finishing teak

[Chris Hughes]

While I'm picking the brain-trust here at the FOG, my customer has a very large boat and is in the process of refitting the interior.  The finish guy in charge is trying to obtain a glass like finish on teak.  Previously he was using the AWL system which is a two or three part system.  Brian Sedgely suggested West system which is a two part system.  The problem that my friend has been experiencing is that he still has pore structure transferring through causing a pitted surface.

So here is the question, is it an unreasonable expectation to think that teak can have a glass finish?  Is there a filler that can be used to assist in this solution?  What is the best system in for this application?

 

[mastercabman]

Chris i beleive teak has some kind of natural oil in it.I think you are supposed to use a cleaner to remove the oil on the surface and then go on with the finish.If you are using an epoxy,you could do a thin coat to seal it and then put on the heavy coat for the final.I could be wrong.Anyone to correct me?

 

[AlexThePalex]

I did my teak front door a couple of months ago. Now I didn't bother to give it a glass like finish because I didn't think it was necessary, but I did put a good 8 hours into sanding that thing down because of the highly profiled surface, so I got a good look at the structure of the wood.

It sure has a lot of pores all over the surface. And what pores do is, they suck in fluid and transport it down to deeper layers so that's how you get the dimples. Only thing to counter that is to saturate them until the suction stops, ie giving it as much layers as needed. Eventually the suction will stop.

 

[Michael_MA]

about two years ago, i was working on some nice old teak doors, which required re-finishing.
And as Alex mentioned, the sanding was a nightmare, due to the oliy surface, even though the doors were some 30 years old.
Didn't have the Rotex though, but used the RS100 sander, which is also gear-driven. Had 8 doors - took 3 days just for sanding !
Used Brilliant abrasive 80-120-150-220, cause it has better abrasive binding than Rubin.

Finally, i used this clear Zweihorn Plastiklack S7000 --> 2-component laquer as filler and cover, to cover the wood.
It is a special recipe, which drains into the wood fibers to reinforce and strengthen them.
It did a great job and required one layer as filler, and then while the first layer was semi-dry i applied the second layer as cover.
I used a SATA HVLP gun with an 1,8mm nozzle.
The result was very appealing - glossy - but not glass finish as i did not polish the final result.

kind regards, Mike

 

[Chris Hughes]

Thanks guys.  So, is it the galleries opinion that a glass finish can be achieved?  I like the idea of using a laquer filler.

 

[Jay Knoll]

When I owned a sailboat, this was the varnishing bible

http://www.amazon.com/Brightwork-Rebecca-Wittman/dp/0071486577/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297567395&sr=1-3

What she can do is amazing

 

[danjames]

I'm a boatbuilder, so I work with alot of teak on boats.
IMO if it is the interior I would say that the awl system is overkill, just use a good yacht varnish, we use epifanes and can get a really good glass finish, but saying that, you can also put a coat or two of awl bright on top of this if you want a more resistant finish, for filling the grain it just takes many coats, we usually do 12 - 15 coats of yacht varnish, this gives you good depth.
In my experience the awl products are thinner so you need more coats to fill the grain, but are much harder wearing and more uv resistant, but you can put on 2 or 3 coats in a day without sanding inbetween coats, the catch is they are also alot more expensive. it's all swings and roundabouts as to what is best.
Spraying can also be good but you need to tent up and mask all surfaces that are not going to be finished and have good extraction,and the fumes can stop other trades working on the boat, whereas with normal varnish this is not the case.
Hope that helps. [smile]
Danjames.

 

[PIRATE]

Hello All,
New to this site! (Thanks to Chris!)!Whats up dawg?
I happen to be the applicator doing all the high gloss finish on such boat project.

Ive been doing primarily topcoat painting on exterior of boats for over ten years and then the boss decided to redo interior and wanted "high gloss'. Its been a bit of a learning curve. Paying much more attention to sanding scratches left behind so as not to read thru finish and a host of other things outside of what you can get away with on the exterior. If it was to be a matte finish then we wouldnt be having this discussion.

Ive done both. The use of eppifanes clear with uv varnish , 15 plus coats to fill the grain before final sand and do last juicy coat, to what I actually prefer  cuz of temps, is the use of AWLGRIP products.

Heres the run down on the steps taken to get job done:

1 -Do a big wipe down (more like wash down) cuz I do it like 3 times is wipe down with acitone to remove oils from teak. Walls are veneer or okoume ply epoxied to old walls. Raised panel door and drawer fronts and full size doors are solid teak.

2- Thin first coat 1 to 1 or, 100% with spar varnish and  then 50% then strait varnish last coat

3- let cure up for good week or more before all the build coats of AWLBRITE

4-Apply 10 to 12 coats of the acrylic urethane(awlbrite)and let cure for another good week or two before knocking it down and see if grain filled 100%(which is done with a urethane foam roller pad, each coat is around 2 , 2.5 wet film thickness)

5 -If so , procede with a different acrylic product (still yet another awlgrip  product to keep all components compatible) is a final finish sprayed.the same as if you were say painting your car. Tack coat, medium wet coat then one last nice wet juicy coat!

All this besides all the masking, tenting , wiping down , tack ragging, etc. etc. etc. Dust  control is the hardest part of all this!!And yes, trying to work around all the other trades people.

FINALLY to  maybe make a more discriptive question here IS....After all this, finish looks steller! Yes , may have bit of blemish or dust to deal with , but it gets buffed out. (awlcraft 2000, buffs easier than the awbrite)

I am going for that 'piano finish' cuz I see it as yacht finish standards to go by . And I have to have it look as good as Chris's woodwork.

May be a bit long winded , I appologize and I'm sure I left a few things out.I'm hoping to find the missing link to the puzzle here  by maybe using the right sealer or epoxy resin to fill grain to eliminate the "grain shrink thing"

It won't let me attach pics because they are more than 2,000KB.  I will work on getting them posted soon.

Both, the use of varnish the whole way thru, and the use of awlbrite/ awlcraft and I'm getting the grain print thru that you can read with your eye.

I have since found that the finish that was sprayed last year and sanded out then sprayed with an addional 3 coats has shown signs that it makes it go away.

Hope all of this makes sense.

Jeff

 

[Chris Hughes]

Bout time Jeffy!  Welcome to the FOG.

 

[PIRATE]

Trying again to send a picture.

 

[PIRATE]

Here'a another

 

[festoolsnob]

Teak is my favourite wood to work with, and the high gloss, glass like finish is what I do most of the time.

If anything the high density of teak, means those little pores you are all talking about are tiny, and close up completely very easily.

I usually sand the wood down to about 320 grit. The Sherwin Williams Sherwood Post catalysed lacquer, thinned with about 30% thinners like they say on the instructions. Spray with SATA HVLP spray gun.

I really like the Sherwin Williams post cat, because if fills very well, and cures really fast, depending on the weather, and how much catalyst you add. So , spray the first two coats, wait an hour or so, then sand most of it back with 320, spray the next coat, maybe two and there will be very few pores remaining. At this point the wood is totally sealed, I normally wet sand it with 800 or 1200 paper, very lightly. You may or may not need to spray another coat. Then polish it with a good polish and buff. I normally use car polish, like Mothers. There are probably other polishes that are better.

Anyway, Post catalysed lacquer is available in various gloss grades. So if you are good with a spray gun, you can get that glass finish very easily on teak, certainly easier than on some other wood types.
The other thing I really like about this method, and why I have used this on many table tops, bar counters etc, this stuff withstands, hot pots, cold beers, water, tequila, coffee you name it, 100%.

The downside is of course the VOCs but who cares, they go away quite quickly.

 

[PIRATE]

Thanks for your insight on the subject Mr. Festool snob.

Its not my usual area with finishes. (the lacquers) I have played with it and find it pretty user friendy as far as spraying, but my understanding of it, it isnt very durable in way of scuffing ez and doesnt hold up well with UV

I think I will experiment with it though.  Right now I just happen to be spraying with the SATA 3000 BRP.

I have 1.2 and 1.4 nozzle set for gun.

Which needle are you using and what pressure do you spray at if I may ask?

Thanks for your feedback,

Jeff

 

[johnbro]

When I owned a sailboat, this was the varnishing bible

http://www.amazon.com/Brightwork-Rebecca-Wittman/dp/0071486577/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297567395&sr=1-3

What she can do is amazing

+1. Her protocols for finishing teak are right on. Speaking as a former boat owner who had a LOT of teak on his boat, I'm telling you you don't want to experiment on it. Normally interior teak gets a satin finish varnish; exterior teak gets a gloss varnish with extra UV protection additives. Wittman recommends soaking the raw teak in tung oil then wet sanding it into a slurry to seal the pores.

when varnishing, be sure to add a little flow additive to get it to brush out well. keep a wet edge and good luck!

 

[PIRATE]

  Thanks Johnbro, I actually have that book collecting dust in my basement somewhere. Pretty good book but its not gospel to live by. I am actually doing the same process that they use at certain yacht builders such as Palmer Johnson in Wisconsin .When I said "experiment " I meant on some scrap wood thats not in place.  [big grin] I'm aware that usually interiors are done in satin or matte, but the boss wanted the high gloss. Whatdahya do?