Festool only shops

[Charles Wilson]

I was interested to see if anyone went with a Festool only shop.  By this, I mean no big machines like a tablesaw, bandsaw, jointer, etc.  If you are not totally Festool, what is it that you think that would be needed aside of Festools.

The reason I am asking this is that I am a hobbyist.  I am building things like shop cabinets and a picket fence now because I like to build, cut, nail, etc.  I am always concerned about DC and would like to be able to work in the garage when the weather is nice and when it gets colder to take it to the basement.  Also, I think that the tablesaw is about as a dangerous tool as you can get (hence, I am siding with a rail and guide).  There is still a possibility that I might purchase the SawStop Contractor saw when they become available as I like my fingers very much.  Neither of these choices (Festool or SS) bother me in terms of price because you can't put a price on safety, fingers, eyes, or lungs IMHO.

Thanks,
Chuck

 

[semenza]

Hi,

        You are going to get about a thousand answers to this , because everyone works a bit differently. But if you want to be able to move this from garage to basement or anyplace else for that matter. Then it is hard to go wrong with tthe idea of a Festool only set up.  The TS55 saw, CT22 or 33 vac, and the MFT 1080 will give you portability, great DC, accuracy and cut quality, and SAFETY. You can do with out the table saw if you have this set up.

Seth

   

 

[clintholeman]

Chuck-

I have a cabinet and furniture making business and, aside from a DeWalt planner, have only FesTools and hand tools.  I think I'm pretty efficient and find absolutely no drawbacks or hindrances to anything I've wanted to make.

My shop consists of:  ATF 65 saw, OF 1400 router, Domino, PSB 300 jigsaw, a 125 Rotex and 130 sanders, several guide rails and accessories for the various tools.  I love the way the system works together - almost every day, I tell my wife how much I like my FesTool system.  It is an elegant solution for woodworkers - and, I believe a very cost effective one as well.

I'm just glad my competitors feel the need to get a bunch more equipment, which they have to pay to buy and run. 

And I think TS are a real hazard.  I see lots of guys in the trade who have parts or all of their fingers missing and I don't want to be one - and the culprit is usually a TS.

 

[Eli]

I have a Festool only shop. No big machines. Makita lunchbox planer.
MFT 1080, MFT 800 tables
TS55, 1400/1900 guide rail
CT22
OF1400 Router
jigsaw
Domino
Belt sander
Rotex 150
Kapex
my hand tools
Couldn't be happier.

I had a Dewalt TS in my last shop and had to lug it everytime I used it. This was a 'small' saw. I  sometimes miss it a little, but I wouldn't want to lift it just once more. I've thought about maybe a bandsaw, but it's more a want than a need.

 

[Warrior]

I have in my Festool arsenal:
TS75
RO150
RS400
OF1400
Domino
CT22
2 Shopmade Jumbo MFTs

Non Festool:
Unisaw
6" Powermatic Jointer
12" thickness planer
Fein TurboIII
Makita Li-ion drill and impact driver
bosch jig saw
bosch jig saw w/ coping foot

I just don't understand why one would want a Festool Only shop. It is silly.Surely my TS75 could probably do everything my table saw can do, but why would I want to sacrifice efficiency for it to do so. I love my festool gear and the ts75 does so many things better (faster and more accurate) than the table saw, and I am using my table saw alot less but No Way a I going to try and rip multiple peices exactly the same width with anything else. Especially narrow pieces. Tell me how you can efficiently surface rough lumber w/out a planer and jointer.
Give me a break.
The Festool only shop sounds like a club house mentality which states that only members of festool are allowed entry.
Silly

EijiFuller

 

[Eli]

Festool only shop.  By this, I mean no big machines like a tablesaw, bandsaw, jointer, etc. 
Thanks,
Chuck

I'm not really sure he was implying they should be used to the exclusion of other machines. He's a hobbyist by admission, and wants portability between two semi-permanent setups. Both Clint and I have off-brand lunchbox planers, so we aren't claiming to surface rough lumber with a festool product. I couldn't do that within the Festool range and got a solution elsewhere. You and I both know that under about a width of eight inches, it's harder to rip a lot of pieces without a TS, but I really don't have room for one and don't ever want to have to carry one on site again just for that. Having said that, I sized nine pieces in only a few more minutes yesterday on the MFT. I agree with you that the pursuit of efficiency should not limit you to a single brand. As far as a clubhouse mentality, hell yes. I finally figured out how to boost my own efficiency, and I'm stoked I made the right decision for once.

ps-I like the jumbo MFT's in your TS75 thread. Do you transport them built, or disassemble to move them onsite?

 

[Warrior]

I transported them with out the tops on top of my roof rack.

Eiji

 

[clintholeman]

I find ripping to be an easy task with my FesTools and accurate enough that the some of the local contractors come to me for accurate cuts when they need it.

I think a RS is a waste of space and money.  I don't miss it at all.  YMMV obviously, but ripping 8' X 2" rails and stiles with my Festools takes less time than a TS, so I would not call it inefficient.  Sheet goods are way more efficient with the FesTools. 

Occasionally, I think about a band saw, but have a hard time justifying it.

I met another FesToolian the other day at the lumber yard.  He too thinks TS's are pretty much an anachronism with "The System".

I use the planner to surface boards.  It is faster than a hand plane, though it doesn't do any better job. and I usually do a final finish with my hand planes and scrapper on the furniture.

 

[Warrior]

Clint,
I saw your set up for ripping rails. It's nice. But I would rather not have to set up or built a new jig when I need to rip 12 pieces at 2 11/16" x 13' or  15 pieces at 3 1/8" by 11'.
Sheet goods go to festool.
The Table Saw is so versatile for so many cutting operations and joinery cuts that I could not, would not use green tools alone.

Eiji

 

[womackdesign]

Festool makes Tablesaws. They are just not available here because of the price and exchange rate. I have a CS70 and it's a great saw. Chad

 

[clintholeman]

Anything less than about 36" goes on the MFT, no pain and really fast and repeatable.

But, you say, how about the narrow pieces - pieces narrower than the rail?  A simple piece of ply about 18 - 24" wide X 30" long gives a really easy ripping jig, takes a couple of seconds to set up.  Same for pieces between 24" and 36" only the dimensions are 12" w X 30 - 36" long.

Simply butt them up against the fence, and use it as a base for the guide rail and use your measuring device to determine the width of cut.  I've had TS guys in my shop say repeatedly they couldn't set up their TS any faster, nor more accurately. It really is fast and highly repeatable. 

 

[woodshopdemos]

The parallel guide is way better than most and can be used to give your TS55 or TS75 accurate and repeatable rip cuts - and do what you would do on a table saw.

Here is a page on it:http://www.woodshopdemos.com/fes-par-1.htm

And the parallel guide in use:

 

[Charles Wilson]

Give me a break.
The Festool only shop sounds like a club house mentality which states that only members of festool are allowed entry.
Silly

EijiFuller

No, give me a break.  Geez Louise.  I ask a simple question because I am interested in getting into the system and it seems like I get nailed to a tree for it.  

For some of us, we have limited room and limited budgets as hobbyists.  I don't make my living from this and don't intend I work with wood for the personal satisfaction.  Would I like to go out and buy a $3000 Sawstop?  Definately, but it is not in the cards as I have many other expenses (kids, house, insurance, taxes (lots of them in NY).  

I know that a TS is a great way to do repeated, accurate rips.  At this point, I find the guided rail systems (either the EZ or the Festool) to be appropriate for my needs.  It is a little slower but for me (that's right, FOR ME) but seems like a safer option at this point in my life.

Thanks,
Chuck

 

[Warrior]

Chuck,
You are right. I kind of went off there and I apoligize. To each his own. I was prejudice in my reaction to this thread. I should have looked at it from your point of view not mine.

Clint,
I agree that pretty much of anything that is wider than the guide rail gets ripped with my TS75. And pretty much aything I rip on site gets done with the TS75. I do have a bosch 4000 for site work but I hate it.
When I am in my shop repeated narrow rips get done on the table saw. I recently cut up a bunch of 20mm x 35mm stock for mullions for some french doors and the stock moved so much i needed to go from table saw to jointer to table saw to get straight and accurate rips. It had to be 35mm on each end otherwise the joinery of bridle joints (also cut on the table saw) woud not be tight.

John,
Its just me but there is no way I am going to trust a 12" rip guide attachment to be able to give me the accuracy of a 30" beismeyer.

Eiji

 

[Charles Wilson]

Eiji,

Apology accepted.

BTW - Incredible splice and miters.  Nice tight fit.  I am working on a fence post cover and the plans call for butt joints.  I dont like the look of them and would like to have mitered corners.  I think it will look better.

Chuck

 

[clintholeman]

It is all what you are used to and want to use.  I started as a neanderthal ripping with a bow saw, so tailed apprentices almost always make my mistakes faster. ;D 

I think the FesTool System works very well and very efficiently for everything I do.  I think most folks could use the system and little or nothing else, perhaps a couple of other tools such as a planner for surfacing. In the environment where I work, it is very competitive and costs need to be carefully controlled - I run a business and always keep that in mind.

I just cut some trim molding 6.5 mm X 900 mm for some cabinets on my MFT with no problem - no scrap, about a 1 minute set-up.  And I think most anyone could easily do it that way, I'm certainly no hot shot!!   I think Chuck could do it easily, and without the expense, space requirement, not power consumption of a TS.  YMMV 8)

 

[Corwin]

Hey Chuck,

I think Clint has offered some good advice on how to use the saw.  I use these Festools as a hobby too and have to think that you should be pleased with this equipment enough to join those of us who still ask the question, "do I really need a table saw?"  At this point, I really doubt that I will ever purchase one -- and if I were to, it would certainly be a much smaller table saw than I would have otherwise chosen.  And, as I see it, the longer you work with this equipment, the less you may find you need a table saw.  Why not give it a try before you get that other saw and see what you think.

As to a Festool only shop...  I also have a bandsaw, drill press, lunchbox planer and big boy PC router for table use in my shop.  And an old miter saw in the closet -- set it up at first, then put her away to provide for room for the MFT and company.  So far, this has been more than adequate for my needs and the materials I have used.  While I may find the need to expand capabilities/capacities down the road with additional machinery, I do think the Festool products are now and will remain the focal point of my workshop.

Corwin

 

[Dixon Peer]

Well, this one got a little hot.    I have a professional shop because I have a professional's needs; we build homes and I do a lot of the millwork for them.  I got into Festool stuff about the time they started offering their fine tools in the U.S., and they are a good adjunct to all my other equipment.  I have, in Eiji fashion:

Multiple routers including the small and large Festools
Multiple sliding compound miter saws for jobsite use
Various thickness planers
One Sueri Alfredo 300 mm four knife Tersa head jointer, 4 hp, 3 phase
One Delta D40 table saw, 5 hp split phase.  It'll handle up to a sixteen inch blade (talk about noise in the shop!)
One Sueri Alfredo 10 hp 3 phase sliding table shaper, 1 1/4" spindle, five speeds
One Griggio 18" band saw, three phase, 3 hp
One Delta drill press
One DeWalt 12" radial arm saw (does this date me? ???)
Various battery pack drills, including two Festools with the different chuck attachments
One Bosch barrel grip jig saw, an excellent tool
One Festool barrel grip jig saw
Five of Festools wonderful sanders...I haven't used another brand since
One Domino
Several biscuit joiners, mostly Lamello, the best in my opinion anyway

There's not one thing in the list that I'd willingly give up.  They all serve a purpose, but then I'm running a professional operation.  Certainly one could get by with only Festool tools, they're terrific.  But when one wants to make a large raduised or elliptical crown molding, it seems to me that it pays to have the big band saw and a large shaper.  For surfacing rough lumber, which is the way I buy mine, there's not a better way than to have a big jointer for flattening and a planer to get to finish thickness.  For quickly doing repeated rips of the same dimension, there's nothing that will really replace the table saw.

Summarizing, we all have different needs and ideas about how to accomplish our work.  Enjoy.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Hey Chuck,
Whew, did this get hot?!?!  Let's chill.
I think for most of us, an all Festool shop is pretty much a theoretical concept.  Over the years we have accumulated tools and grown accustomed to them, maybe even skillful at using them.  Many of us who have been making sawdust for a while, and built some skills the hard way have a love/hate relationship with new tools.  That shiny new gizmo may be exciting and sexy, but I feel like a doofus until I build the skill to use it well.

Its interesting to think about, and I truly just don't know if I would have bought my Unisaw (which I love) if the TS55 were available then.  If I were just starting out as a hobbyist now, I suspect there would be a lot more green and black in my shop. 

Right now, my Festool collection is TS55, CT-22, MFT, OF1400, Boom Arm, VS600, RO150, and ETS150/3.  I think all these tools really add value above and beyond their competitors - and they are fun to use!  As the tool acquisition tool jar recharges, I ponder what next - maybe a Festool drill, maybe an MFS, but somehow I just can't get passionate about those the way I did with current tools.  Next time I'm in Woodcraft, I'm gonna arrange for some hands on with the drill and see if I fall in love...

As for non-Festools, the way I work (again just a product of my personal history and how I was taught), a jointer and a planer are necessities, ergo a DJ20 and a DeWalt lunch box.  Wouldn't give up my drill press or my bandsaw for anything.  I've got a chop saw integrated into my lumber storage racks that makes cutting long boards into manageable size safe and easy - it stays.

But about every three months or so I go on a cleaning binge and I always find tools that are gathering dust since I went Festool.  I have set free routers, circular saws, sanders, an FMT jig, biscuit jointer and other stuff that just couldn't cut the mustard.  Who knows what's next?  It would be interesting to look at this again in a couple of years....

 

[woodshopdemos]

I don't think this thread is that hot. On the contrary, I agree with most all the posts. I have a different need than many so my shop does differ in many respects.  I sold my Unisaw this last week and many will think it is heresy...including me. I needed the space and I hadn't used it in a long time. I kid above when I say my next TS will be the one with the granite top. I do believe that I may have to get a TS back in the shop but no hurry and in the meantime I am exploring the "All Festool Shop." It is a name and a concept. Whether it has merit or works, that depends on the persons applications.