Getting a piano finish

[JCLP]

Me again. One of my other experiments is to get a piano finish without spraying. I know that I should learn how to spray, but I am determined to master the art of hand finishing. An art that is quickly disappearing. It will take a while but well worth it. I took a 2'x2' piece of mdf, applied 2 coats of BM Advance primer, sanding with 320 grit between each coat. Then applied 3 coats of BM Advance paint sanding with 320 between coats. I then sanded the final coat with 800 grit with my ets125 and got a beautiful gloss finish. Man do I love this sander. Makes me want to buy another one incase Festool discontinues it. The paint was applied with a brush and mini roller, both from Purdy. I'm going to buy higher grit paper to see how glossy I can get this.
Wanted to share,
JC

 

[Dan Clark]

JC,

Interesting post. Please post pics.

Thanks,

Dan.

 

[mike_aa]

Yes, please post pictures.  What type of paper did you use?

 

[Sparktrician]

Me again. One of my other experiments is to get a piano finish without spraying. I know that I should learn how to spray, but I am determined to master the art of hand finishing. An art that is quickly disappearing. It will take a while but well worth it. I took a 2'x2' piece of mdf, applied 2 coats of BM Advance primer, sanding with 320 grit between each coat. Then applied 3 coats of BM Advance paint sanding with 320 between coats. I then sanded the final coat with 800 grit with my ets125 and got a beautiful gloss finish. Man do I love this sander. Makes me want to buy another one incase Festool discontinues it. The paint was applied with a brush and mini roller, both from Purdy. I'm going to buy higher grit paper to see how glossy I can get this.
Wanted to share,
JC

You might want to try buffing it out with Platin to 4000 grit, then shifting to MPA 5000 with a hard felt pad and MPA 8000 with a soft felt pad, all using your ETS 125. 

 

[JCLP]

Me again. One of my other experiments is to get a piano finish without spraying. I know that I should learn how to spray, but I am determined to master the art of hand finishing. An art that is quickly disappearing. It will take a while but well worth it. I took a 2'x2' piece of mdf, applied 2 coats of BM Advance primer, sanding with 320 grit between each coat. Then applied 3 coats of BM Advance paint sanding with 320 between coats. I then sanded the final coat with 800 grit with my ets125 and got a beautiful gloss finish. Man do I love this sander. Makes me want to buy another one incase Festool discontinues it. The paint was applied with a brush and mini roller, both from Purdy. I'm going to buy higher grit paper to see how glossy I can get this.
Wanted to share,
JC

You might want to try buffing it out with Platin to 4000 grit, then shifting to MPA 5000 with a hard felt pad and MPA 8000 with a soft felt pad, all using your ETS 125.

Good suggestion, unfortunately the polishing compounds from Festool are not available here in Canada. I guess it's a CSA thing. I found a similar product from 3M that I'm going to try. Our local car paint shop has some 3M product in stock that he will give me to try. As for the hard and soft felt pads, is this something festool makes or is it a 3M product. Would you have a photo or product number for these pads?
Thanks,
JC

 

[tiralie]

JC:
I watched this video just before you posted.

http://vimeo.com/81006857

Although the guys in the video spray their coatings on they do show them using steel wool to achieve a satin finish.
Tim

 

[tbellemare]

As for the hard and soft felt pads, is this something festool makes or is it a 3M product. Would you have a photo or product number for these pads?

Festool makes them and sells them as 5-packs - 493077 & 493078.

Tom

 

[JCLP]

As for the hard and soft felt pads, is this something festool makes or is it a 3M product. Would you have a photo or product number for these pads?

Festool makes them and sells them as 5-packs - 493077 & 493078.

Tom

Thanks Tom. I'm going shopping.
Cheers.

 

[junk731]

JC:
I watched this video just before you posted.

http://vimeo.com/81006857

Although the guys in the video spray their coatings on they do show them using steel wool to achieve a satin finish.
Tim

Tim thats an interesting restoration video. I don't think they would BM house paint anywhere near their pianos. I know that steel wool and waterbased finishes don't mix to well. Don't ask me how I know this.

For the OP how long did you let the finish cure before trying to polish it?

John

 

[tiralie]

I know that steel wool and waterbased finishes don't mix to well.

...you mean between coats? You should use synthetic steel wool or 3M pads but they don't give as even a scratch pattern.
Tim

 

[Cheese]

JC

I'm assuming you used the high gloss version of Advance, is that correct?

 

[junk731]

I know that steel wool and waterbased finishes don't mix to well.

...you mean between coats? You should use synthetic steel wool or 3M pads but they don't give as even a scratch pattern.
Tim

Yes Tim, when I started with WB finishes about 10 years ago I had some interesting results using steel wool between coats. I don't like synthetic steel wool or 3m pads. Now I hand sand with 320P or 500P between coats. If I'm going to polish I wait for the finish to cure, about 7 days then go up through the grits to 800P. then I start using Mirka Abralon pads starting at 1000p. When I want to go above satin I use 4000P then a heavily worn 4000p, after that its Menzerna polishes. I found this works for me but again many ways to achieve the same goal.

John

 

[tiralie]

Now I hand sand with 320P or 500P between coats.

Yes I hand sand as well between coats, I can feel the imperfections better. I use foamed back Mirka 400P or 3M pads.
I have a heavy hand so I don't mind the 3M pads particularly if I'm in a hurry...I don't get as much powder as I do with 400P. How come you don't like them?

If I'm going to polish I wait for the finish to cure, about 7 days then go up through the grits to 800P. then I start using Mirka Abralon pads starting at 1000p. When I want to go above satin I use 4000P then a heavily worn 4000p, after that its Menzerna polishes. I found this works for me but again many ways to achieve the same goal.

John:
Thanks. Other than a french polish, I have not polished a finish per se. I will keep your advice in mind when I do.
Tim

 

[junk731]

Tim I use the Festool foam back sandpaper, at the time I got it, the roll it is the cheapest option believe it or not. I thought you were refering to some of the other abrasives that 3M offers in a pad. Just thinking sideways on that one.

I'm still trying to figure out Tom's response of sanding veneer in aggressive mode. With the really thin veneer they are putting on panels personally I think aggressive mode might be asking for trouble.

There are some interesting sanding articles on the pros/cons of skipping grits and some woods seem more prone to swirl marks. I find if I get the sander in the sweet spot by setting the vacuum just right, this helps in a lot of cases.

John

 

[NEW2FES]

Coming from an auto paint background aren't you better off base coating and then using a clear to sand and polish? I think you are trying to get a finish from a product that might not support what you want in the end. Laquer can be polished to a glass like finish but it does dull over time. Sanding the paint itself might cause failure, yellowing, etc as it is most likely not designed to be sanded and polished. That said you can polish just about any surface but will it last?

You can but wet sand paper in 1000-3000 and up grit. Also sand with a sanding sponge or block as when you get into the finer finishes you will see your hand and finger make in the finish.

3M Hand Glaze is always a favorite especially when you have sanded to 1500 and above.

 

[tjbnwi]

I use the ETS 125 for between coats sanding most of the time. I do have the Granat rolls in all available grits for hand sanding. I use the back of the pads or the Festool wipes for between coats dusting.

Tom