Festool new $99 sander
- Thread starter shdesign3
- Start date
Seems to me that this sander is going to have to be regularly priced at $99 moving forward till the next price increase.
Assuming the factory can churn out container loads of them
This will do several things:
- satisfy thirst for 125mm sanders that seems to preside at the FOG
- quell the run on stock and ease order process systems, because there won't be an immediate need to bum rush the doors for a black friday like deal. If one can reasonable expect to get a pro5 next month or in Dec. and Jan. for $99 - They won't need to drop what they're doing to go order one (or ten) and then blog about seizing the crazy stoopid cheap festooooool bargain deal.
- It will protect the integrity of the brand because it will curtail the speculators flooding the secondary market with these sanders for a profit. I doubt many of these types are going to sell the sander for $80 even without the voucher . And, why buy from Freddie's FleaBay when BobM, Shane or your local Woodcraft has the same thing - and maybe for less $$$ ?
- allow newbies to discover the brand and join the club without having to be in the right spot on the right day at the right time. They can go to their dealer at their leisure and get one.
- It will save Festool having to awkwardly explain why that newbie, or even loyal customer that may have been away last week is having to pay nearly double the original price of the sander because professional deal hounds scooped up the majority of the inventory. You want me join the club but I can't now because I wasn't on the list ?
- It will preserve the relative high value of used Festools in the secondary market because there won't be a flood of product. The new customer won't get gouged by a middleman, and the long term user can still reasonably expect the value of his tools to remain intact. Festool's image won't take a hit because someone casually asks: "wonder why I see these used Festool sanders for sale all over the place ? I wonder if there's something wrong with them ? "
- The desired effect of luring newbies into the fold will be permanently maintained because it will be relatively easy for them to choose and afford the Festool over the competition when it is priced only $20 more than a Dewalt, Makita or Bosch. I'd think it'd be a sale's/marketer's wet dream. It's a lot easier for a tradesman or accountant to rationalize (and pay for) 20% or $20 more for a better tool than it is to wrap one's head around $100 or 150% more [eek] [eek]
Assuming the factory can churn out container loads of them
This will do several things:
- satisfy thirst for 125mm sanders that seems to preside at the FOG
- quell the run on stock and ease order process systems, because there won't be an immediate need to bum rush the doors for a black friday like deal. If one can reasonable expect to get a pro5 next month or in Dec. and Jan. for $99 - They won't need to drop what they're doing to go order one (or ten) and then blog about seizing the crazy stoopid cheap festooooool bargain deal.
- It will protect the integrity of the brand because it will curtail the speculators flooding the secondary market with these sanders for a profit. I doubt many of these types are going to sell the sander for $80 even without the voucher . And, why buy from Freddie's FleaBay when BobM, Shane or your local Woodcraft has the same thing - and maybe for less $$$ ?
- allow newbies to discover the brand and join the club without having to be in the right spot on the right day at the right time. They can go to their dealer at their leisure and get one.
- It will save Festool having to awkwardly explain why that newbie, or even loyal customer that may have been away last week is having to pay nearly double the original price of the sander because professional deal hounds scooped up the majority of the inventory. You want me join the club but I can't now because I wasn't on the list ?
- It will preserve the relative high value of used Festools in the secondary market because there won't be a flood of product. The new customer won't get gouged by a middleman, and the long term user can still reasonably expect the value of his tools to remain intact. Festool's image won't take a hit because someone casually asks: "wonder why I see these used Festool sanders for sale all over the place ? I wonder if there's something wrong with them ? "
- The desired effect of luring newbies into the fold will be permanently maintained because it will be relatively easy for them to choose and afford the Festool over the competition when it is priced only $20 more than a Dewalt, Makita or Bosch. I'd think it'd be a sale's/marketer's wet dream. It's a lot easier for a tradesman or accountant to rationalize (and pay for) 20% or $20 more for a better tool than it is to wrap one's head around $100 or 150% more [eek] [eek]
sofa_king_rad
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i would love to have one, hopefully this deal becomes available again soon.
[2cents]
I was able to get my order in at my local Woodcraft just prior to Festool's 'memorandum'. At that time I was told that they had pre-ordered 50 units for the store. Mine was #19. So there is/was a chance for others to get in on the offer from dealer's pre-order inventory.
I wasn't actually looking to buy one of these,.... yet at the same time, how could could I not at that price? [big grin]
I was able to get my order in at my local Woodcraft just prior to Festool's 'memorandum'. At that time I was told that they had pre-ordered 50 units for the store. Mine was #19. So there is/was a chance for others to get in on the offer from dealer's pre-order inventory.
I wasn't actually looking to buy one of these,.... yet at the same time, how could could I not at that price? [big grin]
Wooden Skye
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antss said:
This is a really great post, may be one of if not the most logical about this new sander.
[member=7442]harry_[/member] - do you know if they took pre orders for all 50 at your store ?
Trying to read the the tea leaves from some of the online dealer's comments, I'm guessing the pre-orders may be over permanently. The sanders will arrive Nov.1 and go out to those spoken for already with the rest remaining in the dealer's inventory for walk ups. If they're remaining. This would allow for relationship building at the store and allow for an accessory add on sale like a box or two of paper or getting the newbie thinking about that tool actuated vac.
This would work for the online guys too; to a lesser extent. A suggestion from the mother ship for a limit on the special deal of 1 or 2 per customer would also curtail the fever.
Trying to read the the tea leaves from some of the online dealer's comments, I'm guessing the pre-orders may be over permanently. The sanders will arrive Nov.1 and go out to those spoken for already with the rest remaining in the dealer's inventory for walk ups. If they're remaining. This would allow for relationship building at the store and allow for an accessory add on sale like a box or two of paper or getting the newbie thinking about that tool actuated vac.
This would work for the online guys too; to a lesser extent. A suggestion from the mother ship for a limit on the special deal of 1 or 2 per customer would also curtail the fever.
"- The desired effect of luring newbies into the fold will be permanently maintained because it will be relatively easy for them to choose and afford the Festool over the competition when it is priced only $20 more than a Dewalt, Makita or Bosch. I'd think it'd be a sale's/marketer's wet dream. It's a lot easier for a tradesman or accountant to rationalize (and pay for) 20% or $20 more for a better tool than it is to wrap one's head around $100 or 150% more "
This argument only holds if Festool starts selling more and more other tools are such low prices. I do not see that happening at all. This sale could backfire with some people because it will raise the question of why other Festool products are so much higher in price if they could afford to sell this sander so cheaply.
I also wonder what happens to the dealer profit for this sale. If the percentage stays the same, the dollar profit for each sander is a lot less even though the effort to handle the sale is similar. The main advantage is not having to carry inventory costs.
This argument only holds if Festool starts selling more and more other tools are such low prices. I do not see that happening at all. This sale could backfire with some people because it will raise the question of why other Festool products are so much higher in price if they could afford to sell this sander so cheaply.
I also wonder what happens to the dealer profit for this sale. If the percentage stays the same, the dollar profit for each sander is a lot less even though the effort to handle the sale is similar. The main advantage is not having to carry inventory costs.
@ jimbo51 - I agree with much of what you say except that I don't think Festool will, or even has to lower prices across the board to "lure" in a new group. One or two items would be enough. The CXS would be the other likely candidate.
If you get a sander and a drill in the hands of the next level of buyer without too much of a financial hurdle to them, then you'll start to get them hooked on system or kool aid if you will. But, you gotta get em used to liking and becoming attached to the performance, longevity and aura of the tools and the organizational advantages of the systainers.
Few people, even FOGers, just went out a bought a whole shop's worth of tools and xtra systainers for their handtools + non-festools, and sortainers for their fasteners when Festo first landed here. They still didn't even after the gear started showing up in Fine Woodworking and other mags. It had to get in the hands of guys to use them and BUILD momentum. Expanding the distribution, along with some TV and Internet exposure surely helped . It still took time , despite what the consumer thought of the stuff at first blush. You all didn't just run out and buy it by the sysport loads.
Bottom line, you gotta get the stuff in more hands, and that's much harder to do now because of the pricing. Having a very select few items that allow easy entry still allows a high overall margin yet doesn't cheapen the brand for the core customer but allows festool to tap another market. I've mentioned the free crack sample before. As a business owner I want you long term, and sometimes have to whip the salesweasels to get them to look beyond this month's paycheck. It wasn't an easy task selling festool and convincing the upper level of food chain to come aboard. Imagine the task now chasing the next level that just doesn't have access to the financial resources that the current core customer does coupled with the same knee jerk reaction of "boy that's expensive" common to both groups.
If you get a sander and a drill in the hands of the next level of buyer without too much of a financial hurdle to them, then you'll start to get them hooked on system or kool aid if you will. But, you gotta get em used to liking and becoming attached to the performance, longevity and aura of the tools and the organizational advantages of the systainers.
Few people, even FOGers, just went out a bought a whole shop's worth of tools and xtra systainers for their handtools + non-festools, and sortainers for their fasteners when Festo first landed here. They still didn't even after the gear started showing up in Fine Woodworking and other mags. It had to get in the hands of guys to use them and BUILD momentum. Expanding the distribution, along with some TV and Internet exposure surely helped . It still took time , despite what the consumer thought of the stuff at first blush. You all didn't just run out and buy it by the sysport loads.
Bottom line, you gotta get the stuff in more hands, and that's much harder to do now because of the pricing. Having a very select few items that allow easy entry still allows a high overall margin yet doesn't cheapen the brand for the core customer but allows festool to tap another market. I've mentioned the free crack sample before. As a business owner I want you long term, and sometimes have to whip the salesweasels to get them to look beyond this month's paycheck. It wasn't an easy task selling festool and convincing the upper level of food chain to come aboard. Imagine the task now chasing the next level that just doesn't have access to the financial resources that the current core customer does coupled with the same knee jerk reaction of "boy that's expensive" common to both groups.
ActionJack
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I went to my local Woodcraft today in the hopes some of these were being held back for walk-in sales. I was told that they are being shipped less than they expected and will not even have enough for everyone that preordered. They also do not anticipate Festool to continue the promotion. Sad panda.
In deference to Seth Semen's request to keep "on track" with the "sales & dealer promoton" I'm wondering if some are being a mite naive in regard to the company's intentions. Maybe this is indeed a "hearts & minds" propaganda exercise, or maybe a philanthropic exercise specific to North American customers as a heartfelt apology & obeisance for the spectacular debacle of their mishandling of the appalling performance of their toy Kapex saws.
Is the failure rate actually 33%?? If so then I can understand the sander "giveaway". As an exercise it's much cheaper to be subsidising cheap sanders than refunding owners for their machine failures. But if so, then why not send free sanders & vouchers direct to the unfortunate Kapex owners instead of selling at subsidised prices to all & sundry. Better yet, withdraw the abysmal excuse of a tool from the market and give all existing customers their money back!
Yet again the company seems to have effectively snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Instead of creating goodwill and positivity, the reverse may in fact be true.
I'll be EXTREMELY surprised if the company will actually deliver the amount of sanders ordered and back ordered to the North American market. I will be similarly surprised if the demand generated by this exercise will be honoured even in part.
The numbers don't gel. To sell a tool for $99 bundled together with a $50 voucher denotes a TOTAL cost of production, including manufacturing costs, freight, manufacturer and dealer profit margins AND amortised warranty repair expenses of
Is the failure rate actually 33%?? If so then I can understand the sander "giveaway". As an exercise it's much cheaper to be subsidising cheap sanders than refunding owners for their machine failures. But if so, then why not send free sanders & vouchers direct to the unfortunate Kapex owners instead of selling at subsidised prices to all & sundry. Better yet, withdraw the abysmal excuse of a tool from the market and give all existing customers their money back!
Yet again the company seems to have effectively snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Instead of creating goodwill and positivity, the reverse may in fact be true.
I'll be EXTREMELY surprised if the company will actually deliver the amount of sanders ordered and back ordered to the North American market. I will be similarly surprised if the demand generated by this exercise will be honoured even in part.
The numbers don't gel. To sell a tool for $99 bundled together with a $50 voucher denotes a TOTAL cost of production, including manufacturing costs, freight, manufacturer and dealer profit margins AND amortised warranty repair expenses of
Cheese
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HarveyWildes
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aloysius said:
Harvey,
I think that you are correct in how their internal accounting for the future coupon discount will lay out. Coupons or rebates are great for the consumer if the consumer remembers to or does utilize them. Many don't. For those who don't there isn't a hit financially.
I have no internal information on why Festool USA put on this promotion but would suggest that it was also designed to attract and get traction with those in the paint industry. Festool established a separate internal division here in NA to concentrate on expanding their sales of sanders and dust extractors to painters. The PRO5 naming I think was deliberate because I can honestly say that beyond Festool's plan to move imperial here I can honestly say that I do not know of any painting contractors here except perhaps Scot Burt who think in metric. I can imagine that getting a sander into the hands of a painting contractor at this price point with the estimated probability that they would pop for the long life bag and then ultimately use their rebate towards a CT and possibly towards another sander would be very attractive.
If readers look at the various threads here they will see that Festool the company did not make any intro threads - dealers did. The posts here preceded the intro post that Festool USA made on their Facebook page by a couple of hours or so. This offer was not only aimed at those who read the FOG but was advertised elsewhere.
I offer these as thoughts without discounting anyone elses'.
Peter
I think that you are correct in how their internal accounting for the future coupon discount will lay out. Coupons or rebates are great for the consumer if the consumer remembers to or does utilize them. Many don't. For those who don't there isn't a hit financially.
I have no internal information on why Festool USA put on this promotion but would suggest that it was also designed to attract and get traction with those in the paint industry. Festool established a separate internal division here in NA to concentrate on expanding their sales of sanders and dust extractors to painters. The PRO5 naming I think was deliberate because I can honestly say that beyond Festool's plan to move imperial here I can honestly say that I do not know of any painting contractors here except perhaps Scot Burt who think in metric. I can imagine that getting a sander into the hands of a painting contractor at this price point with the estimated probability that they would pop for the long life bag and then ultimately use their rebate towards a CT and possibly towards another sander would be very attractive.
If readers look at the various threads here they will see that Festool the company did not make any intro threads - dealers did. The posts here preceded the intro post that Festool USA made on their Facebook page by a couple of hours or so. This offer was not only aimed at those who read the FOG but was advertised elsewhere.
I offer these as thoughts without discounting anyone elses'.
Peter
HappyCamper
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So I ordered the sander, of course then there's the sandpaper and the soft pad and on it goes....
As to the economics, I think they will make enough money on me from the disposables to justify the sale.
Never could see the big deal about the sustainers, though I have a nice stack of them and do keep my Festool tools in them, but come on, aren't we wood workers, if we can make pull out shelves to stack the sustainers in, we could just as easily make boxes. However, I will be thrilled to receive my new sander which I will keep in its sustainer even thought, darn, the color does not match.
Most folks are voting with their wallets and this tool is now oversubscribed.
As to the economics, I think they will make enough money on me from the disposables to justify the sale.
Never could see the big deal about the sustainers, though I have a nice stack of them and do keep my Festool tools in them, but come on, aren't we wood workers, if we can make pull out shelves to stack the sustainers in, we could just as easily make boxes. However, I will be thrilled to receive my new sander which I will keep in its sustainer even thought, darn, the color does not match.
Most folks are voting with their wallets and this tool is now oversubscribed.
HappyCamper said:
I had several paragraphs written out explaining how systainers can be so helpful until I remembered Seth wants us to stick to accounting intricacies of Festool and their motives. Why? Why do we buy their tools then question they're profit margin? Why do we care if they missed (or not) their target audience on a sander. Maybe I'm not a deep thinker. [big grin]
My mom would say don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I never really know what that meant but it seems a apply here.
Mark
Huxleywood
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The first ones have hit eBay, the seller has 4 @$175
Flatsawn said:
Actually more like the opposite. I posted in this topic by mistake. It was really about keeping some of the debate, speculation, and controversy , etc. from taking over the dealer's announcement topics on the Sales and Dealer board. I think they are all having a pretty tough time dealing with this to begin with, without having their sales topics cluttered up.
Seth
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