 125. I may or may not use the voucher-it's unimportant to me.

But I think Festool's reasoning behind the very low, almost certainly loss-making price, is to get new users into Festool- maybe they will go on to buy a dust extractor, and of course abrasives. It's a limited edition production run, so Festool would have known what their total cost would have been.

Most printer companies sell their printers at a loss, and make their profit through the ink cartridges.

It think it's terrific that Festool run out-of-this-world promotions from time to time. It gets everyone excited and allows us to refresh our tools for a small outlay.

 

[Svar]

Isn't is quaint that when they try to sell one of their items at a reasonable price, they get a response that breaks their capacity to deliver.  There is a lesson in this for them  [big grin]

They are selling at this price for the purpose of market penetrationt, likely at a loss. Cant do it forever.

Pure speculation.

Perhaps, but then profit margin on ETS125 is over 100% (and as much as 200% in Europe).  Do you think its realistic?
You can have this kind of profit on an accessory, but not on an R&D heavy flagship product.

The price includes shipping, profit for the dealer, Festool USA, Festool GmbH & Co., TTS and so on... None of us know the pricing, I admit I don't, so could very well be right.

The price on the promotional item includes exact same things. Someone is taking the hit. And its not dealers or UPS.  Profit margin on an established driver product of 100-200% in the power tool world is insane.

 

[Cheese]

Great post, as always Cheese.  This is Festool right now. [doh]

Thanks Brice...and this Festool Pro 5 epiphany...well, I'm at a loss for words, and that pretty much sums it up. [2cents]

 

[Brice Burrell]

The price on the promotional item includes exact same things. Someone is taking the hit. And its not dealers or UPS.  Profit margin on an established driver product of 100-200% in the power tool world is insane.

There's one flaw in your thinking, and that is Festool's pricing is sane. [tongue] [big grin]

 

[Cheese]

But I think Festool's reasoning behind the very low, almost certainly loss-making price, is to get new users into Festool- maybe they will go on to buy a dust extractor, and of course abrasives. It's a limited edition production run, so Festool would have known what their total cost would have been.

I agree 100% that the sales of this sander will incur multiple opportunities for Festool to further their market penetration. Unfortunately, the methodology they used in rolling out this product is suspect. This was to be a loss leader (although in altruistic terms, this item doesn't really lose money, rather it breaks even at a minimum...which is OK) The issue is, Festool ran this promotion focused on those craftsman that wanted the Festool experience, but couldn't or wouldn't spend the additional $$ for Festool tools. Yet, they decided to open it up to everyone, no-holds barred. Kind of like "the rules are........there are no rules."
The result...the Fog grouping, the contractors that already owned Festool items, the Festool groupies, the re-sellers on eBay and everyone already in-the-know, ordered sanders and often times multiples of them.
The group left standing naked...the original group that marketing targeted because they don't hang with the Festool crowd, because they aren't part of the Festool crowd.

They aren't part of the FOG, they don't visit Woodcraft every 2-3 days, they just load up their equipment (choose the manufacturer) and go to the next job. They want to try the Festool experience but sorry...no PRO 5's left for you guys.

 

[Bob Marino]

Well, we are all waiting on updates from Festool later in the week, keeping our fingers crossed.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Well, we are all waiting on updates from Festool later in the week, keeping our fingers crossed.

I hope for their sake they stopped orders in time to save some for the target audience.  At a minimum, in time to cover all the pre-orders would be nice.

 

[JimD]

I don't really know anything about the construction of this sander.  But there is a video on the web of a tear-down on the Festool track saw and the parts are nothing special.  It might still last longer due to better engineering but nothing was used that would help justify the ~2X price.  I strongly suspect that the sander is the same way.  If so, they are not selling at a loss.  Other brands similar sanders are typically less than $99.  But to know this, it would be useful to tear one down to examine it.

The policy of not allowing outlets to discount Festools is another strong indication that Festool is just trying to maximize profits instead of market share.  They want the premium price point and do some things, like the sustainers, to help justify it.  They also do some great engineering of their tools helping to move the design of other brands forward too.  I wish they had a different pricing philosophy but their premium price helps to create their premium reputation and that is where they want to be.

 

[junk731]

Many companies along with Festool are truly underestimating the power of the internet and these type of Forums. This deal is a complete joke if the intention was to bring newbies into the Festool line. There was no chance for anyone not already connected to Festool. Something like this has to be run for months, not days and should include all dealers worldwide. What they have done is autriscise the non North American community. They may have completely sold the current production but to what end. There are definitely some rocket scientists working in Festool marketing. And yes I did take a chance that this version might actually work to expectations. Fingers crossed.

John

 

[ActionJack]

Well I just got back from a hunting trip and saw the ad for this.  I don't own any Festool items yet and was gonna jump on this.  Well I'm a day late and a dolllar short.  I hope they decide to continue this sale.  In the mean time I'm still saving for my 1400 router and dust collector. 

 

[plaidma1]

This is like a dream come true: a post about Festool and economics together!  My two cents:

1.  Don't feel too bad if you are the noob who didn't act fast enough to get your sander at such a great price.  The presence of this deal will put downward pressure on the secondary market, no matter what.  Imagine what ebay will look like on November 2nd: three hundred of these "NIB Sanders!", and someone is going to want to move theirs fast enough that they will take... shoot; couldn't I take $80 and still be happy, as long as I keep the $50 voucher for myself?  Cheer up, the market will provide!

2.  I cringe whenever someone tries to guess how much someone else should charge for a product.  When you are a buyer, try to take comfort in your happiness about the deal you are getting, without worrying too much about what the other guy is making.  Think of the flip side: if someone buys your hand-crafted wood product, aren't they buying materials that they could have sawed off a tree themselves?  Wood is free if you pick it up off the forest floor!  Why do you charge so much?  Its because the value of the good is much (much) more than the raw materials used to make it.  Sometimes, its the ingenious way the raw materials are combined; sometimes its the attention to detail or attention to the market that produces a product perfect for the target audience; sometimes its the artistry and craftsmanship of the maker.  If we thought Festools were overpriced, we wouldn't be here!

Thanks!