First Touch Dewalt Track Saw

[Neill]

Forrest,

I do not have my LS 130 with me so I cannot respond regarding the tool itself.  I can say without a doubt, as Bob has stated, that some if not all the profiles for the LS 130 are marked as being manufactured in the Czech Republic.

Neill

 

[tbellemare]

From looking at our stock, the LS 130, the abrasives, and most sanding pads (all tools) are made in the Czech Republic. The "make your own profile" kit for the LS 130 is made in Germany.

Tom

 

[Bob Marino]

It is confusing, but I am still going to say that the LS 120 is made in the Czech Reublic, as are their LS 120 systainers. Perhaps, some were made in Germany, but not many.

Thanks for the input Bob. That's the second time you've referred to the LS120. Did you mean the LS130?

Given...

a. The aforementioned Protool statement

b. The fact that Festool USA give the following FAQ in their Support Knowledgebase

    Q.  Where are Festool tools made?
    A.  Festool tools are manufactured to the highest standards in our state-of-the-art and award-winning production facility in Neidlingen, Germany.
          Neidlingen is in the south west of Germany, close to Stuttgart.

c.  That my own LS130 is clearly marked that it was made in Germany

d.  That no-one has yet shown me a photo of an LS130 where the tool is marked "Made in the Czech Republic"

...I think that I'll stick to my theory that the LS130 is made in Germany, until I see some convincing evidence to the contrary!

Forrest

Forrest,

  Ooops, you got me with the 120/130 error!
Some LS's were made in Germany, and were so designated on the motor housing. My LS 130  has no such designation  on the sander (the LS 130 systainer does say "Made in Czech Republic"). I emailed Christian O  about this last night and he said the LS 130's are made in the Czech Republic.

Bob

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Some LS's were made in Germany, and were so designated on the motor housing. My LS 130  has no such designation  on the sander (the LS 130 systainer does say "Made in Czech Republic"). I emailed Christian O  about this last night and he said the LS 130's are made in the Czech Republic.

Bob

Many thanks for taking the time to contact Christian over this. The LS130 question crops up here from time to time, and it's good to get an official statement on the subject.

It appears that my LS130 has therefore got a bit of an identity problem - its Systainer (along with my two Sortainers) say made in "Made in the Czech Republic", whilst the LS130 itself says made in Germany"!

From looking at our stock, the LS 130, the abrasives, and most sanding pads (all tools) are made in the Czech Republic. The "make your own profile" kit for the LS 130 is made in Germany.

Tom

Thanks for checking your stock. Can I ask how you could tell that your LS130s are made in the Czech Republic? Did the label on the Systainer say that, or was the label on the machine itself?

Thanks to both of you for your investigations.

Forrest

 

[tbellemare]

I looked on the label, right under the UPC. All of our other stock that I looked at says, "Made in Germany".

I also looked in the same place on the packaging for sanding pads and abrasives and found the same, "Made in the Czech Republic".

I don't consider it a bad thing for them to manufacture there. You can drive there pretty quickly from Stuttgart, I have. That fact gives me comfort that they can have fairly tight controls over the situation. When the Soviet Union broke up, there were a lot of well educated engineering types that were left without a job or big brother. Eastern Europe is full of talented and reasonably motivated people. They can be a real good source for knowledge-based outsourcing, especially where engineering/manufacturing skills are a plus.

Incidentally, I really dig our LS 130. It's pretty tough to accomplish the tasks it handles easily without it or a lot of patience.

Tom

 

[Bob Marino]

Some LS's were made in Germany, and were so designated on the motor housing. My LS 130  has no such designation  on the sander (the LS 130 systainer does say "Made in Czech Republic"). I emailed Christian O  about this last night and he said the LS 130's are made in the Czech Republic.

Bob

Many thanks for taking the time to contact Christian over this. The LS130 question crops up here from time to time, and it's good to get an official statement on the subject.

It appears that my LS130 has therefore got a bit of an identity problem - its Systainer (along with my two Sortainers) say made in "Made in the Czech Republic", whilst the LS130 itself says made in Germany"!

Welcome, Forrest.

  I called David McGibbon earlier just to do a double check and his 130 has a  "Made in Germany" sticker afixed. My LS 130 has no country of
origin designation on it, so it's easy to see how confusion could result.  I would bet it's just a question of when they started building them at the Czech factory.  It's their "sister" factory, so no worries regarding quality.

Bob

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

Nick, somehow it doesn't surprise me that you've come across products made in the US that were not well made. It would be more surprising to me to find issues with German made products. This is based on my experience and reading.

You might like to hear the horror stories that my dad and his partners had with their BMW 750IL cars if you think the Germans only make quality products...

Best,
Todd

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

The 750IL were actually women dressed up as big 4 door cars.  Those were the most tempramental cars ever made.

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

Big Women, yes always seemed to need that one week a month in the "garage" to make it through the other 3 weeks.  My dad's had over $20,000 in warranty work in the first 2 years and never got any better.  I think their big mistake was in trying to beat the Mercedes 600s to market...

Best,
Todd

 

[nickao]

Come on ask any German  they are like anywhere else good companies and bad.

 

[erikfsn]

Nick, somehow it doesn't surprise me that you've come across products made in the US that were not well made. It would be more surprising to me to find issues with German made products. This is based on my experience and reading.

You might like to hear the horror stories that my dad and his partners had with their BMW 750IL cars if you think the Germans only make quality products...

Best,
Todd

Todd, I really didn't say that Germans only make quality products, that's only what you said I said. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but all I was saying is that I would be more surprised to find a shoddy German part than a shoddy American part. Life is full of surprises.

 

[erikfsn]

ps, sorry if I sounded a little snippy. Someone I work with today annoyed me by not really listening to me and then your example of BMW . . . I had an '01 M3 which was more fun than all my Festools put together. My niece was in the back seat on the highway when I hit the gas and she screamed like she was on a roller coaster. Nice memories. Now I drive a Tacoma. Sigh.

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

No, I don't take or mean anything personally on these forums other than when I tell people their work or projects are good and well done.

I am sure that we can all agree that there are people and companies in any country that occasionally turn out products which are turds.

Hope you have a better evening and tomorrow....

Best,
Todd

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I think BMW's big mistake is trying to pack too much new electronic technology too quickly into their new "flagship" products.  On the other hand, they seem to do the basics well.  I've owned 4 BMWs two 3-series and two 5-series), bought 3 of them very well used and maybe even abused, and never had to make any repairs to any major driveline component, unless you call changing a center bearing on a driveshaft at 165k miles a major repair.  But the electronics systems with all those sensors and computers to monitor various systems and functions, e.g. oil level sensing and service indicator computer faulted in 2 of my cars.  And BMW won't fess up or acknowledge that some of their E36 3-series cars had faulty rear floor design/materials which resulted in the differential carrier mountings tearing out of the body work on some cars, including units that did not have any high horsepower modifications or track or other severe service history.  The Germans can make mistakes like anyone else.  They're human, too.

Dave R.

 

[Woodenfish]

Some Festool products I own have labels indicating manufacture in Czech Republic.  So does my Stihl leafblower.  Some excellent high end machine tools are manufactured there as well.

Dave R.

The more I read about the Czech Republic, the more I like.  ;D

 

[Ken Milhinch]

Can't say I am surprised to hear DeWalt is not made in USA. I have 7 DeWalt tools and 5 are marked "Made in Mexico" and the other 2 are marked  "Made in China".

 

[SPARKY FROM WINNIPEG]

I saw my first Dewalt Track Saw at the local Woodcraft store yesterday.  They have just received them and some accessories in the past couple of days.

Some thoughts after having a chance to handle it and see it up close....

It appears that it is made in the Chek Republic and not made in America as many Dewalt customers might assume according to the salesperson.
So, to me the Festool being made in Germany seems to have an advantage to me potentially in fit, finish and overall quality.

The straight line plunge is a big selling feature presented by Dewalt according to the Salesperson, but neither he nor I saw any significant advantage or dis advantage to that design vs the Festool plunge design.  It is just a different way to do the same function it seems.

Because of the way the blade cover is square shaped the saw appears larger than the TS55 and it appears that out of the box dust collection might be a little better.  But access to changing the blade may be a little more cumbersome. The blade variety does not appear to match the offerings of Festool at this time although the pricing is in the same ballpark.  The blade hole also appears to be about 5/8" or so and the blades will not interchange with the Festool blades at all.  Festool has a much larger hole in the blade.

The rail seems about as wide as the Festool with one raised track down the center.  You can cut on either edge of the fence without changing any saw settings.  This could be a slight advantage if the Dewalt blades are of different widths as the Festool ones are because you could use one edge for one with of blade and the other edge for another width of blade. You will have to have your own method to keep track of which edge is which though.

The question I had was about the joining of the tracks to make a longer track.  Since there is only one track ridge there is only one place to join the tracks and it is in the center of the track.  I don't know if this will be as sturdy and stable as the double joint offered by the Festool rails.  From my design and engineering background I think the advantage goes to Festool in this case.  The single track joiner is $20 so the cost of joining tracks is pretty much a wash.

The clamps from Dewalt are similar in cost but I am not sure the options to use them with the track are as good since there is only one groove in the Dewalt track.  Seems to me that the Festool tracks are more flexible in the options for clamping work. I only saw one size of track for the Dewalt so I am not sure what else they offer track size wise.  The T square and Angle guides for The Dewalt are about $30 and I think $40 so they cost less than the Festools.

From the way the saw was displayed I didn't get any feeling that it was part of a "system" as you do with the Festool display even though the saw clearly has a dust collection port and there were some accessories on a wall pegboard a couple steps away.  Perhaps the most interesting thing was the work table that the saw was displayed on.  I think it was about 18-20" by 50-60" and had a hardboard top.  It also had a plug attachment and 2 or 3 power outlets built into the center of the table edge.  Seemed like these might get cut into if you are not careful though with your blade depth settings.  Dewalt may have made this table but I cannot say that for sure.  I think the price was $150 which was not bad for what it was....but you are not going to be cutting 4x8 sheets of anything unless you have about 3 of these tables....

Interesting in that with the Dewalt priced at $499 and the other costs pretty much a wash with Festools pricing the salesperson seemed to think that the Festool was still the better buy and didn't seem to think they would sell more than a couple of the Dewalts.  I am also not sure how the Dewalt warranty compares to the Festool warranty.  personally, I'll stick with the Festool, but I have never been a big Dewalt fan...

Best,
Todd

The table you are describing sounds like the VIKA twofold that woodcraft and costco sell.

 

[cdub101]

I picked up the Dewalt Tracks Saw when MS was doing the 30% cashback rebate back in November. So for ~$500 I got that and and a Fein turbo vac. So For a little more than half the price I was able to get a Tracksaw and Vac combo.  I think the biggest impact these will be for those that don't intend to invest in the whole system. Also vendors will likely be able to offer discounts on these.

The Dewalt is very well made and cuts clean, srtaight, accurate, quiet and with minimal dust. Most of the accesories seem to be interchangable so you can pick an choose the best accesories or price for your needs. 

But I do agree that without some unique inovations or price seaperation it will be a difficult choice to get the Dewalt at the same price as the Festool. 

 

[robski]

i am the first to admit the first thing i look at before anything i buy is where its made. as soon as i see 'made in Germany' or 'USA' price is no longer an issue which is why all my tools are now festool, purdy etc. my ehl 65 has made in czech republic on it and from experience they have good quality control so it dont bother me much. i have been told on a few occations by festool agents the price increase from festool is due to the cost of steel and as the base materials is half the battle in producing a good tool so i am happy to keep with festool. my first tools were all dewalt and the only one i was happy with was my 18v xrp combi, the rest were absolute crap and no matter what they come up with next i wont ever waste my hard earned cash with them again.

 

[mwhafner]

Is that a Pro-ject turntable? 

I have a hard time discounting products just because of a country of origin tag.  Design specifications and tolerances, as well as process management are more important to me.