Getting near time for a new Random Orbit Sander....

JimB1

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Jun 12, 2011
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My Porter Cable is on it's last legs seemingly and my Craftsman has a sanding pattern that isn't great for getting a find sanding done.

Thing is a month or so ago I stocked up on a bunch of the new Diablo 5" sanding disks in different grits (good, reasonably priced abrasives if anyone was looking, when using them with a CT on my PC, they don't load up like some inexpensive disks do) so I think I am looking for something in a 5" again.  The plus side is that the diablos have a universal hole pattern so they work with pretty much every hole pattern out there.  http://www.diablotools.com/sanding.html#SandingDiscs

Anyway, I'm basically looking for something to go from maybe 100 - 320 grit, doesn't have to be ultra aggressive but the sanding pattern has to be decent and lower vibration is a must. Speed adjustability would be nice and dust collection goes without saying. I'm thinking ETS 125 but might be persuaded to RO 125 but that's a huge jump in price and in physical size. I'm more used to the standard shape of the ETS. I suspect there's a bit of a learning curve to the RO because of the trigger and handle making it back heavy but I've never gotten to use one. I have thought about the RO 90dx as well but I'm not sure about the 3.5" pad size, I like the idea of having the delta pad though.

Any recommendations or opinions? Alternatives ?

I probably can't look at getting anything until after tax season (Here in NJ, you always have to pay. Should be the state motto :) ) so I have some time to think about it some...

Any ideas?
Thanks
Jim

 
From Festool you choices are obviously the ROTEX RO 125 and the ETS 125.

If you're targeting a finishing sander, the ETS 125 would be perfect with its fine 2mm orbit. It's light too, so you can go for hours ...

The ROTEX gives you more options with an aggressive mode, that's also good for polishing. More of a barrel unit in your hands to use.

I was personally considering the Mirka Ceros 125 - but the hassle of the DC transformer and the fiddliness of the vacuum connection are enough to put me off it.

Then you've got every other 5 inch sander on the planet.

(that's my view of the 5 inch sander market - admittedly a little biased from the good experiences I've had)

Kev
 
JimB1 said:
My Porter Cable is on it's last legs seemingly and my Craftsman has a sanding pattern that isn't great for getting a find sanding done.

If you want fine sanding the ETS 125 is a great choice. It is a nice sander for such things. It does have its limitations though, so if you're used to standard 5'' sanders and expect the ETS 125 to be the same you'll be disappointed because it is designed for fine sanding and doesn't have the power of 5'' sanders that are designed for general sanding tasks. Within it's specifications, the ETS125 is a great sander and I'm very happy to own it myself.

JimB1 said:
The plus side is that the diablos have a universal hole pattern so they work with pretty much every hole pattern out there.  http://www.diablotools.com/sanding.html#SandingDiscs

That pattern won't fit Festool sanders, so it's not as universal as you think. Of course you could still use the paper, but you'd have no dust collection. Not very desirable if you ask me. This is how Festool's hole pattern looks like:

[attachimg=1]
 
I'd definitely consider the Mirka. The downside is that it's expensive, and the hose connection is a bit of a bother but for someone who is looking for a one handed light-weight unit the separate transformer is great because it makes the sander itself light and yet pretty powerful.

The ETS 125 isn't a bad choice - while it is not powerful, you can add something like the Bosch 1250DEVS to your stable if you need it.

 
I love my ETS 125, but it is a finish sander and nothing more. My local dealer told me he rarely gets festools returned but the ETS 125 is his most returned Festool, because people buy it and then think it is underpowered.

It's not underpowered- it's just not meant for aggressive sanding.
 
Since you'll have to get new sandpaper for a Festool sander anyway, I'd encourage looking at the ETS 150/3. While it's still a fine finish sander, it can be aggressive enough with the right sandpaper on it. It also handles like a dream, and the larger pad size makes sanding go that much faster. I couldn't imagine being without mine.

- Mike
 
Alex said:
That pattern won't fit Festool sanders, so it's not as universal as you think. Of course you could still use the paper, but you'd have no dust collection.

Hmmm, I guess the old ES-125 Festool sander used to have a 8 hole standard pad available but the ETS only has the proprietary hole pad, that sort of screws up that idea a bit... :(

 
The ETS 125 and RO 125 are probably the worst Festool sanders of their respective category, and combining both only duplicates their lackings.
If you want a finish sander then the DTS400 is a better choice IMO, way more versatile and a tad more aggressive. What is a finish sander good for when it can't reach corners?
The RO 125 (which i returned) was tiring to use, hard to control and yet felt underpowered, THe RO 150 is better, if only slightly, in every way.
The ETS 125 (which i kept, but haven't used since i got a DTS400) is a strange little sander, nice and light, yet it has no guts, the surface needs to be sanded really well with an intermediate sander before considering using the 125. Needless to say i never find it worthwhile to take it out of it's box just to give a microscopic difference in surface quality, and i sand with a ETS 150/5 all the way.

The ETS 150 is the king of Festool random orbital sanders, best combination of power, weight and ergonomics. Personally i prefer the /5 model because it can do anything. It's the basics to start with.
 
Timtool said:
The ETS 125 and RO 125 are probably the worst Festool sanders of their respective category, and combining both only duplicates their lackings.
If you want a finish sander then the DTS400 is a better choice IMO, way more versatile and a tad more aggressive. What is a finish sander good for when it can't reach corners?
The RO 125 (which i returned) was tiring to use, hard to control and yet felt underpowered, THe RO 150 is better, if only slightly, in every way.
The ETS 125 (which i kept, but haven't used since i got a DTS400) is a strange little sander, nice and light, yet it has no guts, the surface needs to be sanded really well with an intermediate sander before considering using the 125. Needless to say i never find it worthwhile to take it out of it's box just to give a microscopic difference in surface quality, and i sand with a ETS 150/5 all the way.

The ETS 150 is the king of Festool random orbital sanders, best combination of power, weight and ergonomics. Personally i prefer the /5 model because it can do anything. It's the basics to start with.

I'm surprised you say this about the ETS125 - yes it's a finishing sander ONLY, but the OP is talking 100-320 grit range.

I don't own the ETS125 - I do own the ETS150/5, that's why I've been playing with the ETS125 ... I liked how light is is for a small finisher.

(all said - the legacy paper hole pattern issue makes things more complicated)

I have a RO 90 and RO 150 - love them both, surprised also on the comments on the RO 125 - I thought it'd be a good "in the middle job". I'd be interested on others thoughts on this.

The EST150/5 is a cracker ... I'm also at a crossroad now ... Seems overkill to get a ETS150/3 for me - but it simplifies paper grades and sizes  [smile]

I've always used a delta sander for corners only - never been one for applying them to general use. Apart from my RO 90, my current delta is a RUPES and I don't love it. (I suppose the Fein multimaster can be a delta option too ... but no dust collection!)

Suppose I just feel like I'm doing the ironing when I'm using a delta - I hate ironing  [sad] all said, I suppose you don't swap irons!

I was going to get a buch of triangular grades for te RO 90 - now I'm not so sure ... Hmmm.
 
Kev said:
I was going to get a buch of triangular grades for te RO 90 - now I'm not so sure ... Hmmm.

For my next Festool purchase, I've been looking at getting a sander to handle the corners, since I now have ones for everything else. In Paul Marcel's review of the RO 90, he points out that one of the nice things about its delta pad is that you can rotate the abrasive pads as you wear out the tip, making each piece last three times longer. That has me leaning towards the RO 90 as my next purchase—over, say, the DTS 400—pretty much for that reason.

Here's Paul's review of the RO 90:

Festool RO-90 DX Multi-Mode Sander Review

BTW, I'm pretty sure the MultiMaster has dust collection. At least some of the pads and abrasives have holes and there is a dust collection system. Hmm, maybe I should do some testing of this before I spend any more money.
 
EWTHeckman said:
Kev said:
I was going to get a buch of triangular grades for te RO 90 - now I'm not so sure ... Hmmm.

For my next Festool purchase, I've been looking at getting a sander to handle the corners, since I now have ones for everything else. In Paul Marcel's review of the RO 90, he points out that one of the nice things about its delta pad is that you can rotate the abrasive pads as you wear out the tip, making each piece last three times longer. That has me leaning towards the RO 90 as my next purchase—over, say, the DTS 400—pretty much for that reason.

Here's Paul's review of the RO 90:

Festool RO-90 DX Multi-Mode Sander Review

BTW, I'm pretty sure the MultiMaster has dust collection. At least some of the pads and abrasives have holes and there is a dust collection system. Hmm, maybe I should do some testing of this before I spend any more money.

This is the video I watched the night before I went to the shop for the RO 90. I had played with it, liked it - but (once again) Paul Marcel pushed my "buy it" button.

 
Kev said:
I was personally considering the Mirka Ceros 125 - but the hassle of the DC transformer and the fiddliness of the vacuum connection are enough to put me off it.

Kev

Those two points bothered me too, but with a little creativity I worked out both those issues.  The sander isn't as vibration-free as the Festools but I like the size, and agility of the CEROS.
 
I recommend getting the 150/3.In spite of the fact that you have sandpaper for a 5" sander, the time you will save using the 150/3 will make you forget the extra you spend on new sandpaper.I tried the 125 sander and sent it back,I thought it was a a joke and I assure you you will spend triple the time sanding with it over the 6" 150/3.If you want high quality paper at a great price buy from Klingspors.You can get 50 disks in the 6" size for around $24. I liked the sander so much that I got the 150/5 to sand up to the 150 grit range and then finish out with the 150/3.I don't save a huge amount of time doing that but I hate sanding and every time saver helps.
 
OP,  if I may ask, where did you buy your cache of Diablo sandpaper?
I recently saw HD was carrying this,  and since they still have their wonderful "return policy" I am hoping you purchased at one of their big orange boxes, as they are pretty good about accepting returns.

and as this has also been pointed out,  you can "buy it and try it" with any FESTOOL...  no strings,  no guilt trip.  buy the Festool tool of your choice, and try it for 30 days.  if for any reason, you wish to send it back,  you'll have no problem doing so.

Now, it is late and I am tired, so please don't take any offense to this:
You're coming off of a worn out Porter Cable and a Craftsman.  Any Festool you pickup is going to seem almost surreal.  there aren't any close comparisons, besides the fact they're all called "Sanders" 

I don't know what your intended use is; or your intent, aside from your range of grits, so I wouldn't jump to anything conclusive.

I use an RO90, an RO125, an LS130 and a RAS115.
I'm a Professional user, and I depend on these tools for my livelihood.  while I'm working hard to add a couple more Festool sanders to my arsenal,  I can easily tackle any stair, millwork, furniture, cabinet as well as a myriad of other tasks I often encounter (from composites to metals to plastics and even automotive)  quite successfully.

If I had to pick only 1,  -the RO90 is clearly the most versatile

and while I hear you about the finishing sander needs, you're also talking about using 100g.  It sounds to me like you would most likely want the versatility of another ROTEX.  the 125 or the 150.      -I LOVE my RO125,  as I sand from 80g through 150g/220g  for most of my products,  and beyond that I am either taking the parts to the Finisher,  or I am setting up to finish.  sanding beyond 150-180 causes anomalies in the finish,  and once the wash coat goes on,  I'm just knocking the "Crunchies" off with a sponge... 

I suspect you are wanting to get rid of those tiny scratch circles caused by your PC and Craftsman sanders.
Using proper dust extraction and the right abrasive will solve that as soon as you're driving a Festool.

With Staircases,  EVERYTHING is under scrutiny.  -they're most often the focal point to begin with,  they're really expensive,  and everyone that passes through puts every part under the proverbial microscope.
I used to have a lot of problems with those 'sanding-pecker-tracks' that inferior sanders always leave.  that and the fact that I tried getting into corners with a Fein MultiMaster  (befitting they are now being sold at the big orange box, but I digress...)
this always caused damage, and I always had to go back and hand sand. 
That nonsense is now a thing of the past,  and while it seems like those quotes to the rhetoric of "Festool Sanders actually make sanding enjoyable"  are actually TRUE for anyone who has gone through years of not only hating sanding,  but LOATHING having to fix the damage caused by doing something they already despise...  insult to injury as it's called. 
but with these little gems,  it's an altogether different experience.
and it will put a smile on your face  ;D

You're in NJ, right?      go here: http://www.festoolusa.com/where-to-buy/dealer-locator.html  put in your zip code, and pick out some dealers in your area.  I  find 5 of them within a 15 mile radius of Newark,  so  -you got it good!  the closest (only) one to me is an hour away  :-\
-go check 'em out.  take some samples of you work with you and try them out.
you'll know which is right for you.
and remember, if after a couple weeks you find you've regret,  you can return it (under the 30day buy and try deal-e-o)

OH,  and FYI, I have used "Diablo" abrasives on my RO125 when I ran out of 5" Rubin,  and while the extraction wasn't as good, I still had far better extraction than anything else I've ever used with a shop vac.

Do you own a dust extractor that can be used with a Festool sander?

 
stairman said:
OP,  if I may ask, where did you buy your cache of Diablo sandpaper?
I recently saw HD was carrying this,  and since they still have their wonderful "return policy" I am hoping you purchased at one of their big orange boxes, as they are pretty good about accepting returns.

Yeah, HD around the corner from me. Not a really big deal since they were cheap enough that I can always give them away to my brother in law or something. I'm just sort of cheap, errr Thrifty, (yeah that's a good word :) ) about some things. I bought a bunch of 5 packs of varying grits so maybe $30 - 35 worth but as a hobbiest/home owner, that'd probably last me quite a long time normally. I know in comparison the the cost of any Festool tool that's not a lot of cash though so in the big scheme I'm not too concerned about buying new paper...

stairman said:
I suspect you are wanting to get rid of those tiny scratch circles caused by your PC and Craftsman sanders.

Pretty much on the nose. I am building kitchen cabinets out of maple and am making a lot of doors right now. Stain finds and amplifies the tiny scratches like nothing else. I find 180 grit is about the right level to go to with the stain to get the shading I want so I probably don't need to go down to an ultra fine level for this project but other things that I have on my to do list like jewelry boxes and such, I may want to so I am trying to get something that can handle a decent range. 

The PC isn't a bad sander but the vibration and noise level had been getting worse on it over the last few months and one of the holes in the plate that holds the pad stripped out the other day. I can probably buy new bearings, new plate and change the belt but once I do all that, the issue could still be the motor and I'll have spent $40 in parts and shipping which was what the sander cost to begin with. And I like my Festool router so I'm willing to give the sanders a shot... :)

stairman said:
Using proper dust extraction and the right abrasive will solve that as soon as you're driving a Festool.
...
Do you own a dust extractor that can be used with a Festool sander?

I have a CT Midi that actually works very well with the PC sander on a lower setting.

So far from all the comments I am sort of waffling between the RO 90 DX and the ETS-125. I'm a little concerned about 100 - 180 grit on the ETS-125 now which would be the range I need most for the kitchen cabinet doors which is probably going to be the main usage for the next few months. The RO 90 DX might work out OK on the doors and the delta pad would probably get some use in corners on the panels. I'm concerned that the ETS-150/3 might be too big to control well on the 2 1/2" rail and stile on the cabinet doors but I haven't used a 6" ROS before so I'm not sure...

I have some time though so any other options or recommendations would be appreciated.
Thanks
-Jim
 
JimB1 said:
So far from all the comments I am sort of waffling between the RO 90 DX and the ETS-125. I'm a little concerned about 100 - 180 grit on the ETS-125 now which would be the range I need most for the kitchen cabinet doors which is probably going to be the main usage for the next few months. The RO 90 DX might work out OK on the doors and the delta pad would probably get some use in corners on the panels. I'm concerned that the ETS-150/3 might be too big to control well on the 2 1/2" rail and stile on the cabinet doors but I haven't used a 6" ROS before so I'm not sure...

I have some time though so any other options or recommendations would be appreciated.
Thanks
-Jim

You won't find a bigger fan of the ETS 125 than me but I will be the first to tell you that it unsuitable for sanding below 150 grit.
 
Richard Leon said:
You won't find a bigger fan of the ETS 125 than me but I will be the first to tell you that it unsuitable for sanding below 150 grit.

You're going to have to define "unsuitable".  I rarely use anything above 150 grit with my ETS125.  You'll fine 80 grit on mine most of the time.  I use it mostly for painting prep. 
 
"Unsuitable" as in there are better options. If it works for you- fine- but if I am sanding below 180 or 220 I use my Rotex. It gets me to the finish line quicker.

I only use my ETS 125 for the most delicate work, such as finish sanding, or veneer sanding.
 
EWTHeckman said:
BTW, I'm pretty sure the MultiMaster has dust collection. At least some of the pads and abrasives have holes and there is a dust collection system. Hmm, maybe I should do some testing of this before I spend any more money.

Okay. I did some playing around uh, experimenting. The MultiMaster does have a dust collection system available. Here it is fully assembled:

[attachthumb=1]

Here's the business end. The felt pad rides against the back of the sanding pad to seal things.

[attachthumb=2]

Here are the disassembled pieces. As I was resizing the picture, I realized that the business end and the tube are upside down relative to each other. The visible side of the tube goes against the MM, with the clip at the very bottom holding on at the back. My kit came with two different sized hose connectors. The smaller one (shown) fits quite nicely into the 27mm hose. The larger one doesn't fit any of the Festool hoses.

[attachthumb=3]

The dust collection seems to be about as effective as the RO 125.

I need to do more experimenting, but my first impression of the sanding quality is that it doesn't do as nice a job as the RO 125. I'll need to do a more detailed side by side comparison to be sure.
 
EWTHeckman said:
I need to do more experimenting, but my first impression of the sanding quality is that it doesn't do as nice a job as the RO 125. I'll need to do a more detailed side by side comparison to be sure.

After more playing around, uh, experimenting, I have some results. These two pictures are side by side comparisons of the results obtained with the MultiMaster vs. RO 125 in random orbit mode. In both pictures the MM results are at the top end of the board, with the RO 125 at the bottom. The MM used the stock abrasives it came with. On the RO 125 I used Granat with the hard pad. The first picture is using 80 for both. The second is 120. I didn't bother with pictures for the 180 because I figured the camera might not be able to pick up enough detail; but the results were similar.

[attachthumb=1]
[attachthumb=2]

That settles it for me. I'm buying a RO 90 to add to my stable. For sanding, the MM is being relegated to "only when I'm desperate."
 
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