Hi there -
I am a proud owner of many Festools (and countless accessories) and appreciate their amazing ability in dust extraction when compared to competing mobile tools. Disclaimer, I am a Festool FAN (Maybe one could even class me as fanboy---I'm that enthusiastic about these great tools).
There may only be one competitor that even comes close in tool features/quality/performance but you would have to put additional cost and lack of customer service from that competitor aside to make a fair comparison of offerings where both companies produce the same specific type of tool. Festool makes high end mobile woodworking tools; there is no question of that; and that is not what this thread is about.
To qualify me as a person heavily invested in Festools looking to get the most out of them and also looking to ensure I am working in a safe environment when I use them in my garage shop I'm providing a list of tools and accessories I have from Festool (not definitive by any means) which I hope will provide insight into my setup to help others provide advice on how to create a safe environment (I am not listing these tools to gloat over my fancy smancy mobile woodworking tool collection):
OF2200, OF1010, Kapex, MFT-3 full, Kapex MFT table, all track sizes, LR32 system, T75, CT36AC, BoomArm with AS hose and wire on it, Workcenter attached to CT36 vac, Several hoses most of which are 36mm dia and one 2 foot whip with 27mm for connecting to tools with smaller port, 300Jig, 150/3, 150RO, Domino sets small and large, 3Sysports and just about every accessory to go with them. Great for field work, much safer than alternatives; and for a hobbyist with a few pro jobs here and there FUN TO USE (Because they are relatively simple to move/setup and spend less time cleaning up than with other mobile tools).
Being this heavily invested (and for those of you looking to get heavily invested), I feel I deserve to know definitively whether these tools will perform acceptably with regards to air quality as it relates to health in an enclosed area and are for that variable alone.
I'm talking about working indoors in an en-closed area.
I'm talking about comparing to a woodworking shop rigged with larger high end dust collection systems (such as those offered by Oneida and Clearvue) and their stationary woodworking tool counterparts (bandsaws, table saws, sanding belt machines, planers, jointers and the like---some functions of which might be duplicated using Festools some of which cannot). I'm showing good air quality when using stationary tools and a proper dust collector with the cyclone setup etc at the shops I've visited---though I'm not entirey sure there isn't something invisible going on in those shops, I've read that they can be setup to work safely and it has been proven with air quality readers etc etc. So stationary machine setups can work with safe clean air shops....can Festools do this alone?
Now my current main goal is to build my garage shop with SAFETY top priority and I'm just wondering if I need these all of the typical large stationary tools when I seem to get some of the woodworking tasks done just fine with my Festools and a few hand tools....work getting done in a timely manner is a priority and so are cost and space but my lung Health and the lung health of those around me are my TOP PRIORITY. This is why I'm one of Festools biggest fans---it seems to me that they offer a great combination with added benefit of being mobile. If it is true I can replace some of the larger stationary tools with Festools without negatively impacting the safety of my garage shop when compared to stationary large tools and heavy duty dust collectors...well, then I'll have a big smile on my face. If you provide some means of proof that this is true (a document of air quality in the area around the tools both during and after), photos of air quaility test readers, videos etc, 3rd party testing or anything else, well, then ...I'll do jumping jacks as I'll know for sure I don't have to buy ALL of the big stationary machines especially when some of the same woodworking functions I can get by with my Festools on.
I just don't want to put money/effort into testing tools and techniques...I want someone...the vendor or pro user, to do that for me and provide me with the stats. Hopefully not to much to ask---peace of mind knowing air quality is safe in shop when using Festool...and something to back that up that has science behind it.
Air quality comes into play at the top of the list on the Safety checklist for me (I can lose an eye, I can lose a finger, I can lose my hearing, all of which allow me to continue living...but if I lose my lungs, I am a goner---imagine that is the same case for you too!) and air quality for me seems to be the most troublesome to quantify not having equipment or definitive information.
I.e. where does it say in writing that if I use a Festool with their Festool vac, indoors, on their own I would have SAFE air quality? It was just an assumption on my part, and I don't care to assume now that I'm contemplating making most of my work indoors in my garage shop; I need to know for sure.
Have seen several posts on this site asking how to improve dust extraction on Festools such as the Festool tracksaws and Kapex but haven't yet seen anyone get out their Dylos and report on whether bringing these tools into the shop without any other dust collection or air cleaning is SAFE and reporting statics per tool.
Is it safe?
Are Festools safe to use in a shop? Are some safe and others not? That is the top level question...and then, if they aren't safe is there anything that I can do to make the air safe and continue using solely Festool in the shop?
I'm posting it here so that Festool representatives have the opportunity to respond as well as Festool users/owners.
Maybe there are modifications that need/can to be done and Festool doesn't have the answer but a user does---it may not be a Festool condoned modification but I'd still like to know because I can make that determination myself to some extent...and my biggest priority again is SAFE AIR.
TOP LEVEL QUESTIONS #1
At a top level, using ONLY Festool products out of the box without modifications, are we safe air quality wise to use Festools in a shop environment, out of the box and on their own?
I'm not talking about slipping over thicker dust and chips that might be on the floor but specifically looking at fine dust in the air both during shop-work and well after we've left (if the shop is like many of our garages being a shared space with laundry machines and the like)----when I leave, are my wife and children safe to come into the shop and use it outside of woodworking for long periods of time---without kicking up fine dust from my Festool woodworking and getting them unnecessarily exposed?).
I'm also not concerned with whether a competitor's tool is better than Festool or not in dust extraction...though you can chime in on that note, please don't HIJACK the thread talking about compatible tools from a competitor or how other tools don't have dust extraction at all. Drop a link and line describing and pipe down, we can judge from there about other competitors...or you can start your own thread even better; I'll see it
I just want to know if Festool dust extraction by itself is good enough to be used in a safe working/living co environment. I'm selfish that way being an owner of many Festools and don't want to get off topic.
Let's take a walk through some common Festools and see if any fair better than others from my limited observations with regards to visible dust collection:
Sanders
The sanding tools don't seem to put any VISIBLE dust in the air---at least not as much as those wanna be dust bag extractors on other sanders I've used in the past (Dewalt/Craftsman/Bosch...all put CLOUDS of dust in the air)---I'm hoping the fine dust also goes wherever that VISIBLE dust must be going and enough so that it is safe to use the sanders with my Festool system in the shop. Please confirm.
Tips: The sanders DO leave residue dust on the work-piece and they should be either wiped down if not for your health at least for the quality of your finish... with your preferred method (I don't use tackcloth as that can mess up some finishes), blown off outside (rather inconvenient on a rainy day), or vacuumed over further with a natural bristle dust brush on your collector at high setting...in addition to wiping down with a clean shop towel and tossing or cloth that doesn't leave behind fiber and shaking out outside I would imagine can't HURT the quality of the air...and downright might be necessary to keep healthy air in the shop.
Jigsaw
The JIGSAW leaves visible dust and small chips all over the place (It is the best dust collection Jigsaw out there and this is an inherent problem with Jigsaws; no fault on Festool here). I'm thinking there is some invisible dust getting out into the shop here as there is just so much VISIBLE dust getting out. I'm guessing some kind of modification setup has to be used to get safe air? and it will involve a high power stationary dust collector? Correct me if I'm wrong, I'll do a backflip if I can just use the Jig as is and all fine dust is captured and I'm wrong. My current feeling is this tool might be best used outside only...without any air quality reader gadgets to confirm that feeling or not.
Kapex
I have a Kapex, 5 foot 36mm hose (yes, I've already shortened the hose ---the only Festool I've made a mod on to better dust extraction according to advice/information posted on this website from users... changing my hose length appeared to be a perfectly safe modification) connected to a Festool 36 AC extractor and it get's MOST of the VISIBLE dust out of the box on through cuts. I'm guessing that by the blade speed and how fast the dust is shot out, that I'm not collecting enough fine dust to be safe in the shop. This tool being used in the shop most likely needs an appropriate hood and high power stationary collector hooked up as well to be safe in a shop environment; though I could be mistaken...correct me if I am wrong.
Creating a 0 clearance insert was another suggestion, which I haven't done and I expect that will help but not eliminate the dust getting out. I don't care if its just thick dust that falls to the floor, but if thin dust is getting out...without a separate air cleaning tool, enough so that with typical hobby use I will destroy my own lungs, then I just need to know.
T75 Track Saw
T75 on my 11 foot 36mm AS hose that came with CT36 AC (auto-clean) which is a black hose designed for the planex---its on boom arm and am using an MFT table. It gets MOST of the VISIBLE dust out of the box without mods on through cuts, but MODERATE amount of VISIBLE dust on thinner edge cuts. We cut edge cuts ALL day don't we? There are mods suggesting covering the hole (Festools official position I'm guessing is not to do that as any mod to the Festool machine frame could reduce the safety of the tool if it should for instance come loose and get caught in the blade...they can't possibly condone a 3rd party addon here I don't think), putting a piece of wood to accept the front of the saw at the end of the cut (where a lot of the dust seems to be going) and some are already suggesting putting a stationary dust collection system setup to create a hood around the work area to capture dust at end of cut (though this still doesn't fully address what might be shot out of the sides). I'm guessing fine dust is getting out with this visible dust and floats in the air. Most of the work is done here using this tool so that should be taken into consideration...a little dust a cut but a LOT of cuts could be making my shop air unsafe now and into the future without separate tools to help clean the air.
Routers
Visible dust gets out. I'm not sure if any fine dust is getting out in sufficient quantities. Again I'm guessing but I think that a separate dust collector hood for the work area is needed. An inherent problem with all plunge routers...again I think Festool is doing the best job so far but I don't want to put that point ahead of the fact that it is or is not safe to use...even if it is the best.
Domino
Barely any visible dust get's out of these things ever. I'm guessing nothing needs to be done to improve dust collection here...though I'm wondering if a 36mm port instead of the 27 should come on the Domino and if that would help eliminate all. A good downdraft table underneath the work area would fully set my mind at ease though...let me know if you think that is entirely NOT necessary.
There are recommendations on this forum to modify these tools. If I didn't capture them, please do fill me in.
To recap. I'm HAPPY with my Festools! I plan on using them a ton. I bought them under the premise that they have EXCELLENT dust extraction qualities and that is true as far as I can tell. I did not however consider whether they were performing extraction so that they were providing 100% SAFE air in an enclosed environment without using some other branded tools/setup to help.
I'm wondering if we can get some answers here on whether I can rely on using them as my main shop tools as a hobbyist in my shop as is, or if in fact I will need to do something with other brand tools to get my air quality up to par while using in shop;or and I hope this isn't the case....that it is known that these tools CANNOT be used in an enclosed environment safely even with some steadfast modifications that are safe and approved and documented by Festool.
Please let me know your thoughts-
Christopher
I am a proud owner of many Festools (and countless accessories) and appreciate their amazing ability in dust extraction when compared to competing mobile tools. Disclaimer, I am a Festool FAN (Maybe one could even class me as fanboy---I'm that enthusiastic about these great tools).
There may only be one competitor that even comes close in tool features/quality/performance but you would have to put additional cost and lack of customer service from that competitor aside to make a fair comparison of offerings where both companies produce the same specific type of tool. Festool makes high end mobile woodworking tools; there is no question of that; and that is not what this thread is about.
To qualify me as a person heavily invested in Festools looking to get the most out of them and also looking to ensure I am working in a safe environment when I use them in my garage shop I'm providing a list of tools and accessories I have from Festool (not definitive by any means) which I hope will provide insight into my setup to help others provide advice on how to create a safe environment (I am not listing these tools to gloat over my fancy smancy mobile woodworking tool collection):
OF2200, OF1010, Kapex, MFT-3 full, Kapex MFT table, all track sizes, LR32 system, T75, CT36AC, BoomArm with AS hose and wire on it, Workcenter attached to CT36 vac, Several hoses most of which are 36mm dia and one 2 foot whip with 27mm for connecting to tools with smaller port, 300Jig, 150/3, 150RO, Domino sets small and large, 3Sysports and just about every accessory to go with them. Great for field work, much safer than alternatives; and for a hobbyist with a few pro jobs here and there FUN TO USE (Because they are relatively simple to move/setup and spend less time cleaning up than with other mobile tools).
Being this heavily invested (and for those of you looking to get heavily invested), I feel I deserve to know definitively whether these tools will perform acceptably with regards to air quality as it relates to health in an enclosed area and are for that variable alone.
I'm talking about working indoors in an en-closed area.
I'm talking about comparing to a woodworking shop rigged with larger high end dust collection systems (such as those offered by Oneida and Clearvue) and their stationary woodworking tool counterparts (bandsaws, table saws, sanding belt machines, planers, jointers and the like---some functions of which might be duplicated using Festools some of which cannot). I'm showing good air quality when using stationary tools and a proper dust collector with the cyclone setup etc at the shops I've visited---though I'm not entirey sure there isn't something invisible going on in those shops, I've read that they can be setup to work safely and it has been proven with air quality readers etc etc. So stationary machine setups can work with safe clean air shops....can Festools do this alone?
Now my current main goal is to build my garage shop with SAFETY top priority and I'm just wondering if I need these all of the typical large stationary tools when I seem to get some of the woodworking tasks done just fine with my Festools and a few hand tools....work getting done in a timely manner is a priority and so are cost and space but my lung Health and the lung health of those around me are my TOP PRIORITY. This is why I'm one of Festools biggest fans---it seems to me that they offer a great combination with added benefit of being mobile. If it is true I can replace some of the larger stationary tools with Festools without negatively impacting the safety of my garage shop when compared to stationary large tools and heavy duty dust collectors...well, then I'll have a big smile on my face. If you provide some means of proof that this is true (a document of air quality in the area around the tools both during and after), photos of air quaility test readers, videos etc, 3rd party testing or anything else, well, then ...I'll do jumping jacks as I'll know for sure I don't have to buy ALL of the big stationary machines especially when some of the same woodworking functions I can get by with my Festools on.
I just don't want to put money/effort into testing tools and techniques...I want someone...the vendor or pro user, to do that for me and provide me with the stats. Hopefully not to much to ask---peace of mind knowing air quality is safe in shop when using Festool...and something to back that up that has science behind it.
Air quality comes into play at the top of the list on the Safety checklist for me (I can lose an eye, I can lose a finger, I can lose my hearing, all of which allow me to continue living...but if I lose my lungs, I am a goner---imagine that is the same case for you too!) and air quality for me seems to be the most troublesome to quantify not having equipment or definitive information.
I.e. where does it say in writing that if I use a Festool with their Festool vac, indoors, on their own I would have SAFE air quality? It was just an assumption on my part, and I don't care to assume now that I'm contemplating making most of my work indoors in my garage shop; I need to know for sure.
Have seen several posts on this site asking how to improve dust extraction on Festools such as the Festool tracksaws and Kapex but haven't yet seen anyone get out their Dylos and report on whether bringing these tools into the shop without any other dust collection or air cleaning is SAFE and reporting statics per tool.
Is it safe?
Are Festools safe to use in a shop? Are some safe and others not? That is the top level question...and then, if they aren't safe is there anything that I can do to make the air safe and continue using solely Festool in the shop?
I'm posting it here so that Festool representatives have the opportunity to respond as well as Festool users/owners.
Maybe there are modifications that need/can to be done and Festool doesn't have the answer but a user does---it may not be a Festool condoned modification but I'd still like to know because I can make that determination myself to some extent...and my biggest priority again is SAFE AIR.
TOP LEVEL QUESTIONS #1
At a top level, using ONLY Festool products out of the box without modifications, are we safe air quality wise to use Festools in a shop environment, out of the box and on their own?
I'm not talking about slipping over thicker dust and chips that might be on the floor but specifically looking at fine dust in the air both during shop-work and well after we've left (if the shop is like many of our garages being a shared space with laundry machines and the like)----when I leave, are my wife and children safe to come into the shop and use it outside of woodworking for long periods of time---without kicking up fine dust from my Festool woodworking and getting them unnecessarily exposed?).
I'm also not concerned with whether a competitor's tool is better than Festool or not in dust extraction...though you can chime in on that note, please don't HIJACK the thread talking about compatible tools from a competitor or how other tools don't have dust extraction at all. Drop a link and line describing and pipe down, we can judge from there about other competitors...or you can start your own thread even better; I'll see it
I just want to know if Festool dust extraction by itself is good enough to be used in a safe working/living co environment. I'm selfish that way being an owner of many Festools and don't want to get off topic.
Let's take a walk through some common Festools and see if any fair better than others from my limited observations with regards to visible dust collection:
Sanders
The sanding tools don't seem to put any VISIBLE dust in the air---at least not as much as those wanna be dust bag extractors on other sanders I've used in the past (Dewalt/Craftsman/Bosch...all put CLOUDS of dust in the air)---I'm hoping the fine dust also goes wherever that VISIBLE dust must be going and enough so that it is safe to use the sanders with my Festool system in the shop. Please confirm.
Tips: The sanders DO leave residue dust on the work-piece and they should be either wiped down if not for your health at least for the quality of your finish... with your preferred method (I don't use tackcloth as that can mess up some finishes), blown off outside (rather inconvenient on a rainy day), or vacuumed over further with a natural bristle dust brush on your collector at high setting...in addition to wiping down with a clean shop towel and tossing or cloth that doesn't leave behind fiber and shaking out outside I would imagine can't HURT the quality of the air...and downright might be necessary to keep healthy air in the shop.
Jigsaw
The JIGSAW leaves visible dust and small chips all over the place (It is the best dust collection Jigsaw out there and this is an inherent problem with Jigsaws; no fault on Festool here). I'm thinking there is some invisible dust getting out into the shop here as there is just so much VISIBLE dust getting out. I'm guessing some kind of modification setup has to be used to get safe air? and it will involve a high power stationary dust collector? Correct me if I'm wrong, I'll do a backflip if I can just use the Jig as is and all fine dust is captured and I'm wrong. My current feeling is this tool might be best used outside only...without any air quality reader gadgets to confirm that feeling or not.
Kapex
I have a Kapex, 5 foot 36mm hose (yes, I've already shortened the hose ---the only Festool I've made a mod on to better dust extraction according to advice/information posted on this website from users... changing my hose length appeared to be a perfectly safe modification) connected to a Festool 36 AC extractor and it get's MOST of the VISIBLE dust out of the box on through cuts. I'm guessing that by the blade speed and how fast the dust is shot out, that I'm not collecting enough fine dust to be safe in the shop. This tool being used in the shop most likely needs an appropriate hood and high power stationary collector hooked up as well to be safe in a shop environment; though I could be mistaken...correct me if I am wrong.
Creating a 0 clearance insert was another suggestion, which I haven't done and I expect that will help but not eliminate the dust getting out. I don't care if its just thick dust that falls to the floor, but if thin dust is getting out...without a separate air cleaning tool, enough so that with typical hobby use I will destroy my own lungs, then I just need to know.
T75 Track Saw
T75 on my 11 foot 36mm AS hose that came with CT36 AC (auto-clean) which is a black hose designed for the planex---its on boom arm and am using an MFT table. It gets MOST of the VISIBLE dust out of the box without mods on through cuts, but MODERATE amount of VISIBLE dust on thinner edge cuts. We cut edge cuts ALL day don't we? There are mods suggesting covering the hole (Festools official position I'm guessing is not to do that as any mod to the Festool machine frame could reduce the safety of the tool if it should for instance come loose and get caught in the blade...they can't possibly condone a 3rd party addon here I don't think), putting a piece of wood to accept the front of the saw at the end of the cut (where a lot of the dust seems to be going) and some are already suggesting putting a stationary dust collection system setup to create a hood around the work area to capture dust at end of cut (though this still doesn't fully address what might be shot out of the sides). I'm guessing fine dust is getting out with this visible dust and floats in the air. Most of the work is done here using this tool so that should be taken into consideration...a little dust a cut but a LOT of cuts could be making my shop air unsafe now and into the future without separate tools to help clean the air.
Routers
Visible dust gets out. I'm not sure if any fine dust is getting out in sufficient quantities. Again I'm guessing but I think that a separate dust collector hood for the work area is needed. An inherent problem with all plunge routers...again I think Festool is doing the best job so far but I don't want to put that point ahead of the fact that it is or is not safe to use...even if it is the best.
Domino
Barely any visible dust get's out of these things ever. I'm guessing nothing needs to be done to improve dust collection here...though I'm wondering if a 36mm port instead of the 27 should come on the Domino and if that would help eliminate all. A good downdraft table underneath the work area would fully set my mind at ease though...let me know if you think that is entirely NOT necessary.
There are recommendations on this forum to modify these tools. If I didn't capture them, please do fill me in.
To recap. I'm HAPPY with my Festools! I plan on using them a ton. I bought them under the premise that they have EXCELLENT dust extraction qualities and that is true as far as I can tell. I did not however consider whether they were performing extraction so that they were providing 100% SAFE air in an enclosed environment without using some other branded tools/setup to help.
I'm wondering if we can get some answers here on whether I can rely on using them as my main shop tools as a hobbyist in my shop as is, or if in fact I will need to do something with other brand tools to get my air quality up to par while using in shop;or and I hope this isn't the case....that it is known that these tools CANNOT be used in an enclosed environment safely even with some steadfast modifications that are safe and approved and documented by Festool.
Please let me know your thoughts-
Christopher
) as a lot of dust had accumulated inside the unit despite the filters (that I've thrown away)---who knows what the prior owner was cutting but it could very well have been very toxic wood or worse;---I did this before bringing into the garage and used facemask with P100 filters...yes...I am an air quality FREAK right now.
