Festool Nomenclature

[DeformedTree]

Edit: This thread was forked off from a different thread as it went tangent. The basis was folks un-sure what version of a particular model/tool they were looking at/how to identify. This was not an original post.

Tangent Resumed below.

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If only Festool gave their products better naming like  Like generation naming or something, so people at a quick glance could know what they have, or what something is.

 

[DynaGlide]

[member=68063]DeformedTree[/member] How about "The New Kapex"? It works for Apple with their products.

 

[josiahjlee]

I know what you mean, but respectfully, I would say that would not be a great way to go. Apple does this because they want you to upgrade every time a new version comes out. I will give Festool a bit of the benefit of the doubt here, but I think their strategy is essentially the opposite. They do make improvements and new generations, but they don’t want anyone to feel like their “older” generation is out of date or worthless. They want brand and tool continuity.

And as a result, we get great resale value on tools of we ever decide to sell them. The moment they start adopting the “new model” Apple approach or using generations, resale value could take a big hit. I really think the other tool brands do the generation stuff because they are sometimes throw away tools. No way you’d really try to take much time to sell a well used dewalt impact driver IMO.

 

[DeformedTree]

Apple is pretty good,  in the past with.  Powermac G3, G4,  etc.  Now iPhone 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,  etc

They have stuff that is "mid-2013" and such, it's very confusing to figure out what you have.

 

[Michael Kellough]

When Apple releases a new model it is significantly better than the previous. You are not required to upgrade and your old model works just as good as it did the previous week.

You are right that the resale value takes a big hit.

Few Festool upgrades are substantial. The introduction of the TS 75 to replace the AT 65 is the only one I can think of. Maybe the newer brushless sanders?

 

[DeformedTree]

Yeah, most people understand the changes are small.  Only revolutionary changes will kill value (when they add lights to the routers  [smile]).

Realistically, folks just want to be able to know what they have.  Just like the issue with the SKUs, where they change and people don't know what changed.  It's compounded by the issue that "the box" it comes in gets changed, and that changes the SKU, which most companies products don't have that kind of link to "the packaging".

 

[Cheese]

Few Festool upgrades are substantial. The introduction of the TS 75 to replace the AT 65 is the only one I can think of. Maybe the newer brushless sanders?

Don't forget the Kapex Michael.  [poke]

Talking about the TS 75, it has been removed from the German, Netherlands & International websites and has been labeled as Temporarily Unavailable on the US & Canadian websites.

 

[DeformedTree]

Few Festool upgrades are substantial. The introduction of the TS 75 to replace the AT 65 is the only one I can think of. Maybe the newer brushless sanders?

Don't forget the Kapex Michael.  [poke]

Talking about the TS 75, it has been removed from the German, Netherlands & International websites and has been labeled as Temporarily Unavailable on the US & Canadian websites.

Everything has had to cut back during COVID, thus the boards are thinner now, TS75s are out of work.

 

[rvieceli]

[member=68063]DeformedTree[/member] its not that only thin boards are available, it’s that nobody can afford the inflated prices for thicker boards.  [eek]
Ron

 

[Cheese]

You guys are funny... [popcorn] [thumbs up] [popcorn]

However it won't be so funny when Festool announces their new TS 35. [tongue]

 

[Michael Kellough]

Few Festool upgrades are substantial. The introduction of the TS 75 to replace the AT 65 is the only one I can think of. Maybe the newer brushless sanders?

Don't forget the Kapex Michael.  [poke]

Talking about the TS 75, it has been removed from the German, Netherlands & International websites and has been labeled as Temporarily Unavailable on the US & Canadian websites.

I meant incremental model changes like various versions of the TS 55. New tools like the Domino and Kapex etc. are huge exceptions, more like the iPhone than putting faster processors and more memory in the same box for the same price.

 

[AlexThePalex]

When Apple releases a new model it is significantly better than the previous. You are not required to upgrade and your old model works just as good as it did the previous week.

Apple brings out a new model every year, and the changes are so small you hardly notice them.

It has also been proven that Apple deliberately slows down older phones with sneaky OS patches..

Few Festool upgrades are substantial. The introduction of the TS 75 to replace the AT 65 is the only one I can think of. Maybe the newer brushless sanders?

There was actually an 85 mm model back then, so it is more that the TS 75 was a downgrade in cutting capability, just like removing the AT 65 was also a downgrade because now you only had the TS 55. The new saws were technical improvements of course, but not substantial.

The only substantial upgrade from Festool I have seen is the new TKS-80 with SawStop technology.

I really hope they will once make a TS-65 saw, with a 1500 watt motor. The 55 struggles too often.

 

[DeformedTree]

TKS-80 is just a new thing, not an upgrade to anything.

Deciding what saw size to design/build/market would not be easy.  Finding a balance between size and weight, etc.  Making a 45, 55, 65, 75, 85, 95 saw isn't practical for a company to do.

I'd guess either the TS75 isn't a huge seller and if they are having parts/production/etc constraints, it's a good model to put on hold for a bit. Or maybe a new saw will be coming.  Maybe they will bring a TS85 and unify some parts with the HK85

 

[AlexThePalex]

TKS-80 is just a new thing, not an upgrade to anything.

The TKS-80 is the SawStop equipped upgrade for the CS70. But they realised they could not make it a pull saw and I am sure they deeply regret that they had to settle for a standard table saw.

Deciding what saw size to design/build/market would not be easy.  Finding a balance between size and weight, etc.  Making a 45, 55, 65, 75, 85, 95 saw isn't practical for a company to do.

You should get yourself acquainted with the number of saws other companies produce.

Even Festool used to make a 45, 55, 65 and 85 in the past. In fact, the 65 cut depth is one of the most sold sizes for hand-held circular saws.

65 is just the right size for a man like me, and I am very average in everything, including size. I have a DeWalt DW65 saw and used to have the AT-65, and I like them both so much better than the TS-55. The TS-55 is really only good for cutting sheet material up to 28 mm and that's it. Would have helped if the 55 didn't have such a weak motor.

 

[DeformedTree]

I'm well aware of how many sizes are out there. The issue is it's crazy for one company to make a lot of sizes all at the same time. Mafell makes a lot of sizes, but they go from 55 to gigantic.

If festool sold all those sizes at the same time, you would have endless threads here of people debating what size to buy. And sales volume of each model would go down.

I think the 55 size is good, most folks are cutting plywood/sheet material with it, so you only are cutting sub 20mm material, and you still have the ability to cut 2x material (1.5" thick). It's a good all around size.  It's when things go bigger, I think some of the sizes are off.  I would make the 85 saws be 90s (well, maybe 95 to account for rail), then you could cut 4x material (3.5" thick). Right now they come just short.  The Mafell Erika is one that makes me wonder, if they made it 90, not 85, then people could get more cross cut function from it.

Like I said, it's finding the right balance. You might like the 65 size, others might think it's way too big. What everyone wants is all over the map.

 

[Svar]

Deciding what saw size to design/build/market would not be easy.  Finding a balance between size and weight, etc.  Making a 45, 55, 65, 75, 85, 95 saw isn't practical for a company to do.

Well, Mafell, a much smaller company makes 45, 55, 65 ,85, 130, 145, 165, and 185 saws and manage just fine.

 

[jeffinsgf]

I'm not sure you can say that the TS-75 replaced the AT-65. When I bought mine, you had three choices, 55, 65, or 75. I went for Mama Bear.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I'm well aware of how many sizes are out there. The issue is it's crazy for one company to make a lot of sizes all at the same time.

The issue is that most of the well known brands make a lot of sizes all at the same time.

If festool sold all those sizes at the same time, you would have endless threads here of people debating what size to buy.

Oh, yes, we'd really hate that here, talking about tools. The idea!  [tongue]

And sales volume of each model would go down.

Irrelevant, if the number of sold saws remains the same. Maybe it would even go up, as people would have more choices. Some of us maniacs might even get two.

I think the 55 size is good, most folks are cutting plywood/sheet material with it, so you only are cutting sub 20mm material, and you still have the ability to cut 2x material (1.5" thick). It's a good all around size. 

No, it is not a good all-round size. It is really only for the small stuff. 65 is a good all-round size. And the lack of power of the 55 means you can forget about cutting lots of hardwoods when you go over 3 cm.

You always seem to be very opinionated about every tool, but do actually have any experience working with them? Have you worked with the 55? It is the least powerful circular saw I have ever had in my hands. It isn't even the 55 mm cut that that annoys me, it's the lack of power. I am sure if I get the chance I'll upgrade to the Mafell MT55.

Like I said, it's finding the right balance. You might like the 65 size, others might think it's way too big. What everyone wants is all over the map.

Since most saws range from 45 to 85 these days, 65 is dead in the middle. 55 certainly isn't. Most people do not want to cut sheet goods only.

 

[mino]

I really hope they will once make a TS-65 saw, with a 1500 watt motor. The 55 struggles too often.

The market is now settled at 160/165mm blades for the "casual" track saws so even the TS75 is "in danger" IMO these days. Would not be surprised if Festool pulled HK85 to US eventually so they can decom the TS75 and have just the HK as the "big track saw" everywhere.

But I can see a new TS55 down the line to match the TSC on power.

 

[Svar]

Metabo KT 18 LTX 66 BL plunge saw is 165mm blade with 61/66 mm depth of cut on/off track. I wonder how they pulled this off. The radius of arbor assembly decreased by ~10 mm comparing to competition in order for it to plunge deeper.