Festool Seeking Opinions on Warranties and Service

[Matthew Schenker]

Hello everyone,
Festool is very interested in learning your opinion about warranties and service.  The company is asking forum members to share their thoughts about what makes an exceptionally good warranty and what it means when we say a company provides the "best service."

I considered making this a poll, but after some thought realized it would be better as an open-ended discussion.

So tell us...
- Which companies do you feel provide exceptional service and warranties?  These don't have to be a tool/woodworking companies.  They can be any companies, in any industry, that excel in warranty and service
- Why do you think the warranty is exceptional?  Share an example of what makes it exceptional.  Do you have a personal experience, experiences you have read about, or other ideas about this?

Stay in touch,
Matthew

 

[Michael Kellough]

I don't see how Festool can improve on their already superior warranty and service. I've never really had a problem with either. Thus far, my only problem was with their proclivity to improve existing products. Well, not with the improvement per se but the discontinuation of the original part. Festool realized that dust collection would be improved on the ES 125 if they moved to collection holes farther out on the pad and they changed the pads and abrasives to the new design. That left me in the lurch when my old style pad wore out and there was no replacement available and I had a large supply of old style abrasives. Festool resolved the problem by encouraging me to return my old abrasives for credit toward the new stuff. That's pretty good service.

The area that needs real improvement is the web site, the quality/size of the photos and the detail of the descriptions.

 

[Lou Miller]

The area that needs real improvement is the web site, the quality/size of the photos and the detail of the descriptions.

I agree 100% with the above. Festool is really lacking when it comes to descriptions and so forth. With their warranty and service, they don't need to a change a thing. The warranty they currently offer was a big part of what finally pushed me over the edge in terms of my initial Festool purchase. I was very leary of spending the amount of money that they charge, but the warranty length eased that concern for me. Of course, how well the tools actually work is what has been bringing me back over and over again though.

 

[minimal]

Well, speaking to Festool:

The 1+2 warranty is great, really, there's little to improve upon there. (Though I've never had to use it). Maybe just make it a 3-year warranty?  Still, the shipping is a cost I'm certainly willing to share, and am happy to.

But seeing as it has come up, I'll take the opportunity to say: "If your end-users are writing & sharing their own manuals for YOUR TOOLS to supplant the ones you provide, THAT'S A BAD SIGN". Really, there's no excuse for it. You spend all that time re-engineering and getting the UL approval and can't do a decent manual? Come on...it's almost insulting.

That said, I own a lot of your gear, and I suppose no one skipped a purchase because the manual sucked.

I suppose it's just surprising due to the attention to detail you seem to put into everything, while the quality of the manuals implies just the opposite. Maybe this will help motivate you: every time you're about to go to sleep, just remind yourself that dewalt and ryobi have better manuals than you do. Hope that helps! (.5 *  )

 

[Brice Burrell]

 The best warranty I gotten is from Willson Combat, they make semi-custom firearms, the company is know for their 1911 pistols. They don't warranty my buying the pistol, they warranty the pistol, no matter who owns it, for the life of that pistol! I did have a problem with my pistol, I call them, they said send it in. A week later it came back repaired free of charge, they paid for over night shipping both ways. This was three and a half years after buying it.

 I realize that kind of service is hard to match. That being said, I would like Festool to warranty the tool not just for the original owner. I've never had to have one of my Festool's repaired so I don't know how hard it to get Festool do warranty service. I hate company's that give you crap about warranty service, making you jump through hoops first. Make warranty service easy, that is a must. Spare part need to be available for all tool, even the older ones. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but the manuals..... Part of good service is not needing it in the first place, a company the is proactive in problem solving is one I want to give my business to. And please put more information on the website about all of your products.

 

[Michael Kellough]

 
I would like Festool to warranty the tool not just for the original owner.

Good point! If the company has enough confidence in the tool to warrent it for 1+2 years it should be willing to transfer the remainder of the warranty within that period to a subsequent buyer. Festool could also just go ahead and make it a straightforward 3 year warranty as Rigid has done.

 

[Dixon Peer]

As avid birders, my wife and I use expensive high quality German and Austrian optics, and though I have never had to return any of these products for service, I know others that have.  They all rave about the way these things are handled by Swarovski (Austrian), Leica (German), and Zeiss (German).  I know of instances where binoculars were obviously misaligned from having been dropped, and these companies will do a repair for free, recondition the instrument and ship it back within weeks.

On the other hand, I have heard negative reports about the warranty and service doings of optics companies from other countries...you all may infer the country(ies) I mean.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Festool could also just go ahead and make it a straightforward 3 year warranty as Rigid has done.

I take it back, it's not at all clear to me what the terms of the Rigid warranty are.

 

[woodshopdemos]

But seeing as it has come up, I'll take the opportunity to say: "If your end-users are writing & sharing their own manuals for YOUR TOOLS to supplant the ones you provide, THAT'S A BAD SIGN". Really, there's no excuse for it. You spend all that time engineering and getting the UL approval and can't do a decent manual? Come on...it's almost insulting.

I respectfully disagree. No one is producing good Manuals these days. I would say it is because you have to have a manual that appeals to so many languages, but that isn't even the case. The written word takes backstage to everything else. We all get software programs and usually they will enclose a 4 page "How to Install" and once you are on, their help is to help. LOL  It really annoys me that Microsoft publishes Front Page, the web editor I use, and their help on line is a part of MS Office, so any question I have gets responses from word, outlook, and all their other programs...so I have to sort out the FrontPage response which usually isn't applicable. I would love to have a manual written by anyone.
  That Festool publishes a 12 language manual and then supports Festool Users who can write a decent, I mean really exceptional manual, is a great way to handle what is otherwise a real deficit. But that is just my rant.

 

[fcraven]

Whilst working as a vendor representative at the Orange Borg (the non employees who seem to know what they are doing, but aren't wearing orange aprons), I learned about Borg warranties: Bring it in, get a new one.

This kind of warranty may seem wrong. You may think, "that's not what they say." And it's not, but the fact is that If your Rigid tool breaks --even if you were stupid and broke it-- they will take it back. And if you go to a store where they actually enforce the vendor's return rules (very very rare) then try another store, you will find a store to take it back. Now that's a warranty. The little guy simply can't compete. (and yes, the store does loose money, but they "keep" a customer).

But I digress.

The best warranty for tools that I've ever had was from Fein. The had (and, for some tools, still have) a life time service warranty. Before the first year of ownership is up, send in your tool for a complete overhall --for free. Then before 6 months are up, send in your tool for a complete overhall --for free. And the next six month, and so on and so on.  Let your tool get out of warranty  send it in, get it repaired, and you're under warranty again.

Perhaps that's a little over the top, but I certainly used it to my advantage about 10 years ago. Yes, tools are out of service for a while, but once back, they are as good as new.

For the price of Festool products, I simply want a good service (which is what I've always received). Maybe it's been more then three years, but if a part fails or starts acting up, I would hope (expect) that there would be no problem from Festool. I can see them providing a new part, andd if it's not an expensive part, it might be free. Why? because they like their customers, and want their tools to work. Now if I burn out the motor on an out of warranty product I think were in a different category.

 

[minimal]

[snipped my text complaining about Festool's manuals]

I respectfully disagree. No one is producing good Manuals these days. [snipped some text from here too]
  That Festool publishes a 12 language manual and then supports Festool Users who can write a decent, I mean really exceptional manual, is a great way to handle what is otherwise a real deficit. But that is just my rant.

I think we don't disagree as much as you say at first.

I totally appreciate that Festool supports users who write manuals, and those users are just terrific helpful people. That being said, doesn't this seem to be kind of a glaring hole in their operation? And if Festool gave out good manuals, that would not preclude users from writing up their own additional documents. It just wouldn't be *necessary* for the users to do so.

Imagine if your TS55 came with a *great* manual, a truly great manual. A manual as good as their tools are. One that would answer the top-10 questions that we always see here about that particular tool, and give confidence to the new owner of the breadth and depth of the applications.

I'm just identifying the weakest point I can, the warranty is excellent and there's not much room for improvement! Sorry to stray off-topic.

 

[Brent b]

Anecdotally, when I first started learning about Festool from the good gentlemen at Woodwerks in Columbus I was informed of two incidences that impressed the salesmen, and subsequently myself about Festools warranter policies.  The first had to do with solid surface fabricators, whom apparently run their tools hard and long, and just wasted these sanders they brought back.  Festool replaced them, no questions asked.  The second had to do with a concrete fabricator that wanted to use a TS saw to cut some concrete (I know, wtf).  I guess Festool advised him against doing this but he did it anyhow and ruined the saw.  Now using the saw this way voided the warentee, and he knew this, but Festool gave him a new saw at half price, which I thought was pretty cool and sold me on Festool.

The fact that Festool is soliciting our opinions like this is so refreshing.  My experience with tools, and I've bought ALOT, is that you buy it and your basically on your own.  Yes you can get parts, and warantee servicing, but there's a wall between you and the company that you purchased from.  It's 'you' and 'them'.  With Festool it seems more like 'us', and that's very unique in todays market environment.  Fastcap is another company that I think tries to do this, although not as well as Festool.  I believe we'll see more and more companies following Festools lead on this consumer/company integration as Festool takes more market share (when are they going public?)

And lastly, a big reservation I had to get over when 'buying into" Festool was the fact that this company's innovative tendencies would make it's own products obsolete before the working life of that tool was up.  So you buy the ATF, and things are cutting swell, and blamo the TS comes out, and redefines the circular saw, and then several years later 2009 or so, blamo the SVO comes out with CNC capabilities and your still paying off the bill from the TS... I have no doubt I'll be facing this quandary in several years when the next generation Domino comes out, and I just gotta have it to stay productive.  It's the same thing with computers, innovation creates obsolesce.
What I would rather see is some type of trade in program like they do with new cars these days.  If you stay within their service loop you get premium trade in value and can step up when the latest greatest comes out.  Why not do that with with power tools and send the extra inventory down to Peace Corp Africa, and Habitat for Humanity and such.
Brent

 

[Brent b]

Minimal, my assumption with Festool is that they've been at this for awhile and know exactly what they are doing by leaving an open spot in their operation.  There is alot of flexibility within this system of tools, in fact, this is what I think really sets Festool apart, is it's inherent systemic flexibility.  As such I don't think the designers can predict the many different ways people will operate these tools, so they don't waste their time with this.  Instead they support a large dialogue centered around the the many adaptations of these tools.  Besides which, if you had been sufficiently informed out of the box maybe you wouldn't have gone in search of info and perhaps found this great site?
Brent

 

[Mirko]

When I first saw this thread I thought, oh.. here we go", another "blah blah", "I hate this" and "why can't they...do that" type of discussion  :-\

  It seems to be a natural human condition to Criticize Condemn and Complain about the products we buy.

I believe that a companies logic should abide on the assumption that you will NEVER please everyone, with that said, I would much prefer a better tool over a fancy  instruction manual.

After reading Brent B's post it occurred to me: Festool is in many ways like Apple Inc. The products are so good you absolutely can't wait to buy the upcoming products. Both hold excellent resale value, so it justifies buying the new release.

  Apple Inc. and Festool stand out to me as succesfull companies, because they have all there customers selling the product for them.

Festool!! Uber Alles,

Mirko

 

[Paul Franklin]

John

I have to disagree with you for the most part, what about Leigh, I feel they have the best manual, clear and to the point. Unlike some of the Festool ones that have been written, that seem to go on and on, repeating its self, they are good manuals don't get me wrong, but sometimes you need to know when to stop.
I would prefer to see something like the Leigh manuals. And they should come direct from Festool in the case with the tool, when it is released, they took far to long to release the Domino manual, it should have been ready for the release of the tool.

Paul

 

[Daviddubya]

I agree that the Festool warranty is as good as they come.  I had one occasion to use the warranty, and the service was quick and courteous.

Another company that provides a great warranty and excellent service is Lexus.  My wife likes their cars, and we have owned two over a period of many years - they seem to last forever.  There has never been an issue with our Lexus that was not resolved completely and quickly.

Makes one wonder why so many American companies have such a hard time getting it right.  Hmmm.

One American company that gets it right is Dell Computer, but I sometimes have a hard time communicating with their overseas customer service folks.  The last time I had a problem and needed a replacement part from Dell, I got it the morning after I had called.  Pretty impressive.

 

[Mirko]

If Festool made manuals like Leigh they would have to include all the possibilities the said tool can perform, and to me, thats alot of work.
If this was the focus, I would hate for the tool to suffer or even see cost increases.
I have a Leigh jig and without that manual, the jig would just be a bunch of plastic and aluminum, worthless.
I do not believe this is the case with a high number of festools.

Mirko

 

[woodshopdemos]

John

I have to disagree with you for the most part, what about Leigh, I feel they have the best manual, clear and to the point. Unlike some of the Festool ones that have been written, that seem to go on and on, repeating its self, they are good manuals don't get me wrong, but sometimes you need to know when to stop.
I would prefer to see something like the Leigh manuals. And they should come direct from Festool in the case with the tool, when it is released, they took far to long to release the Domino manual, it should have been ready for the release of the tool.

Paul

Paul,
  Leigh does have a terrific manual. I was present the year they announced it. And it came just about 12 years after they started selling their jig. They created it because of the terrific complaints by customers. It is now the "gold standard" and their current machines get a really god manual...i.e. The Tenon Jig without the delay.

 

[Dave Rudy]

I agree with Mirko.  With guys like Jerry Work and Rick Christopherson writing "after-market" user manuals, and with the time and effort of guys like Bill-E and Brice doing videos and pics and explanations, we are SOOOOOOOOOO far ahead of any other tool users on the planet, it's not funny.  We actually SMOKE Leigh by the time we're done (and their manuals are truly phenomenal).

I think we ought to let Festool keep focusing on R&D, and engineering and building quality tools, and let them sub out the technical writing to guys like Jerry and Rick.  Who cares whether the manual that comes in the box is detailed or unreadable?

Then, too, this group is probably the greatest collection of Festool experts in the world.  I have never seen a question asked here that hasnt gotten a far better and helpful response than any off-the-shelf tool manual could provide.

My $.02.

Dave

 

[John Langevin]

Some good points have been raised here. First why shouldn't the warranty apply to the tool and not the owner the tool is the product they engineered and produced they don't have any control over the owner(s) in any case. When they upgrade a particular tool you could have the option of 1. Keeping it 2. Trade it in (as previously mentioned) or 3. Having a transferrable warranty that would help you sell the tool, perhaps to someone who had not taken the Festool plunge. I would have jumped in much sooner if I could have bought a 2 year old tool with a 1 year warranty at half the cost of new.
Regarding the upgrades perhaps (in some but not all cases) they could be dealer or factory retrofitted this would be a great bonus i.e. the Plug-it, I don't see any reason this couldn't be applied to the Rotex (as an example) thus avoiding all the boom hassles discussed elsewhere.
Lastly the quality/knowledgeability of ther dealers. We all know how great Bob Marino is (and I am sure there are others as wonderful) but my local dealer is Woodcraft and they know practically nothing about the tools let alone accessories and forget about spare parts such as a screw.
Regarding the manuals, as long as our treasured gurus (you know who you are) are willing to produce extraordinarily useful manualsfor free (to us)! then I am fine with it. However when I pay anywhere from $20 to 150 for an accessory and receive nothing meaningful to help use it at all then I have a problem (example the 1010 fine adjuster).
Lastly all of their tools are not designed/engineered to the same high standard i.e. the radius guide for the Trion, at $22 the could have etched a metric (or inch) scale on it. The worst (in my mind) is the bevel adjustment on the Trion saw, I would hate to do a stackup tolerance study on the angular markings and their actula relationship to the base and the saw blade.
Festool is still the best of any tool company I have dealt with. The thing is when they set the bar that high we somehow expect them to keep raising it through continuous improvement, I don't think the they got to where they are today by settling for 'good enough'.
I hope everyone will accept these comments in the spirit in which they are written.