First time caller, Long time listener...needs advice!

[jkanter]

What's up everybody.  I'm finally a proud owner of some Festool products after lusting over everything in these forums for a while and I'm ready to buy all in! I got my CXS drill for Chanukah and, aside from the wife wondering why a drill cost $300 when the Dewalt was $80, I'm the happiest guy ever.

The reason for this post is two-fold.  First to say HELLO and I'm super excited to be here!  Secondly, in more exciting news, my wife is pregnant with our first child and she's ALLOWING [big grin] me to build some of the furniture for said child.  I had needed some suggestions on which tools to buy to best handle the work I'll be doing. The other caveat here is that we live in an apartment in Manhattan where space is limited.

To start I've gotten some base stuff for some simple storage needs and a SYS-MFT to clamp my Kreg Jig and other simple things too:
CXS, SYS-1 for storage, SYS-MFT (on a SYS-2), SYS-Storage T-Loc, 2 Quick-Clamps

Now, I'll be building some dressers, bookshelves and other little things for the baby's room.  More often than not, I'll be working on some simple .75" thick(after milling) standard 2x Pine from Home Depot certainly with the occasional plywood and such.  Here are my questions:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Which Dust Collector should I get...CT-SYS or CT-Mini?  I can get a good deal for $320 the CT-SYS with a long-life bag.  Space would certainly dictate this is best but I could probably get by with a Mini also. I'm able to cordon off the 2nd [small] room so dust collection could be GOOD...but obviously since we'll be working inside, more collection is better. Is the CT-SYS worth it for what I need?
[*]I'm going to be doing a lot of cross-cuts on pre-milled work. I already have access to a Dewalt Track Saw so no need for me to buy a TS-55(AS MUCH AS I WANT TOO [blink]).  That being said, it's a bear to work with for smaller cuts like that.  Is it worthwhile to just use this or would the HK-55 be a better option overall?  The Dewalt TS is not mine so will have to give it back eventually so not opposed to just buying my own.  Anything I do in the future will probably be simple furniture building like this stuff but always. I know it's a carpentry saw but seems like it has a lot of options to make it the single tool to have...thoughts? Would a CT-SYS work well with HK-55?
[*]Seems like an ETS-EC(125) is a much more realistic need here instead of a Rotex, right?  I can get a Rotex for $400 so just curious your all thoughts.
[*]Considering a Jigsaw...are the Trion's worth it over a much less expensive one?  At a certain point I need to understand costs here and if I could save a little, this is where I'd probably go.
[*]WHY DID I HAVE TO START LOVING FESTOOL?!?! 8)
[/list]

Anyway, thanks so much everybody and really excited to be here!!!

- Jared

P.S. I didn't give my wife enough credit earlier...her response when I told her my obsession with Festool was, "If it's the 'best'...then do what ya gotta do" [truelove]

 

[semenza]

Hi Jared,

  Welcome to the forum!  [smile]
   
      Wow, a lot to get into there.

              I will give the vac  selection a shot ...........

        If you want compact but full function go with a Mini or Midi. The CT-SYS is nice and handy but lacks capacity AND the feature of turning down the suction for sanders. Which is important. The fact that the Mini / Midis have wheels makes them nice too.

   

        Seth

 

[jkanter]

Hehe...sorry, just super excited about my new hobby/obsession ;D

Anyway, I'll def look into the Mini over the CT-SYS then...thanks!

 

[grobkuschelig]

Hi Jared,

Welcome!  [cool] (haha. this is my second post!  [tongue])
On the dust collection, I have a CT-Sys and am quite happy with it.
I got is mostly for storage reasons, because the flat I currently live in does not have a spare room/attic/basement for me to do my woodwork in. So I basically do it all in the living room, in front of the built in fireplace. (nice to get rid of the mishaps, too...

I think, if you only do small projects, it might work for you. I do not have experience with a bigger vac, though.
It covers my needs and lets me work mostly dust free. But it does not keep cuts from the TS55 dust free, which I would prefer to a HK, due to its ability to easily be used as a "dado-saw" on a table (with rail etc., takes some time, but works...)

Have fun with your projects and best wishes to you and your wife!

Uli

 

[Goz]

I'll take a shot at #3.  It sounds like you will be doing mostly finish sanding. You may want to consider whether the DTS or RTS would be a better fit for your needs.  The DTS and RTS would be easier to control on the face and legs of a dresser, for example. You could always supplement with an ETS (non-EC) if you need to cover larger areas, too.  The rotex has more power than you need and will be heavy and difficult to control for smaller pieces.  The EC is great, but pricey and doesn't sound like the best fit for all your sanding needs.

Oh, and welcome!

 

[antss]

If you want to run a track saw for anything more than a couple of cuts a day - then a Mini/Midi would be a much better option.  It's just more capable and versatile long term.

 

[DB10]

Head to a store and have a play with a Mini / Midi and compare these to a Sys Vac and have the sales guy run through the pros and cons, let them know that you are just starting out and which tools you hope to purchase in the future,  I think the decision will become quite apparent to you pretty soon.

 

[SS Teach]

Welcome to FOG. Personally I would get the Mini, more capacity, more control. The TS will produce a lot of dust. Of the sanders either will do the job. But being Festool use proprietary sandpaper. For the Kreg Jig make sure you have some Kreg specific clamps. Decide what your first project will be, draw it up with specs, make a cut list, and then decide which tools you will need. Start slowly, get just what you need for that project. Understand sanders have a way of multiplying. You are well under way with an understanding wife. The next thing is a good line of credit. Festool is a slippery slope. Congratulations to you and your wife. As an aside I used to live in Manhattan. Best of luck to both of you.

 

[mwildt]

MIDI is great. You could use it for general house cleaning too.

Ets125 or similar as the first sander is a good choice. I wouldn't go with the ec version instead get some clamps or other tools that you'll need more.

Jigsaws have their use but I find that I rarely use mine. Clamp small stuff and use a handsaw or the dewalt.

 

[nickao]

What's up everybody.  I'm finally a proud owner of some Festool products after lusting over everything in these forums for a while and I'm ready to buy all in! I got my CXS drill for Chanukah and, aside from the wife wondering why a drill cost $300 when the Dewalt was $80, I'm the happiest guy ever.

The reason for this post is two-fold.  First to say HELLO and I'm super excited to be here!  Secondly, in more exciting news, my wife is pregnant with our first child and she's ALLOWING [big grin] me to build some of the furniture for said child.  I had needed some suggestions on which tools to buy to best handle the work I'll be doing. The other caveat here is that we live in an apartment in Manhattan where space is limited.

To start I've gotten some base stuff for some simple storage needs and a SYS-MFT to clamp my Kreg Jig and other simple things too:

CXS, SYS-1 for storage, SYS-MFT (on a SYS-2), SYS-Storage T-Loc, 2 Quick-Clamps

Now, I'll be building some dressers, bookshelves and other little things for the baby's room.  More often than not, I'll be working on some simple .75" thick(after milling) standard 2x Pine from Home Depot certainly with the occasional plywood and such.  Here are my questions:

• Which Dust Collector should I get...CT-SYS or CT-Mini?  I can get a good deal for $320 the CT-SYS with a long-life bag.  Space would certainly dictate this is best but I could probably get by with a Mini also. I'm able to cordon off the 2nd [small] room so dust collection could be GOOD...but obviously since we'll be working inside, more collection is better. Is the CT-SYS worth it for what I need?

Absolutely not a little SYS simply is not the right collector for that. I can argue even the mini is marginal. If a person only gets one I always suggest at least a CT22. I work with every model every day. Between the two the Mini for sure.

• I'm going to be doing a lot of cross-cuts on pre-milled work. I already have access to a Dewalt Track Saw so no need for me to buy a TS-55(AS MUCH AS I WANT TOO [blink]).  That being said, it's a bear to work with for smaller cuts like that.  Is it worthwhile to just use this or would the HK-55 be a better option overall?  The Dewalt TS is not mine so will have to give it back eventually so not opposed to just buying my own.  Anything I do in the future will probably be simple furniture building like this stuff but always. I know it's a carpentry saw but seems like it has a lot of options to make it the single tool to have...thoughts? Would a CT-SYS work well with HK-55?

For crosscuts that are within the width cut of a miter saw(normally at least 6"to 8" min more if it is a slider) use a miter saw as the first choice ALWAYS, period.To me the HK just isn't for nice milled lumber . I would not use it for cabinets or trimming out a room unless I was forced to. I wouldn't buy an HK for your described application.

• Seems like an ETS-EC(125) is a much more realistic need here instead of a Rotex, right?  I can get a Rotex for $400 so just curious your all thoughts.

I would get an EC 150 myself, but the EC is a great choice. I have them all, Rotex, EC, ETS and many more, the EC is my favorite after the Rotex. The Rotex though being my personal favorite is overkill for your application and doesn't give as nice a final finish as an EC or ETS either.

• Considering a Jigsaw...are the Trion's worth it over a much less expensive one?  At a certain point I need to understand costs here and if I could save a little, this is where I'd probably go.

The Trions are nowhere near the saw nor value of either Bosch top models. The 160.00 Bosch JS470 is better, the 260.00 Bosch 572 even greater than that, both below a Trions cost.

• WHY DID I HAVE TO START LOVING FESTOOL?!?! 8)

Some of them are the best tool on the market in their category, it;s  easy to understand why you like them. Be careful though, some of their tools are dogs. For me Festool is Routers, Sanders and the collectors.

Anyway, thanks so much everybody and really excited to be here!!!

- Jared

P.S. I didn't give my wife enough credit earlier...her response when I told her my obsession with Festool was, "If it's the 'best'...then do what ya gotta do" [truelove]

 

[ScotF]

Definitely the Mini or Midi - that will work with all tools and give you a tad more capacity and suction control. I would opt for a TS55 or TSC55 over the HK saw - just because of the better cuts on sheet goods. I would get an incra ruler to strike solid lines to line the guide rail and you can get really accurate cuts. I made an entire end-table using nothing more than the SYS-MFT, a jigsaw, router, Rotex and drill.

For a jigsaw, the Trion is very good. But I would also look at the Bosch JS572 model - very good saw as well. I had a Trion, Carvex, Bosch and Mafell and I have sold my Trion and Carvex and prefer the Bosch and Mafell. I find equal or better cuts and less fuss.

I would get a Rotex and if smaller projects, consider the RO90 - very versatile sander and the delta head is worth it. If you want two sanders, get a Rotex and DTS 400. I like the 150mm size for the Rotex if going with two machines.

What about a router? That is a key tool in my opinion for so many joinery and finishing tasks and it can be pressed into service as a thickness and jointing machine if needed. Rail-guided routing is very accurate and opens up possibilities. So something to consider.

 

[jkanter]

Wow...thanks everyone!  Seems like I got a lot to think about.  I'm pretty upset since I just missed out on a nearly new CT-Mini for $325 which would have been a phenomenal deal.  OH WELL  [embarassed]

Here's where I stand with everything
Vac: Def going to go with the Mini or Midi. Probably end up with the Midi just cause it's only $45 more expensive but still deciding
Saw: I'll probably have to give back the DeWalt TS before I get started so I'm seeing a TS55 in my future (time to test how patient the wife actually is!)
Sander: RTS or the ETS-EC....probably leaning EC just to have flexibility later with larger applications.  The EC is only $25 more on ToolNut than the EQ plus it can take the 150 pad if necessary so it's versatile.
Router: I have my friends Bosch router that I'm able to use but the 1010 or 1400 will be next purchase when I save up some $$$
Jigsaw: Going to pass for time being but if I find a good deal, snag one.  Will eventually get one.

Overall, I'm pretty excited.  Really looking forward to getting started and into the Festool world.  Thanks for all the help...more suggestions always welcome!

 

[ear3]

I understand it can be frustrating when you first start purchasing Festool, because every suggestion you get involves spending more money and upping your investment in the system -- that said, I'm going to offer a suggestion that involves spending more money.

Your space constraints and tool needs would seem to be a good fit for an MFT.  You were looking at the HK as an option to replicate a lot of what a miter saw can do -- well, an MFT will give you that (plus more precision and repeatability) as well as the ability to perform many of the cuts that a table saw can.  You can set it up in the corner of a room and fold it up when not in use.

As far as the sanders go, let me just offer this observation.  The ETS-EC is a great choice, but in terms of size, I think sometimes people gravitate towards the 125 size simply because its not as expensive as the 150.  There are certainly situations where you might want the 5" pad rather than the 6" -- narrow pieces (less than 2"), or overhead sanding, for example.  But if you take the long view, and see yourself getting other Festool sanders, then I think there's a good case to make for getting the 150 right off the bat, and then adding complementary sanders to cover more territory.  The 150 is a much quicker sander, both because of its larger surface area (that extra inch gives you 40%more surface area) and more aggressive sanding stroke (especially the 150/5 model).  Now, maybe your project list is such that you don't really need the max capacity of the 150, and so the 125 is still the better fit.  I just wanted to put forward for your consideration that since no matter whether you go with the 125 or 150, you'll eventually need something to handle corners and edges, like the RTS, DTS, or RO90, you would cover a wider range of applications by starting with the 150.   

 

[semenza]

What Ed said ^ ........  and if going for the ETS125 be sure to get the EC model not the older regular. The older one is not a broad spectrum sander. Thought the two share most of a name they are very different sanders.

The MFT will also give a space saving versatile work bench. Which you are going to need for building furniture in addition to something to make small cuts without adding a miter saw.

Don't forget when budgeting that there are a bunch of other non-Festool items such as clamps, etc you are going to need.

Seth

 

[Holmz]

Going against the grain here...
FFS man, you are in an apartment! So you really need a minimal a nd quiet setup.

Can you get the wood 'milled to size' anywhere in your area?
Then you could use Japanese pull saw and more in the way of hand techniques. Also pine is pretty easy. One could hand plane or scrap gentle 1/4 rounds...

My recommendation is pick 1 project (crib, dresser, whatever)...
Then look at how to do it with power and solely by hand. (Which can be posted here)
Also see if Mr Reno, or some other source, can give insight into other sources for wood and getting the wood to close size and alleviating the need for too many tools.

 

[jkanter]

Haha...I totally hear ya.  This is something that I want to do for the fam and the new baby so will be doing most of the work myself.  It'll just be mostly cross cuts, ripping plywood, kreg pocket holes and some painting.  Thankfully, we have a 2nd bedroom where I can cordon off to be my work area and not have it affect the rest of the apartment.  Noise won't be too much of a concern as I won't be doing too much at night.

That being said, I'm going to go slow with my purchases.  I probably won't be starting work until at least March-April.  I'll probably pickup an MFT now.  I have some small projects I could use a new bench for so that's at least useful now and breaks up the cost.  Then I'll wait a couple months and get the tools when I start the bigger work.  MFT+TS55 will be able to make all the cuts I'll need it too.

Still deciding on exactly which sander but I'll figure that out later.  Thanks everyone!

 

[Amalix]

Edward made some excellent points regarding the sander, the ETS EC 150 gets my vote too. Personally I would take the /3 version as it will do fine for sheet goods and soft wood.

Regarding the router, I would give priority to tools filling gaps in your current line up, don't buy a tool until you have a specific need for it. Don't forget about proper clamps, if you are building bigger furniture you'll find more then just a couple helps a ton. Especially for pocket screw construction, those joints tend to walk away from you when fastening the screws if you haven't gotten it clamped down. Kreg does have some (slightly more expensive) handy clamps for it.

Coming back to the router, I find most of the festool value (apart from quality) comes from the system and accessories, while the OF1010 is a joy to use, you can get by with just a guide rail clamped down to your work / on the mft and riding the base of the Bosch against it.

Jigsaw, I use mine rarely in plywood, depends on whether or not you want to make curves in your work. Either way I would not go for the more expensive jigsaw, just take the Trion. You can always finesse the curve later with sanding or by making a profile in some MDF and using a bit with a follower bearing.

Finally, don't forget about hand tools. A card scraper, hand plane, flush trim saw, some chisels, etc are darn convenient sometimes. Holmz mentioned some other advantages to hand tools. Usually these things are cheaper then festool tools as well, even when you get some decent stuff (not the lee valley / lee nielsen, though those are awesome).

Thus; filling a gap in a tool line up is better then upgrading a tool you have access to / own already. And only buy powertools when a specific need arises. Exception is the MFT as it will be your starting point and is later combined with the TS55.

Good luck with your projects! Let us know how they turn out.

 

[jkanter]

So I wanted to follow up with everyone on a couple things here!  First off, I've made the MFT purchase along with an ETS-EC 125.  I know the 6" is probably better in the long run but I felt w/ the ability to put the 150 pad on the 125, it made the most sense financially for me right. [member=18445]tool nut[/member] is amazing and since I live so close, I get stuff 1 day shipping!

I also started/finished my first project which is super exciting.  My little 6yr old nephew wanted a big lego base so I gave him his first experience building stuff!  I used the MFT but decided not to cut into it yet since I only have my friends Dewalt TS(DON'T HATE ME FOR THE YELLOW! [eek]).  When I get my TS55 in the Spring I'll get that first cut into the table instead of cutting off the side.

Also, my nephew's FAVORITE color is GREEN so I got major points for all that Festool SWAG  [big grin]  Aside from a couple bowed boards from Home Depot, everything came out amazing. Here are some action shots with my nephews learning how to woodwork along w/ a non-sanded/painted final version of the lego base.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts...next up is the TS55 REQ in the Spring. 

P.S. The better news is that I'll be able to build my new child's furniture out in the suburbs so no longer have to worry about NYC Apartment space limiting everything....WHOO-HOOO!

 

[Holmz]

...
Thanks everyone for your thoughts...next up is the TS55 REQ in the Spring. 

P.S. The better news is that I'll be able to build my new child's furniture out in the suburbs so no longer have to worry about NYC Apartment space limiting everything....WHOO-HOOO!

that lego gives me hope.

I would suggest looking at the mt55 and p1cc - track and jig saws.
the mt55 fits on an MFT relatively easily, and the CT fit on them.