Festool quality curve

[sae]

You are right in saying that There is nothing wrong with made in China stamped on your tool.
I just bought some Metabo, another great German manufacture who offers 3 year warranty even on there batteries.
This is all made in China, batteries assembled in Hungary and the quality of this tool is as good as Festool, their customer service was also great and the price for this new tool was a lot less than Festool!
But my Meatabo now comes with "Stigma attached" and for some that made in China sticker just won't do, for others they will look at the quality and price point and just ignore it, like they say, You pay your money and make your choice.

Not sure what you picked up, but I'd say more often than not they keep manufacturing in Germany. There are some odd choices as to what's made in China though.

Out of the cordless that I've amassed:

• Grinders are made in Germany, solid decision. They're market leaders in grinders, no one else comes close. People are willing to pay for their premium grinders and can keep their mfg in Europe.
• Drills, also made in Germany. Love their brushless drill, it's doubles the power of the T18, gives up no weight, and is more compact. Price is more than DeWalt/Milwaukee/Makita, but less than Festool.
• Impact wrench + impact driver are both German too. Their impact wrench is class leading in size/power (for now), price is high but not Snap-On high. Impact driver is decent but doesn't break new ground, it's actually one of their most inexpensive tools.
• Hedge trimmer is made in Germany. Doesn't seem like one of their core tools, but hey, who am I to complain. Price is on par with Makita.
• LED drop lights, also Germany. They're really solid, but this is odd since the Chinese build better LED lights than most this world. Price is higher than Milwaukee/Bosch, but it's also twice as bright. Still cheaper than Festool.
• Jigsaw is made in Germany. They're not as well known as Bosch, but still have somewhat of a reputation from what I know.
• SDS, made in China. This confuses me a little, Metabo has bigger inroads into the concrete world than some other brands (not as big as Bosch/Makita/Hilti, but definitely bigger than DeWalt/Milwaukee), seems odd to outsource this one. Their 36v SDS might be made elsewhere, but both the 18v offerings are made in China.
• Recip saw, circ saw are both China as well. This is predictable (in my mind), not their core business/customer.
  

So 3 of 10 are made in China.

Corded tools, their paint remover and both my corded grinders from them are made in Germany.

 

[Stephen B]

[member=38144]sae[/member]  [member=42735]DB10[/member]
[size=14pt]
Sae, this Metabo is around eight years old and made in China.

This may be a geo/market decision of Metabo as to where certain products within their range are made.

They are not the only company to diversify their manufacturing. Putting together some IKEA yesterday - Blum drawers and runners and other fittings (Austria), cabinet shells (Poland), drawer fronts (Italy).

[attachimg=1]

 

[Bohdan]

Hi Untidy

Just clicked on your thumbnail and it disappeared.

I think that only full size pictures should be used until the FOG is fixed.

I see you noticed that and fixed it.

 

[foolforspeed]

I'm a new Festool owner. I first bought the carvex 420 to see what all the hype was about and I was amazed! So I just purchased the RO 90 with the CT26. So far I'm very impressed.

I have been a carpenter for 40 years and have owned a lot of tools made in China. My last jigsaw was a Bosch and lasted for 18 years. As good as it was I am glad I bought the Carvex. I'll pay the big bucks for quality but if they want to use China to make their tools then I can find "good enough" for far less. Because eventually that's what their tools will become.

Not only will the quality suffer but you will see knock offs appearing on eBay because the Chinese love to steal your designs.

 

[DB10]

You are right in saying that There is nothing wrong with made in China stamped on your tool.
I just bought some Metabo, another great German manufacture who offers 3 year warranty even on there batteries.
This is all made in China, batteries assembled in Hungary and the quality of this tool is as good as Festool, their customer service was also great and the price for this new tool was a lot less than Festool!
But my Meatabo now comes with "Stigma attached" and for some that made in China sticker just won't do, for others they will look at the quality and price point and just ignore it, like they say, You pay your money and make your choice.

Not sure what you picked up, but I'd say more often than not they keep manufacturing in Germany. There are some odd choices as to what's made in China though.

Out of the cordless that I've amassed:

• Grinders are made in Germany, solid decision. They're market leaders in grinders, no one else comes close. People are willing to pay for their premium grinders and can keep their mfg in Europe.
• Drills, also made in Germany. Love their brushless drill, it's doubles the power of the T18, gives up no weight, and is more compact. Price is more than DeWalt/Milwaukee/Makita, but less than Festool.
• Impact wrench + impact driver are both German too. Their impact wrench is class leading in size/power (for now), price is high but not Snap-On high. Impact driver is decent but doesn't break new ground, it's actually one of their most inexpensive tools.
• Hedge trimmer is made in Germany. Doesn't seem like one of their core tools, but hey, who am I to complain. Price is on par with Makita.
• LED drop lights, also Germany. They're really solid, but this is odd since the Chinese build better LED lights than most this world. Price is higher than Milwaukee/Bosch, but it's also twice as bright. Still cheaper than Festool.
• Jigsaw is made in Germany. They're not as well known as Bosch, but still have somewhat of a reputation from what I know.
• SDS, made in China. This confuses me a little, Metabo has bigger inroads into the concrete world than some other brands (not as big as Bosch/Makita/Hilti, but definitely bigger than DeWalt/Milwaukee), seems odd to outsource this one. Their 36v SDS might be made elsewhere, but both the 18v offerings are made in China.
• Recip saw, circ saw are both China as well. This is predictable (in my mind), not their core business/customer.
  

So 3 of 10 are made in China.

Corded tools, their paint remover and both my corded grinders from them are made in Germany.

I picked up a Metabo cordless sliding mitre saw, part of their. New 18v range.
I'd been after one for a while, I would have liked to buy a Festool one but as you know they don't make one.
Got to say I'm very pleased with the saw and the quality, the 5.2 Ah batteries seem to last a good time too.
Metabo are pushing their 18v range hard down here at the moment and to compete with Milwaukee and Makita on a price point it's enevitable that more of their tools will get manufactured in China.
It's been a while since I've owend anything from Metabo, had a 254 mitre saw years ago and really liked that, but you can see where they are saving money on these new saws, it's all in the small detail like removing the zip from the dust bag and putting on a plastic strip, this doesn't effect the cutting quality so I can live with these small penny pinching changes. It's light to carry about and cuts well and that's what counts to me.

 

[sancho57]

You haven't needed to get the tools into service yet. That's when the company shows its true colours

 

[sae]

You haven't needed to get the tools into service yet. That's when the company shows its true colours

I disagree, I'd rather have tools that users can service themselves, with available-to-consumer parts, and don't require special tools or knowledge to service. I'm probably in the minority though.

 

[DB10]

First if ya don't  like Festool don't buy it. No one is twisting anyone's arm to buy their tools or anyone's else for that matter.

Had a discussion with Green Fever yesterday ( another fogger) . We were discussing this thread.
We both agreed that Festool though not perfect is pretty good. People compare Festool with Mafel, but look at the price difference, plus if there is a issue, the customer service with Festool is the best I've seen, in 2 countries.

Try getting the same service from Panasonic or Fien, Dewalt Mikita. You want cheap go buy harbour freight , they got a rear return policy, but you'lol be bringing the tool back every other day . If that's what ya want.

Me I'm sticking with Festool until they prove otherwise.

That was a bit of an over reaction to what I said.
If you were to re read my post, you will not hear me say a bad word about Festool.
So I'm not sure of the need for a personal atack.
The point I was making was, that I bought some Metabo, another great German manufacturer and these new tools were made in China, these tools were of equal quality to Festool in my book, certainly not better but no worse for being manufactured in China. I also said that there is a bit of stigma attached to made in China but for the price, not cheap but on par with Makita, I can live with this.
On another note, Over the years I have dealt with the after service from Festool, Metabo and Fein and I have found both Festool and Metabo to be both excellent, I'm afraid I can't say the same thing for Fein but that is just my personal experience others might have had great after service form Fein.

 

[philphilop]

First if ya don't  like Festool don't buy it. No one is twisting anyone's arm to buy their tools or anyone's else for that matter.

Had a discussion with Green Fever yesterday ( another fogger) . We were discussing this thread.
We both agreed that Festool though not perfect is pretty good. People compare Festool with Mafel, but look at the price difference, plus if there is a issue, the customer service with Festool is the best I've seen, in 2 countries.

Try getting the same service from Panasonic or Fien, Dewalt Mikita. You want cheap go buy harbour freight , they got a rear return policy, but you'lol be bringing the tool back every other day . If that's what ya want.

Me I'm sticking with Festool until they prove otherwise.

That was a bit of an over reaction to what I said.
If you were to re read my post, you will not hear me say a bad word about Festool.
So I'm not sure of the need for a personal atack.
The point I was making was, that I bought some Metabo, another great German manufacturer and these new tools were made in China, these tools were of equal quality to Festool in my book, certainly not better but no worse for being manufactured in China. I also said that there is a bit of stigma attached to made in China but for the price, not cheap but on par with Makita, I can live with this.
On another note, Over the years I have dealt with the after service from Festool, Metabo and Fein and I have found both Festool and Metabo to be both excellent, I'm afraid I can't say the same thing for Fein but that is just my personal experience others might have had great after service form Fein.

I would be very suprised if some of the manufacturing of festool was not done in China, BMW, Audi/VW and Mercedes Benz do and these are far beyond the quality of hand tool manufacturing.

 

[sancho57]

You haven't needed to get the tools into service yet. That's when the company shows its true colours

I disagree, I'd rather have tools that users can service themselves, with available-to-consumer parts, and don't require special tools or knowledge to service. I'm probably in the minority though.

Then why do you buy festools?

 

[sae]

You haven't needed to get the tools into service yet. That's when the company shows its true colours

I disagree, I'd rather have tools that users can service themselves, with available-to-consumer parts, and don't require special tools or knowledge to service. I'm probably in the minority though.

Then why do you buy festools?

I buy what I think is the best value in the market for each tool. So I bought the RO150, and the TS55 (had more previously, but sold them). Service factors in as a zero in my equation because I take pleasure in breaking apart a tool to see how well (or not) it's built. Maybe that's because I'm a gearhead first though, and woodworking fills a need. Festool has a very complete parts catalog and user-purchasable parts which is great, and makes service an even lesser part of the value equation.

I don't ever think I'd buy a tool because it "fills a gap" in a system, it better be a darn good tool in it's own right. That means I own Mirka, Metabo and Bosch as well, since I think their finish sanders, drills, SDS, jigsaws, planers, routers, miter saws, etc. are superior to Festool's offerings. The system approach thing never really made sense to me either (except for cordless tools, which obviously does); other than two or three hose adapters, everything I have works fine together.

 

[sancho57]

So then you don't only buy tools that you can service.

 

[Hiersekorn]

Let me put on my business consultant hat for a moment.

Companies that sell expensive products are always vulnerable at the low end of their price range. There will always be potential customers who WANT to buy their products, but choose a competitor because of price. And, there will always be existing customers who switch to a competitor for the same reason.

One strategy is to sell a "buffer" product that is priced low enough that you catch the "I want the brand, but can't afford it" crowd.

The BMW 3 Series is a perfect example. Face it, the 3 Series is nowhere near as nice of a car as the similarly-priced Hyundai Genesis. If people were choosing solely on quality, nobody would choose the BMW over the Hyundai. (Or the Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc.)

But, BMW has the brand name. And, many people want that.

It gives someone who would never consider spending $80,000+ for a car the chance to "see what all the fuss is about" and dip their toes in the water of Beemer driving. And, for someone who has been loyal to BMW a chance to stay in the brand when they have a financial downturn.

Festool has the same issue. There are a LOT of people who suspect that Festools are great tools, but just can't see spending $600 for a hand drill. They need an entry-level tool that is in the "I'll give it a shot" price range. That's how they get new customers.

And, we need to realize that Festool is getting heel-bitten by a number of competitors. Makita and DeWalt both make track saws that chip away at the Festool market.

And, let's face it. The brushless motor is nice. But, there are other brushless drills out there at a fraction of the price. The REAL benefit of the Festool drills are the accessories. If I had to choose between a brush-motored drill and the Centrotec accessories vs. a brushless drill and a typical chuck, I'd take the brush and Centrotec every day of the week. So, it makes sense from that standpoint as well.

As long as they keep making the high-end stuff, we shouldn't get worked up over the fact that they're buffering the low end. If they make something that isn't up to snuff, then don't buy it. It wasn't intended for you, anyway.

 

[SittingElf]

One strategy is to sell a "buffer" product that is priced low enough that you catch the "I want the brand, but can't afford it" crowd.

Hence the CXS. Low cost, high value! Gateway drug to the rest of the Green machines.... [tongue]

Frank

 

[jeh]

The item made in China is not the tool but a supply item. Longlife-FIS-CT SYS  Order number: 500642.

I would be more concerned if it were a precision tool and not a disposable supply item.

What would the price be if it were made in Germany instead - $350, maybe $400 or more. This item is a ripoff. I don't mind paying for the plastic accessories that are overpriced for what they are, but these bags must have the largest margins of any of their products.

 

[jacko9]

The item made in China is not the tool but a supply item. Longlife-FIS-CT SYS  Order number: 500642.

I would be more concerned if it were a precision tool and not a disposable supply item.

What would the price be if it were made in Germany instead - $350, maybe $400 or more. This item is a ripoff. I don't mind paying for the plastic accessories that are overpriced for what they are, but these bags must have the largest margins of any of their products.

I think this whole discussion is rather amusing considering you are debating weather an item made in Communist China has equal value to a higher price same item produced USA or England or Germany but, some of you same folks don't seem to care that we are spending over 50% of our total national budget to fight the scourge of Communism!

[eek]

 

[AlexThePalex]

One strategy is to sell a "buffer" product that is priced low enough that you catch the "I want the brand, but can't afford it" crowd.

Hence the CXS. Low cost, high value! Gateway drug to the rest of the Green machines.... [tongue]

Makita 10.8v drill + impact driver €199

Festool 10.8v drill €327 for the set version. I don't see the low cost. Nor do I see any "buffer products" in Festool's line-up.

 

[SittingElf]

CXS = $255.00 for basic with jacobs and centrotec chucks
CXS = $305.00 for Set with Right Angle added.

No tax if ordered from out of state.  Europe may be somewhat more expensive due to VAT.

That's definitely entry level.

Frank

 

[AlexThePalex]

CXS = $255.00 for basic with jacobs and centrotec chucks
CXS = $305.00 for Set with Right Angle added.

No tax if ordered from out of state.  Europe may be somewhat more expensive due to VAT.

That's definitely entry level.

Why is it entry level when a comparable tool from another brand only costs $100? I don't get it.

You're thinking in absolute terms instead of relative?

 

[Julian Tracy]

In what world is $250+ for a 10.8volt drill/driver entry level?

Especially considering that the other tool brand's offering in this segment have matured to the point of most being pretty solid little drills and also having a huge ecosystem of other tools that take the same battery...

JT