First Festools--is this a good choice?

[woodpicker]

Hi,

1400 is not on my purchase list (yet). Can you describe a little more why it is so good? Is it because its accessories? They work well together?

Thanks.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Big thanks to everyone who answered! Definitely changed my thinking on rail sizes and which sander. I'll see if I can demo the ETS on Saturday. Didn't know I could upgrade the rail length on a saw purchase. Great idea... I'll keep you posted on how this goes.

BTW I was crosscutting some 2x6 last night (rough carpentry for lambing pens for LOML) with the old Model 77 skilsaw and decided I was sick and tired of the @#$% binding and kicking out of the cut. Just a matter of time before I slice something delicate off. Guess the SCMS is in my future regardless. I know the Festool 55 would work but I also need to cut 4x PT lumber and other crap and don't like doing that with good tools/blades.

Cheers,

John

Before (and after) you get your Festool TS 55 saw, get yourself a Swanson (or other brand) speed square.  I'm left handed so using most circular saws with my right hand is awkward for me, and a speed square really helps me get a straight cut without binding and attendant kickback.  You can also make yourself the equivalent of a speed square from some scraps - a rectangle of plywood with one edge fastened to a straight stick.

Dave R.

 

[semenza]

Dave, I'm just curious, what length of rail did you actually get? 

It's the 95".  Since my primary use is cutting down sheet goods, it works perfectly.  If I needed something longer, even occasionally, I'd agree with you about longer rails.  But the 95 is easy to get on and off the sheets and is just long enough to complete the cut along a full sheet.

  Dave.

          You are using the 95" rail to make 96" cuts?

Seth

 

[Eli]

Hi,

1400 is not on my purchase list (yet). Can you describe a little more why it is so good? Is it because its accessories? They work well together?

Thanks.

It's one of the things I bought where at first I was, "yeah, it's pretty good, whatever, I'm sure it's a better router". But the more I use it, the more I love it. The shape of the long handle for example, looks awkward, but then when you have DC and power hooked up to it, the cable is managed and the router shows how easy it is to use one handed. The plunge depth settings are similar to other routers, but just better. Being able to use it with the rail and accessories is good for sure. We laid out a hinge template using the MFS and OF1400 yesterday and even though I knew what would happen, I was still surprised when the mortise was dead nuts the first try on scrap. I can't think of any other 'official' reasons why I like it better, but I definitely do. For a long time I felt like using a router was grabbing a bobcat by the tail, and with this one, I always feel like it'll do exactly what I want.

As far as comparisons to the 1010 and 2000 routers, I wanted snap-in copy rings without too much size. Seemed like the 1400 was the one for me. I think I'd agree with others not to put it under a table. Seems like you could do as much with less money for table apps.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I currently own  4 routers: 6.5A Craftsman (knock off of old DeWalt design with rack and pinon adjustment) with molded pistol grip handles with trigger switch in handle, 1/4" collet only; Stanley 11?A commercial quality router with screw ring adjustment, equipped with 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2" collets; Freud 13A VS with 1/4 and 1/2" collets and "above table" height adjustment and single wrench bit change; and Festool 1400 with 1/4, 8mm, 3/8 and 1/2" collets and full set of guides for use on and off Festool guide rails and some bushings and various dust collector nozzles.  Of these 4 machines, the Festool clearly and unquestionably the quietest, smoothest, and most precise.  The 1400 is so quiet that I sometimes forget to install ear plugs when cutting a few hinge mortices or inlays.  As others have noted, the handle provides additional advantages by keeping the cord out of the way and providing excellent control.  My only gripe is that because I am left handed, I inadvertently sometines lock the power switch in its "on" position.  I much appreciate the soft start feature on the newer routers, I don't have to brace myself for the kick that the Stanley provides when switched on.

Dave R.

 

[Dave Rudy]

  Dave.

          You are using the 95" rail to make 96" cuts?

Seth

Pretty good, hunh?  It's amazing what Festools can do!  Seriously, Seth, I edited my earlier message to be a little more specific.  Except for wanting to utilize the LR 32 and a long cutting rail at the same time, I probably would recommend, with Lou, a longer rail.  The 106 would be about right to give you comfortable overhang at both ends of an 8' sheet.  But the 95" really does work.  I cut 97" melamine with it today.  It's even long enough that the clamps will work at both ends if you like to use them.

Hope this explains it.

Dave

 

[Dave Rudy]

Hi,

1400 is not on my purchase list (yet). Can you describe a little more why it is so good?

Like Eli said,  the handle configuration is a large part of it.  It is just really easy to control and a joy to use.  Then there is dust collection -- unlike any other router that I am aware of.  Not perfect, but in a different world than the others.  Then there is the ratcheting collet -- the easiest and fastest way yet to install and remove bits.  Then there is the integration with the guide rail system and the LR 32, and all that means, from superfast and accurate shelf-hole drilling to high accuracy dadoes and grooves.  Then there is the superb plunge mechanism and ability to set plunge depth with great precision (I have similar precision on other routers as well).

The last thing I needed was another router.  Now I just don't ever use any of the others.  I'd suggest you either borrow one from the local store or give it a 30day test drive.  You'll soon appreciate what we're talking about.

HTH

Dave

 

[woodpicker]

This does help. 1400 is in my list now.  ;D

Amazing tools.

 

[brandon.nickel]

The OF routers in combination with the guide rail replace the dado set in a TS.  As an example, I cut all of the dados in the sides of my cabinets using the MFT, flip stops and the OF1400 on the MFT rail.  I only had to measure the first one.  After that it was merely run the router, set it on top of the CT33, flip up the rail, replace the work piece, repeat ad infinitum.  You'd need a table saw with a large capacity and expensive dado head to do that.  Also, by using multiple flip stops you can have multiple presets that are perfect every time set up on the MFT.  Try doing that with a TS and rip fence.  Ok, maybe if you've got an Incra rig, but the MFT is still going to be faster.

Also, if you add the LR32-SYS to the mix you have a setup that can drill Euro hinges in doors exactly right every time without even measuring.  You just set the vernier on the offset guides, attach to the guide rails and go.  Once you get some practice and see how everything works together you'll be amazed at how many of the accessories you can no longer live without.

I still use my DW708 12" SCMS for cutting stock to length and the TS for repetitive ripping of stock.  But I find myself mostly using the TS as a storage area because I'm constantly using the MFT for the actual work.

 

[Lou Miller]

The OF routers in combination with the guide rail replace the dado set in a TS.  As an example, I cut all of the dados in the sides of my cabinets using the MFT, flip stops and the OF1400 on the MFT rail.  I only had to measure the first one.  After that it was merely run the router, set it on top of the CT33, flip up the rail, replace the work piece, repeat ad infinitum.  You'd need a table saw with a large capacity and expensive dado head to do that.  Also, by using multiple flip stops you can have multiple presets that are perfect every time set up on the MFT.  Try doing that with a TS and rip fence.  Ok, maybe if you've got an Incra rig, but the MFT is still going to be faster.

I beg to differ. I don't mean to nitpick, if what you're doing works for you, then more power to you. However, your above statement is inaccurate. No router can cut dados as fast as a dado blade in a cabinet saw (this is probably irrelevant for most of our European friends here as dado blades are not allowed over there). I run dados on my General 350 (5HP) with a Forest Dado King all the time. I've also run more than my fair share of dados using the OF1400, guide rail and/or MFT. The difference in speed between the TS and using the OF1400 is night and day. The very nature of a router won't allow the same feed rate. Everyone is different and setup times could vary. For you, setup and the cutting operation might be faster for a few dados. However, try running 150 dados with both and see which is faster. Once you get past the setup (which for me is a piece of cake on the TS), there's no comparison in terms of speed. I'm not looking to put the 1400 or the MFT down, because both are great tools (I own them both too). Its just that the tablesaw gets a bad rap on this site.

If you're taking the time to setup multiple stops on the MFT, why can't the exact same thing be done on a TS? It can very easily be done and doesn't require an Incra fence. I've done it numerous different ways. The easiest way to get exact repeatability is to clamp stop blocks to the table board. For example, one way I've done it is to clamp one board the table and then use a series of shorter boards that butt against the board that is clamped. Then you just slide the fence over to your stop block. You get exactly the same repeatability you would with the MFT and flip stops. Due to the faster cutting nature of the TS, given enough cuts to make, this operation is ultimately faster on the TS. Maybe its faster for you and for the way you work to use the MFT and the OF1400, but no way is the TS slower for the rest of the world. Many will claim the TS is far more dangerous, but I personally don't think its an issue at all. That is just my own personal opinion though.

 

[brandon.nickel]

Lou,

Your points are well taken.  I'm certainly no table saw basher.  If you've got a quality saw, a good setup, and a lot of repetitive work to do, it's certainly faster to use a dado than trying to hog out material using a spinning router bit.  I'm saving up for a SawStop because despite my Festool collection, there are still things that I'd prefer to do using a TS.  Cutting out the 1 1/4" notch at the back of drawer for my Blum slides comes to mind as well as the afore-mentioned ripping.  Most people don't have the $ or space for a large cabinet saw, so my point in the last post was merely to point out that the MFT and OF1400 can produce equivalent results quickly (if not necessarily quickest) if you know how to do it.  Your suggestion on making stops is something that I hadn't thought of.  I was thinking of having to reset the fence for each operation.  Just trying to share information that may not be obvious to new users.  Thanks for pointing out the inconsistencies in my post so that I could clarify.

-Brandon

 

[johnbro]

Well, ok, I pulled the trigger! Changed my pick list a bit, wound up with:

TS 55
MFT 1080
Domino (!)
106" rail
CT22
Bunch of clamps
Delta ball cap as a door prize ;D (don't own any Delta stuff...)

Had to rent a van and go back to day to pick up the MFT and 106" rail--no way it would fit in my car. I'm having second and third thoughts about that honker--the box is huge! I have no idea where I will store it; I don't think my ceiling is tall enough to store it upright! I almost didn't bring it home, cause taking it back (if that's what I do) will require renting or borrowing another truck...

Been setting up the MFT last hour or so--right now I'm using it for a edge glue up--what a fabulous table! I'm ready to make one just like it for a TS outfeed table just so I can clamp stop boards and jigs and such. Geez, you gotta wonder why it took so long...

First cuts last night with TS55 (couldn't wait to try it) of some BORG shop plywood--the cut edges were indistinguishable from the factory edges. Truly amazing. Now I gotta learn the Domino --I looked at some of the resources linked on this site (thank you!) and that helped a lot. Well, practice makes perfect. I may use it to but joint some 2x6 pieces for lambing pens segments I''m making--not elegant but actually the joinery on them is a bit awkward anyway and this might be a great solution.

Thanks again to everyone. What a great set of tools!

John

 

[Lou Miller]

Sounds like you made some very good choices John. The TS55 and the Domino are both awesome tools. The TS55 is more obvious, but the Domino becomes a favorite very quickly. You'll end up using it in ways you never thought of. Look through some of Tezzer's posts to steal some ideas (I did ).

That 106" rail shouldn't be that hard to deal with if you don't leave the shop with it. Simply find a place up high to store it so it won't get in the way while not being used. Some kind of hooks from the ceiling or a bracket or two along the top of the wall will work well.

Did you just decide to skip the sander altogether? Being that you already have some decent sanders, you might want to look at the Deltex 93, or the LS130 or the RS 2 E. All of which are really nice, but very different from what you currently have. Problem is once you buy one of them, you'll go back for an ETS sander. I already have the Deltex (love it) and I'm kind of chomping at the bit to get the RS 2 E myself. However, I won't buy it until I have a job that will justify it. Hopefully sometime this winter.

Have fun with the new toys.

 

[Eli]

Delta ball cap as a door prize ;D (don't own any Delta stuff...)

That's b*llsh!t! Tell them you want a Festool Vest! ;D

 

[Corwin]

... Had to rent a van and go back to day to pick up the MFT and 106" rail--no way it would fit in my car...

John

Hmmm, next time you might just let them send you the stuff.  Shipping is included in all Festool orders of $150 or more.  And if you also slide down the slope you could/should save enough on gas over time to pay for another Festool    Of course, if you are renting a van each time -- well, you might just start thinking Kapex, or something.

Corwin

 

[johnbro]

ETS 150 here I come! Got a call while driving home in the van--an ad on CL paid off. Helped load an old TS into a guys Audi, got a pocket with dead presidents, and I'm rounding out my Festool mania manana! Now I just have to dig around on the forum to figure out Cristal vs Rubin vs Cheesesteaks vs whatever...who knew sandpaper could get complicated?

BTW when I was down at Woodcraft I picked up that OF1400--what a sweet router...got to get one of those, and the vac boom, and a cart...(wanders off mumbling to self).

John

 

[Bob Marino]

ETS 150 here I come! Got a call while driving home in the van--an ad on CL paid off. Helped load an old TS into a guys Audi, got a pocket with dead presidents, and I'm rounding out my Festool mania manana! Now I just have to dig around on the forum to figure out Cristal vs Rubin vs Cheesesteaks vs whatever...who knew sandpaper could get complicated?

BTW when I was down at Woodcraft I picked up that OF1400--what a sweet router...got to get one of those, and the vac boom, and a cart...(wanders off mumbling to self).

John

John,

Check out Jerry Work's manual on choosing a sander and Festool has a informative PDF explaining the different sandpapers. Both very helpful.

Bob