Festool Table Saw

[sancho57]

reading this thread was interesting to me. All the different opinions were amazing and I agree with.

One thing to add though, Im trying to put on my festool company hat. 

For most projects the guide rail along with the paralell guides will accurately cut to a manageable size if not the actual finish size most pieces to a project.

For long wide pieces They have the MFT and the Kapex. 

So I guessing this mini saw was created to fill the gap thats in between all the other tools that festool has.

Now for the electronics portion, Germans love all that fancy new cutting edge technology which this saw has.

So IMO this was designed to fill the gap that their other tools left. Small thin, narrow, short trim pieces cut onsite.

Personally for a table saw, I use the CMS with the TS 75 it has the side extension table and the CS50 fence w the sliding table which I use for cross cutting and with the router table.
, and the jig saw insert

But since ive got the newer TSO paralell guides (all 3 rail lengths 20",30" and 50")  with their rail attachments and new stops, along with their MFT up grade kit, I very seldom use the CMS any more.

No Im not going to sell it so no PMs.

But thats my opinion on why they build such a small saw.

Looking at it that way makes perfect sense to me as  festool is a system and this fits the system. perfectly with making any of their current tool obsolete

Now Ill take the hat off and Im Jobsworth the retired woodworker who works in his shop....

 

[FestitaMakool]

Interesting views here.
As Jobsworth says, all valid points. As a CS50 owner, the former smallest Festool tale saw, corded.. I can see that it fills in between a Kapex and a TS plunge saw, in a Festool perspective.

And: (This is only my thoughts) Given the development of small routers, small router tables for small routers lately - and count in the very good and fairly successful CMS router table, now discontinued - I will not be surprised to see a portable, aka CSC table saw, router table with battery operation very soon… Festool are good at routers, so I see this as inevitable new product from Festool.

 

[Bencan]

reading this thread was interesting to me. All the different opinions were amazing and I agree with.

One thing to add though, Im trying to put on my festool company hat. 

For most projects the guide rail along with the paralell guides will accurately cut to a manageable size if not the actual finish size most pieces to a project.

For long wide pieces They have the MFT and the Kapex. 

So I guessing this mini saw was created to fill the gap thats in between all the other tools that festool has.

Now for the electronics portion, Germans love all that fancy new cutting edge technology which this saw has.

So IMO this was designed to fill the gap that their other tools left. Small thin, narrow, short trim pieces cut onsite.

Personally for a table saw, I use the CMS with the TS 75 it has the side extension table and the CS50 fence w the sliding table which I use for cross cutting and with the router table.
, and the jig saw insert

But since ive got the newer TSO paralell guides (all 3 rail lengths 20",30" and 50")  with their rail attachments and new stops, along with their MFT up grade kit, I very seldom use the CMS any more.

No Im not going to sell it so no PMs.

But thats my opinion on why they build such a small saw.

Looking at it that way makes perfect sense to me as  festool is a system and this fits the system. perfectly with making any of their current tool obsolete

Now Ill take the hat off and Im Jobsworth the retired woodworker who works in his shop....

This is pretty on point.

As for battery tools I’d really feel differently if they diddnt perform well. In most cases my cordless tools outperform the corded ones and provide an added benefit of being cordless. This is not always essential but often if we are cutting outdoors running an extension cord is not always practical. Having minimal cords running around a jobsite keeps it safer and easier to keep clean.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TSO_Products]

FESTOOL demonstrates once more that they really do INNOVATE.
No product will be "right" for everyone and all needs.

The sales acceptance of this new saw validates FESTOOL's product decision and gives everyone another option. Not everyone has room for a table saw. There are some narrow stock operations where this compact table saw can be a big help.

Based on our own first hand experience with this new FESTOOL table saw we can encourage our customers to buy it when their projects call for sawing narrow stock parts.

Let's be thankful for  major suppliers who offer choices for recreational woodworkers!

Happy THANKSGIVING to all of you  [smile]

Hans and the TSO Team

 

[grbmds]

I saw a demo recently also. It is a great saw. It seems very well suited to on the job work (although I will say up front I only use my tools in my shop).

The only criticism I have is that the stops on the miter gauge have enough play that I think accuracy for furniture making might be questionable. This was a criticism that I also heard from others several times since I saw it. It seems that, for $2,000, inlcuding the portable cart/table, the miter gauge should lock in without the play it has.

My use in the shop would be for smaller parts that require a high degree of accuracy and I'm not sure, given the miter  gauge, that it would be a good choice for my work. It's kind of fortunate because otherwise I would seriously consider it even though I already have a table saw.

 

[morrisericd]

I've had the CSC 50 for about a week now, but more importantly used it on my last cabinet install.  For what I do, this was a great purchase and fits well into my workflow.  Space is limited in my van.  When I go to do a kitchen install, it's packed in there.  I build out the kitchens in my shop before disassembling and then reassembling on site, so most of the work is done and I try and get in and get out as soon as possible.  What cannot be done ahead of time - fitting toe kicks, crown and sometimes site condition filler changes, are easily accomplished with the CSC 50.  Bonus - I no longer bring a chop saw, as the sliding table allows for perfect end cuts.  For me, it just works.  It doesn't need to be battery operated, but that's a nice touch with limited space as others have said on job sites.  It is expensive, but so are my kitchens  [wink].  Overall, one job in, I'm happy with my purchase.  I have to make a bunch of silverware and spice rack inserts next week (all 1/4" plywood and planed down 1/4" red birch.  I'm challenging myself to do all of the cutting (after jointing and planing) on the CSC 50.  I'll let you know how it comes out.

 

[jeh]

Not aimed at hobbyists, but at rich dentists and doctors with more money than sense. 

Leica produced an early SLR camera (after generations of range finder cameras) that was more expensive, less versatile, and produced images that were at best equal to Nikon’s images. 

It was widely dismissed as a “toy for rich dentists and doctors”.

I apologize for harping on the photography analogy.  But the parallels are very similar, and it makes my point fairly well in my opinion.

The level of hate for this tool is mind-blowing. It may not work for you but consider it does work for others.

Anyway rich dentists and doctors would buy a SawStop as their fingers are, generally speaking, not optional.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

$2,000

For this to be a viable proposition for me as a site tool, I'd realistically need the full kit along with two extra batteries. UK list price is equivalent to just under $3800. It's a beautiful thing for sure and I completely see the attraction, but I couldn't justify that level of expense - the return on investment would be too long.

Has anyone in NA seen Festool's new cordless SYMC70 Symmetric mitre saw aimed specifically at doing trim work? It cuts both the internal and external angles of a mitre at the same time - and up to 68 degrees.

Now that's clever ......  apart from the fact that it will only cut material up to 80mm high - just over 3 inches. Pretty much the smallest baseboard commonly used in the UK is 125mm high, with 150mm and 170mm being more common. Plus - they've made the base height the same as a darn Sys3 M337, meaning that you can only use a Systainer as a material rest if you have the new ones ......... It looks like a tool that's designed to do one job really well, but only on small sections which frustrates the heck out of me. What a shame that such a brilliant idea is so limited in its scope of application [unsure] If it cut 170mm instead of 80mm, I'd have ordered one in a heartbeat.

 

[grbmds]

There does seem to be a lot criticism and angst directed toward Festool whenever a new product comes out. I personally think the saw is great. After seeing it in person, I just think the miter gauge stops could have been more precise. Beyond that, I think it is a perfect small saw, certainly for onsite work and even for in-shop smaller work.

In general, I think a lot of Festool's development of new tools is directed at contractors who use them for on-the-job work. However, all the tools I have bought (and I have bought too many) work well in my shop exclusively. Some a ingenius, some are just useful and high quality. The dust collection is excellent. The quality of my tools is also excellent. All my warranty issues were resolved to my satisfaction (and there have been very few warranty issues given the number of tools I own). The one repair I required was done quickly and the result was to my satisfaction. Overall, it's a great company. There are very few, if any perfect tools. We all buy tools that suit our needs (and sometimes buy tools for other reasons). Then, of course, there are a couple of Festools which really just are used a lot and procduce great results - Dominos, VacSys, my CT48, my sanders, and my track saw (on an MFT).

I'm not defending Festool. I just think no one should buy a tool without evaluating their needs and the value of the tool in relation to what they use it for. There is nothing more valuable in the shop than a tool that, when needed, produces exactly the desired result. I have at least a couple of Festools that fall into that category; actually more than a couple.

 

[sancho57]

[member=19734]grbmds[/member]

"In general, I think a lot of Festool's development of new tools is directed at contractors who use them for on-the-job work."

Yer quite correct. In Europe these tools are jobsite tools for contractors. I see a lot of people in NA think because of the cost these tools should be babied. Well they are contractor tools, made for and used by contractors....

 

[Packard]

When I was shopping for my table saw back in 1999, the salesman was telling me that I wanted a cabinet saw.  The Contractors’ II saw (with 48” fence) was a “job-site” saw.

And it was a job-site saw.  I saw plenty of pickup trucks with Contractors’ II saws in the bed.  It took two men to set up, but it was pretty much the standard. 

I really thought that when DeWalt came out with their compact saw with a wheeled stand that the size of a contractors’ saw had been optimized. 

For most people, I suspect that the Festool table saw is a bridge too far.  I think it is going to prove to be a bit too small for optimum utility.  For a few it will be ideal.  For some, a little too small.  And for others, something that is interesting, and admirable for what they were able to accomplish in such a small package, but basically, not a really usable table saw. 

Three little bears:  Goldilocks will use the Festool; Mama Bear and Papa Bear will use something else.

 

[Lbob131]

The  TKS80 table  saw is  240v  so  not  really  a  site saw.
At least  not  here  in  the  UK.
I notice  it has a  2200w  motor. So plenty of  power.
My Metabo  TS  is  2000w  240v  and  not bad  for  power.  Though  the  overheat  will  cut in  if  any  decent load  goes  on  the  motor.
As  an  everyday  user  of  circular  saws  im not  a  fan of  saw stop  mechanisms.
I have  12  circular saws  of various  designs  and  types.

I  got my hands  on the CYC sys50  today and  it  is of  course a very nicely  engineered  product.
Im not  sure  why it is  cordless as  it seems  too  fine  for  a site.
I see  the type  of  use  for  this  little  saw  in  small  workshop  craft  products  production.
Like  fine    box  making  for  example.

I  work on  farm  sites  so  I  get  to use  240v  with no problems  and  no one  berating  me.
My power  tools  are  a  mixture  of  240v/ 110v  and  cordless.
I prefer  240v  as  you have  so much  more  power. I know  many  will argue  that  point  but  my experience  trumps  ohms  law  every  time.

 

[Michael Kellough]

“I prefer  240v  as  you have  so much  more  power.”

I can’t imagine anyone arguing against that…

 

[woodbutcherbower]

“I prefer  240v  as  you have  so much  more  power.”

I can’t imagine anyone arguing against that…

My 1960's 440-volt, 3-phase Wadkin BER2 spindle moulder - "Hold my beer .........."

 

[Lbob131]

I can’t imagine anyone arguing against that…

Not in  the realm  of  run of  the  mill  portable  power  tools  for  site  use least  ways  anyway.  :

 

[Birdhunter]

My SawStop Industrial model is massive, heavy, and vibration free. It’s definitely overkill for my needs, but I really using it.

I wonder what the vibration is like for this tiny very light saw.

 

[Lbob131]

My  Metabo  TS254  is  7kg  lighter  and I have  no  vibrations.
If  you  are  concerned  about  vibration,  sand bag  the  legs. [laughing]

 

[Bencan]

My SawStop Industrial model is massive, heavy, and vibration free. It’s definitely overkill for my needs, but I really using it.

I wonder what the vibration is like for this tiny very light saw.

No vibration at all on mine and very quiet. Honestly great user experience

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stickman]

I really want a portable, job site friendly table saw but the fact that it is 100% battery powered is stupid. I have power available 99% of the time. Just make it a corded saw that can run on batteries for chrissakes. Poorly thought out.

 

[Lbob131]

I really want a portable, job site friendly table saw but the fact that it is 100% battery powered is stupid. I have power available 99% of the time. Just make it a corded saw that can run on batteries for chrissakes. Poorly thought out.

Festool make  3  table  saws.
TKS 80 - 230v
Preciso CS 50 - 230v
CSC SYS 50 - 18v cordless.

Dewalt  have  a  corded  chop  saw  that  runs  on  batteries. And from what I have heard,  the  corded  adapter  transformer  is  burning  out  the  motor  and  users  are  being advised  to ditch  the adapter.
I  would  never  buy a  table  saw  that  runs  on batteries. Id  sooner  run a  generator.