Bob Childress
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- Apr 4, 2007
- Messages
- 121
Amen.
Festool Seeking Opinions on Warranties and Service
- Thread starter Matthew Schenker
- Start date
Jesse Cloud
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- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 1,746
This may not be exactly on topic, but I think Festool could improve service by reviewing its spare parts process. I recently damaged one of the two templates for through dovetails used on the VS600. Totally my fault,not a warranty issue. I had hoped to get a replacement for the damaged template (not buy the whole set new). The part was not in stock and had to be ordered from Germany. Apparently spare parts are replenished only once a month. It took a month to get the replacement part. I worked around the delay by moving the sequence of planned projects, but it makes me a little nervous thinking I could have been in a real bind. By comparison, I got an obscure part for my Frigidaire dishwasher and a part for my Bosch router with same day or two day turnaround. The Festool technician I spoke with was very competent and wanted to help, but the process held us back.
Hope this helps!
Hope this helps!
Ned Young said:Michael Kellough said:.do you have airbags in your car Bill?
If he wants to drive anything newer than an '89, he doesn't have any choice.
Ned
Personally, I like to drive pre 1965 cars...that way I wont have to put up with the inconvenience of seat belts or air bags
Mirko
LaserGecko
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- Joined
- Jan 26, 2007
- Messages
- 161
A few quick comparisons with some warranty issues I've had in the past year or so.
Festool - (as noted elsewhere on the forum) Bought the edge guide for the 1400 router. The dust collection chute was not included. A call to the local dealer was unconclusive. The call to Festool USA confirmed that a batch was boxed without the chute included. The rep asked where I purchased it so he could follow up with that location to ensure their remaining unit didn't have the same problem. That's what you call on the ball! No proof of purchase required. No faxing, etc. The part arrived at my house a couple of days later. Thumbs way up.
RAM Mounts - excellent aftermarket "mount anything to anything else" products for use mainly with mobile electronics. Lifetime warranty. Their 4" rubber suction cup failed after two years straight on my windshield (in Las Vegas). When I removed it, there was a little strip of rubber left on the glass. The local dealer (GPS Sh..I mean City) were real jerks about doing a courtesy return. Consequently, I lost it in my garage for a couple years. After I found it again, I called RAM Mount, explained what happened. The guy said I could email a photo of the damage to him. About twenty minutes later, I received an email with the tracking number for my replacement unit. Thumbs way up, again.
Whia Tools USA - One of my Magic hex drivers (screw holding) lost its magic when the spring came out of the head. Even though I had some excellent macro photos showing the removed spring and the non-abused head, they still want me to send the driver to them for replacement.
Obviously, a different breed of Germans is in charge at Whia. I expected more, especially considering the price of the tools.
Desert Nissan, Las Vegas, NV - Took in my 02 XTerra because the lower arm of the steering box was damp with fluid (before the warranty expires in September). Told them specifically what was wrong. Completely ignored my instructions and "could not find any leaks". When the tech finally came back from lunch, he said he never even checked the steering box. When I smeared my finger across the wet dirt, he said "Well, when they gets old, they weep a little like dat."
"So," I replied, "the steering box is supposed to leak fluid???"
Needless to say, getting them to agree to replace it took another thirty minutes. Grrrr.
Hope that helps, Christian!
Festool - (as noted elsewhere on the forum) Bought the edge guide for the 1400 router. The dust collection chute was not included. A call to the local dealer was unconclusive. The call to Festool USA confirmed that a batch was boxed without the chute included. The rep asked where I purchased it so he could follow up with that location to ensure their remaining unit didn't have the same problem. That's what you call on the ball! No proof of purchase required. No faxing, etc. The part arrived at my house a couple of days later. Thumbs way up.
RAM Mounts - excellent aftermarket "mount anything to anything else" products for use mainly with mobile electronics. Lifetime warranty. Their 4" rubber suction cup failed after two years straight on my windshield (in Las Vegas). When I removed it, there was a little strip of rubber left on the glass. The local dealer (GPS Sh..I mean City) were real jerks about doing a courtesy return. Consequently, I lost it in my garage for a couple years. After I found it again, I called RAM Mount, explained what happened. The guy said I could email a photo of the damage to him. About twenty minutes later, I received an email with the tracking number for my replacement unit. Thumbs way up, again.
Whia Tools USA - One of my Magic hex drivers (screw holding) lost its magic when the spring came out of the head. Even though I had some excellent macro photos showing the removed spring and the non-abused head, they still want me to send the driver to them for replacement.
Obviously, a different breed of Germans is in charge at Whia. I expected more, especially considering the price of the tools.
Desert Nissan, Las Vegas, NV - Took in my 02 XTerra because the lower arm of the steering box was damp with fluid (before the warranty expires in September). Told them specifically what was wrong. Completely ignored my instructions and "could not find any leaks". When the tech finally came back from lunch, he said he never even checked the steering box. When I smeared my finger across the wet dirt, he said "Well, when they gets old, they weep a little like dat."
"So," I replied, "the steering box is supposed to leak fluid???"
Needless to say, getting them to agree to replace it took another thirty minutes. Grrrr.
Hope that helps, Christian!
Dave Ronyak
Member
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- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 2,234
I'm a late comer to this topic. Too many other posts usually get my available time and I don't get this far into reading the many posts.
Although I have yet to send a tool in for warranty purposes, I have had several conversations with Festool's California based service advisers, all very helpful and which fully resolved the issues. One concerned the varying speed of my my Deltex, another my desire for an edge guard to fit my early model RO 125. I have yete to present the issue of the snap in PC adapter of my 1400 FEQ not being centered on the router shaft.
RE Bill E's comment - posting a strong warranty and honoring it when needed are strong indicators of a company comprised of quality products and people - companies I want to do business with. A product that has quality in its design and in its manufacture needs less warranty service than one that is poorly designed or poorly manufactured because it either will not work right at all or it will fail prematurely.
Quality and precision in manufacture are important to me and they, too, need to be warranted by Festool to keep and enhance its brand; I'm too old to waste time compensating for slop in my tools as I did for years cutting on a Shopsmith. I can get accuracy with my Shopsmith, but it takes a lot more work and care than with Festool's TS-55 and a guide guide rail.
I suggest Festool consider a CPO program, modeled after those of luxury car makers. Festool could take used Festool products, and particularly those that are older but not yet obsolete, check them out and refurbish as necessary and resell them at reduced prices with a warranty. That would enable more people to get introduced to Festool products. It would enable those who bought a TS-55 and a year later decided they'd rather have a TS-75 to upgrade with less hassle than today, or for the user with a smaller budget to own both a TS-55 and TS-75. I have several business associates who at first questioned BMW's performance claims, and ridiculed me and other owners as being Yuppie snobs because I chose to drive a used BMW. Many of these same people were impressed when they rode in my old car [then a 1985 model with >200k miles with nearly everything original excepting brakes and tires] later bought their first BMW under BMW's CPO program, and became repeat customers who bought both new and CPO cars. [I'm still driving my 1993 model - my fourth BMW and first purchased new, but will definitely consider another when the time comes.]
I hope Festool remains a family owned and controlled company; quality and service IMO are likely to degrade if they become a typical publicly held corporation. I think Michelin, BMW, Harley-Davidson, and Festool are in large part successful because they are controlled by a limited number of individuals who understand the connection between design, name, reputation, quality [which includes a warranty that apples when needed], and service of their products, a few bean counters cannot deflect them from their core values as often happens after a good company with good products goes public or changes ownership.
I think Festool ought to provide better manuals with their tools. They obviously go through a lot of prototype testing before release of a new tool or accessory. Why not photograph/video record how it is used, and at least post those links at FestoolUSA? If I had not stumbled onto FOG site, I would still be struggling much more with how to use some of my tools, and I would never have known why my TS 55 left saw marks because it was delivered with "toe-out" instead of "toe-in". Rick's manual and a call to Festool's service solved that one. Festool at least ought to include with each power tool and major accessory [e.g. hole drilling jig] a data sheet stating where the manuals such as those by Rick C. and others can be found.
I would like to see Festool offer "Festool U" at their Indiana location. I am willing to pay for some hands-on instruction in the use of various Festool products. My bet is that Festool would sell additional products to participants once they see and understand how they can be used and the associated benefits.
'nough said for now.
Dave R.
Although I have yet to send a tool in for warranty purposes, I have had several conversations with Festool's California based service advisers, all very helpful and which fully resolved the issues. One concerned the varying speed of my my Deltex, another my desire for an edge guard to fit my early model RO 125. I have yete to present the issue of the snap in PC adapter of my 1400 FEQ not being centered on the router shaft.
RE Bill E's comment - posting a strong warranty and honoring it when needed are strong indicators of a company comprised of quality products and people - companies I want to do business with. A product that has quality in its design and in its manufacture needs less warranty service than one that is poorly designed or poorly manufactured because it either will not work right at all or it will fail prematurely.
Quality and precision in manufacture are important to me and they, too, need to be warranted by Festool to keep and enhance its brand; I'm too old to waste time compensating for slop in my tools as I did for years cutting on a Shopsmith. I can get accuracy with my Shopsmith, but it takes a lot more work and care than with Festool's TS-55 and a guide guide rail.
I suggest Festool consider a CPO program, modeled after those of luxury car makers. Festool could take used Festool products, and particularly those that are older but not yet obsolete, check them out and refurbish as necessary and resell them at reduced prices with a warranty. That would enable more people to get introduced to Festool products. It would enable those who bought a TS-55 and a year later decided they'd rather have a TS-75 to upgrade with less hassle than today, or for the user with a smaller budget to own both a TS-55 and TS-75. I have several business associates who at first questioned BMW's performance claims, and ridiculed me and other owners as being Yuppie snobs because I chose to drive a used BMW. Many of these same people were impressed when they rode in my old car [then a 1985 model with >200k miles with nearly everything original excepting brakes and tires] later bought their first BMW under BMW's CPO program, and became repeat customers who bought both new and CPO cars. [I'm still driving my 1993 model - my fourth BMW and first purchased new, but will definitely consider another when the time comes.]
I hope Festool remains a family owned and controlled company; quality and service IMO are likely to degrade if they become a typical publicly held corporation. I think Michelin, BMW, Harley-Davidson, and Festool are in large part successful because they are controlled by a limited number of individuals who understand the connection between design, name, reputation, quality [which includes a warranty that apples when needed], and service of their products, a few bean counters cannot deflect them from their core values as often happens after a good company with good products goes public or changes ownership.
I think Festool ought to provide better manuals with their tools. They obviously go through a lot of prototype testing before release of a new tool or accessory. Why not photograph/video record how it is used, and at least post those links at FestoolUSA? If I had not stumbled onto FOG site, I would still be struggling much more with how to use some of my tools, and I would never have known why my TS 55 left saw marks because it was delivered with "toe-out" instead of "toe-in". Rick's manual and a call to Festool's service solved that one. Festool at least ought to include with each power tool and major accessory [e.g. hole drilling jig] a data sheet stating where the manuals such as those by Rick C. and others can be found.
I would like to see Festool offer "Festool U" at their Indiana location. I am willing to pay for some hands-on instruction in the use of various Festool products. My bet is that Festool would sell additional products to participants once they see and understand how they can be used and the associated benefits.
'nough said for now.
Dave R.
Bob Childress said:
Ridgid has done just that, offering lifetime warranty on tools to the original owner, including battery replacement for my 24 volt Li-ion batteries. They're able to do this through the Orange Borg, and admittedly, it's a losing proposition, except that it will allow them to grab a huge market share away from Black/Yellow, Blue, and Green. I'll probably never return anything, barring unforeseen catastrophic failure, so mission accomplished in that respect.
I've had phenomenal customer service from USAA Federal Savings Bank. Their rates were consistently lower than anyone's, response was quick across many different modes of communication. Admittedly, I've had limited experience with banks. But when I lived in US, they handled credit cards, loans, insurance, and banking, for us, and it could all be easily accessed over phone or internet. Having said that, their customer service plummeted when I moved out of the country.
Dave Ronyak
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 2,234
Eli said:
Try HSBC. I hear they are consistently rated very well in all the markets and countries they serve throughout the world.
Apple is not the company that you think they are!
When the Ipod first came out, their battery only held a charge for up to 8 hrs and they developed a memory.
After about 200 charges it would need to be replaced at the factory.
It took a class action lawsuit to force Apple to offer a battery replacement.
Calphalon, while they offer a lifetime replacment, their regular pans burn and stick no matter how much oil you use.
All-Clad makes better cookware with a lifetime warrantee.
Le Creuset has a lifetime replacement.
Williams Sonoma offers a lifetime replacement on all of the products sold in ther stores.
Craftsman hand tools through Sears replaces any defectve tool.
Snap-on , Mac Tools, Matco also have this Lifetime replacement.
Lands End will take back any product that you are not 100% satisfied with, the same goes for LL Bean
When the Ipod first came out, their battery only held a charge for up to 8 hrs and they developed a memory.
After about 200 charges it would need to be replaced at the factory.
It took a class action lawsuit to force Apple to offer a battery replacement.
Calphalon, while they offer a lifetime replacment, their regular pans burn and stick no matter how much oil you use.
All-Clad makes better cookware with a lifetime warrantee.
Le Creuset has a lifetime replacement.
Williams Sonoma offers a lifetime replacement on all of the products sold in ther stores.
Craftsman hand tools through Sears replaces any defectve tool.
Snap-on , Mac Tools, Matco also have this Lifetime replacement.
Lands End will take back any product that you are not 100% satisfied with, the same goes for LL Bean
Jerry Work
Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2007
- Messages
- 307
Hi Mirko,
I am going to respond to this post, but please don't think I am dissing you as I very much enjoy your posts. It is just the subject of your post that I have to respond to. Tonight my wife and I returned from a 1500 mile trip from our place to Spokane, WA. As we came near Madras, OR, on CC at the legal speed limit a local wanting to cross US-97 pulled right out in front of us. He said he could not see us.....don't know why as it was full sun, etc. Anyway I was able to execut a near 90 degree right turn to avoid a T-bone and hit him obliquely instead of a direct impact. Totalled both vehicles. Had we not been able to swerve that little bit and stand on the anti-lock brakes he would likely have been killed and the two of us would likely have suffered significantly. As it was, my wife broke a foot and he and I walked away. The cars did what they should have, crumpled and saved lives. Without seat belts, modern cars, crumple zones, anti-lock brakes, etc., I might well have been writing my last post. As it is he survived, neither car did, Sharon is hobbling around with a boot cast and seat belt bruses, but alive and well. I, too, like cars from a simpler time, but realllllllllly appreciate what the designers have been able to do in recent years. So, my admonition is buy new, use seat belts, slow down and smell the flowers. Enjoy!
Jerry
I am going to respond to this post, but please don't think I am dissing you as I very much enjoy your posts. It is just the subject of your post that I have to respond to. Tonight my wife and I returned from a 1500 mile trip from our place to Spokane, WA. As we came near Madras, OR, on CC at the legal speed limit a local wanting to cross US-97 pulled right out in front of us. He said he could not see us.....don't know why as it was full sun, etc. Anyway I was able to execut a near 90 degree right turn to avoid a T-bone and hit him obliquely instead of a direct impact. Totalled both vehicles. Had we not been able to swerve that little bit and stand on the anti-lock brakes he would likely have been killed and the two of us would likely have suffered significantly. As it was, my wife broke a foot and he and I walked away. The cars did what they should have, crumpled and saved lives. Without seat belts, modern cars, crumple zones, anti-lock brakes, etc., I might well have been writing my last post. As it is he survived, neither car did, Sharon is hobbling around with a boot cast and seat belt bruses, but alive and well. I, too, like cars from a simpler time, but realllllllllly appreciate what the designers have been able to do in recent years. So, my admonition is buy new, use seat belts, slow down and smell the flowers. Enjoy!
Jerry
Mirko said:Ned Young said:Michael Kellough said:.do you have airbags in your car Bill?
If he wants to drive anything newer than an '89, he doesn't have any choice.
Ned
Personally, I like to drive pre 1965 cars...that way I wont have to put up with the inconvenience of seat belts or air bags
Mirko
Jerry,
Glad to hear no one was seriously injured. I just bought a new car last week end as a result of a kid running a red light (looked to me like he was messing with his cell phone instead of watching the road, but he claims his brakes failed) right as I entered the intersection and I t-boned him. Totaled my car, but thanks to the crumple zones and seat belts did not even get a bruise. Thankfully, no one was hurt, but I sure do miss my old Mazda 626 though.
Fred
Glad to hear no one was seriously injured. I just bought a new car last week end as a result of a kid running a red light (looked to me like he was messing with his cell phone instead of watching the road, but he claims his brakes failed) right as I entered the intersection and I t-boned him. Totaled my car, but thanks to the crumple zones and seat belts did not even get a bruise. Thankfully, no one was hurt, but I sure do miss my old Mazda 626 though.
Fred
brandon.nickel
Member
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2007
- Messages
- 241
I agree that technology in current automobiles has made today the zenith of their progress. Let people talk about the "Golden Era" be ith the 50's or 60s. Never has there been a period when most major manufacturers offer a 500hp automobile in their lineup.
The downside to all of this is weight and cost. I'll never forget backing my '69 Chevelle into a Nissan Altima in front of my best friend's house in high school. I couldn't have been going more than 5mph. My steel bumper literally ripped the front end of that car off (hood, LF fender, bumper, etc). I had some paint on the bumper which was removed with my fingernail. That one cost me $2000 to replace his plastic bits. Ouch. In fact, most new cars can't take a 5 mph impact with >$1000 USD of damage. But my Chevelle doesn't get 30 mpg while cruising in silence with the a/c on at 85 mph.
I guess you can't have everything.
The downside to all of this is weight and cost. I'll never forget backing my '69 Chevelle into a Nissan Altima in front of my best friend's house in high school. I couldn't have been going more than 5mph. My steel bumper literally ripped the front end of that car off (hood, LF fender, bumper, etc). I had some paint on the bumper which was removed with my fingernail. That one cost me $2000 to replace his plastic bits. Ouch. In fact, most new cars can't take a 5 mph impact with >$1000 USD of damage. But my Chevelle doesn't get 30 mpg while cruising in silence with the a/c on at 85 mph.
I guess you can't have everything.
Premium Millwork Install
Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2007
- Messages
- 18
Hello All
Just wanted to share my experience with the service department. My RO 125 charred up its twist lock pretty good. I dropped it UPS to the INDY center from Northern VA. Left Friday afternoon. 22.95 to ship ground. I come home from work 1 week later box from Festool on the porch. I thought it was my order I placed. Nope it was MY RO.
I shipped only the sander no dust ring, no pad no cord. I was impressed I had a new cord, and new dust ring. The tool was almost as clean as new. Brief description of the work they done and a hand signed letter. No charge for this they paid the shipping back to me.
There are a lot of companies out there that could learn from this.
My wife has COach with has the same kind of policy. You pay through the nose for it. No questions ask they just fix it if it fails or breaks.
I have festool we are even LOL
Once again great job festool I will continue to purchase these tools as I can.
Anthony
Just wanted to share my experience with the service department. My RO 125 charred up its twist lock pretty good. I dropped it UPS to the INDY center from Northern VA. Left Friday afternoon. 22.95 to ship ground. I come home from work 1 week later box from Festool on the porch. I thought it was my order I placed. Nope it was MY RO.
I shipped only the sander no dust ring, no pad no cord. I was impressed I had a new cord, and new dust ring. The tool was almost as clean as new. Brief description of the work they done and a hand signed letter. No charge for this they paid the shipping back to me.
There are a lot of companies out there that could learn from this.
My wife has COach with has the same kind of policy. You pay through the nose for it. No questions ask they just fix it if it fails or breaks.
I have festool we are even LOL
Once again great job festool I will continue to purchase these tools as I can.
Anthony
Matthew Schenker
Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2007
- Messages
- 2,619
Anthony,
Good way to do FOG research! This topic was started way back in June 2007.
But that's good, since feedback on Warranties and Service is always helpful. And it's just one of the may ways that this forum can be of service to Festool.
Maybe this will be a good opportunity for other members to post about their warranty and service experiences.
Stay in touch,
Matthew
Good way to do FOG research! This topic was started way back in June 2007.
But that's good, since feedback on Warranties and Service is always helpful. And it's just one of the may ways that this forum can be of service to Festool.
Maybe this will be a good opportunity for other members to post about their warranty and service experiences.
Stay in touch,
Matthew
jmbfestool
Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2009
- Messages
- 6,646
Festool service is quick and good I was happy with the festool rep when I had a problem. Just in the UK the actually repair center isnt that good at actually repairing the tool.
Also the courier they use to deliver repaired tools with they must change because they seem to not look after the parcels in tranportation so you end up getting a smashed up festool box.
Also the courier they use to deliver repaired tools with they must change because they seem to not look after the parcels in tranportation so you end up getting a smashed up festool box.
i had one experience with festool service and it was awesome!
that being said, if the manual was as professional as the tools themselves i never would have busted the 1/2 inch collet on my OF2000 router. i did'nt know about the safety action on the festool routers. when you tighten the collet for the first time, it then goes loose, then you tighten for the second time. i did read the manual, but this safety feature was only in german section of the manual. getting hit in the chest with a router bit at full rpm is not a pleasant experience.
i agree 100% with minimal's post.
i disagree with workshopdemos, there are companies out there producing good quality manuals. leigh jigs for one.
we are buying such an expensive product, we should all demand better manuals, when a customer like workshopdemos says its ok, because nobody else is doing it, thats the wrong answer!
we need to stick together as customers, if 5000 forum members all demand that festool upgrade their manuals, surely they will at least acknowledge there is a quality control problem.
when i buy a new festool product these days, i read the manual first, then throw it in the bin.
then i go to brices website and other peoples websites and download the manuals as needed.
come on festool, we know you can do better than this.
regards, justin.
that being said, if the manual was as professional as the tools themselves i never would have busted the 1/2 inch collet on my OF2000 router. i did'nt know about the safety action on the festool routers. when you tighten the collet for the first time, it then goes loose, then you tighten for the second time. i did read the manual, but this safety feature was only in german section of the manual. getting hit in the chest with a router bit at full rpm is not a pleasant experience.
i agree 100% with minimal's post.
i disagree with workshopdemos, there are companies out there producing good quality manuals. leigh jigs for one.
we are buying such an expensive product, we should all demand better manuals, when a customer like workshopdemos says its ok, because nobody else is doing it, thats the wrong answer!
we need to stick together as customers, if 5000 forum members all demand that festool upgrade their manuals, surely they will at least acknowledge there is a quality control problem.
when i buy a new festool product these days, i read the manual first, then throw it in the bin.
then i go to brices website and other peoples websites and download the manuals as needed.
come on festool, we know you can do better than this.
regards, justin.
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