getting ready to buy kapex, advice sought

[erikfsn]

I wanted to thank everybody for their input to my post here. I got a lot of information and ended up
buying a kapex on thursday. It's the first scms I've bought in 30 years (used to have an hitachi back
when I was a boatbuilder).

So far I'm very happy with it, I feel like a kid with a new toy. 

Since I only have space for one slider, I wanted it to be the best one out there (I like nice tools)
and I think I got it. I'm really appreciating the features it has over the slider my partner has.

 

[mastercabman]

I wanted to thank everybody for their input to my post here. I got a lot of information and ended up
buying a kapex on thursday. It's the first scms I've bought in 30 years (used to have an hitachi back
when I was a boatbuilder).

So far I'm very happy with it, I feel like a kid with a new toy. 

Since I only have space for one slider, I wanted it to be the best one out there (I like nice tools)
and I think I got it. I'm really appreciating the features it has over the slider my partner has.

Good deal!  hope you enjoy your new toy better than i did.

 

[nickao]

rnt80 I am not a teacher, but have 6 kids and deal with their Friends and activities and you know what:

There is no difference between them and us grown men, our toys just cost a lot more.  ;D

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

I wanted to thank everybody for their input to my post here. I got a lot of information and ended up
buying a kapex on thursday. It's the first scms I've bought in 30 years (used to have an hitachi back
when I was a boatbuilder).

So far I'm very happy with it, I feel like a kid with a new toy. 

Since I only have space for one slider, I wanted it to be the best one out there (I like nice tools)
and I think I got it. I'm really appreciating the features it has over the slider my partner has.

Awesome, congratulations! I'm glad to hear that your Kapex is working well out of the box. Maybe you can post some pics sometime soon?  8)

 

[glass1]

I owned the kapex briefly and spent time on the phone talking to festool and spent time taking the handle and spring plate off. I know it is not PC to state ones opinion as fact but  the POROBLEM with the saw is bigger than the steel plate. First off the saw will not securely lock out of a detente with the straight plate - it needs the more aggressive US plate- but this plate causes scraping. The miter scale which the miter lock locks onto is too thin (ie susceptible to warpage ie movement and with the microscopic tolerance designed into the mechanism this too can cause problems. I have no doubt that even if your miter lock and mechanism work now it will eventually fail. All this said I still have confidence that festool will come up with a good design  at least that is what they told me  call them yourself.

 

[erikfsn]

Hi Tom,

As requested, here is a picture. I've been using the saw for a couple of days and all seems well so far.
No adjustments have been needed and no complaints. I love the way it cuts.

Erik

 

[Bro]

The Kapex does have a detent override.
Brice, you are incorrect.  a detent override turns off and dis-engages the detent locking, what the Kapex has is a detent release. go try any cheap Dewalt miter saw, they come with two detent controls, a release and an override. it's a usefull feature that certainly should be on any well designed miter saw. (it's also a feature that should be familiar to anyone reviewing professional equipment)

I respectfully disagree. I agree that the Dewalt saws have a system to disengage the miter detents, but which other saws have that feature? I know for sure that what is widely considered the premier miter saw series (Makita sliders) have no such system, neither does the Hitachi saws, I don't think the Bosch saws have it, and I don't think the new Milwaukee saws have it either. I agree that sounds like a nice feature, but I've never missed it, it's completely natural for me to just depress the thumb button to get past the detents. I'm just saying that it sounds like you're making a jab specifically at one saw, where maybe you could say you really like the feature and wish it was available on more than one or two brands of saw? 

The bosch saws has the miter over ride.This was one of the reason i took my Kapex back.
It was to hard to dial in small increment.
For the price,the saw should be perfect.

Mastercab, I couldn't agree more.  There are other features of this saw I don't care for but in my opinion the miter table is the worst.  They put no money into that part of the saw.  They tried to copy Dewalt and did a poor job.

 

[Bro]

Peter, thanks for your support, it means a lot!

Bro, I think you read my review with your own Festool bias engaged. The following quotes are from my review (copyright 2008).

    ......I used my 7" Incra guaranteed square, with bright sunlight backlighting the square to check the fence for square. As you can see in this photo there is a small amount of light visible. After checking both fences all along entire range of travel this gap was relatively consistent. The picture makes it look like there is much more of a gap then there really is. Without the strong backlighting the gap is undetectable. I?m satisfied that this saw?s fences are at a right angle to the saw bed............

Here I'm pointing out the that a very small gap exists in the fence.

...........The lasers didn't check out. Both were off by 1/32". Since other Kapex owners abroad have commented that their saw?s lasers were perfectly set at the factory I was a little surprised by this..........

Misaligned lasers here.

.............The last thing I wanted to check was the machining on the fence extensions. I removed the fences to have a look at the quality of the machining, it was fine, but there was a burr left from the process. These burrs was very thin and extended part of the length of the both fence. I was able to easily remove it with my fingernail. The burrs themselves didn't interfere with the operation of the fences. However, if the burr was to break loose of the fence and lodge into the slot, perhaps then, the fence could bind.........

There burrs left be the machining left behind and I was concerned they might cause the fence to bind.

.............Moving the saw back and forth setting the miter angle is a bit stiff, that may just be because of the tight tolerances and the fact the saw is new.............

Stiff movement of the miter table.

........I noticed the sound of metal to metal when adjusting the bevel, so took the back of the saw off to see what was making the sound. It?s the bevel locking device that makes this sound. The bevel lock rides along a steel flange (that also acts as the stops for the bevel setting); in this picture you can see a small line where the lock rides along the flange. I don't see this doing damage to the saw, but time will tell.........

Concern for the metal on metal sound might be a long term issue.

......The Kapex?s power switch (trigger) is two stage like the TS plunge cut saws, with one difference. The trigger must be pressed part way to lower the saw blade, then the safety button then the trigger can be pressed all the way to the ?On? position. At first I found this very awkward...........

I mention that I felt the handle was awkward.

.........The Kapex is manufactured with relatively tight tolerances. The good part is that the saw is precise, with almost no slop or deflection, this produces great cuts. The other side is the saw is a little stiff in the mitering and beveling of the saw............

The issue of stiffness is brought up again.

...........Of course the blade can deflect also, some people prefer full kerf blade for bevel cuts compound miters. I like thin kerf blades, but my first choice is to use a full kerf on a thicker, stiffer blade for mitering (bevel cut) tall hardwood baseboard. The Kapex blades are 2.5 mm (around 3/32?) they fit into the thin kerf category.........

I state I preferred a full kerf blade.

.........The point being, take look at the type of material being used and weigh it against the standard of cleanliness for the job..........

Here's a very practical comment on the Kapex's dust collection.

Here are some other things discovered during use. When cutting stock standing up in the saw, using the portion of the blade above the arbor, you're limited to about 7/8? thickness. You can see from the picture part of the saw gets in the way of thicker stock being cut on a 45? miter to the right.

With the saw?s fences extensions on the saw won't bevel to 45?, this is the case with all miter saws. The bevel gauge (scale) also can get in the way of the fence extension when mitering to 60?.

Sometimes the dust shroud can interfere with aligning and making a cut.............

There is one thing I don't like about the blade guard: it can get hung up on the long point of a miter.........   

I think the excerpts here speak for themselves.

I ask that you guys please read my comments without your bias towards Festool or me. I'm a real user with real opinions and they aren't always raving about Festool products. My reviews are far more balanced than some of you guys give my credit for.

Bro, Festool has provided the Kapex and few router accessories to me (free) for review purposes.

EDIT: I forgot to add this, yes I would recommend the Kapex. My experience is the saw is the best on the market. If you happen to get a bad saw your experience will be different. Festool will fix or replace any defective saw so it isn't much of a risk buying one.

Brice, OK good come back!  I am a little tempermental and can come over the top to much at times.  Lets just focus on my biggest beef with the Kapex.  The miter table...are you telling me that miter table is the best on the market.  I mean is it the easiest to adjust? Dial it right in? Really smooth?  Or is the handle ready to fall of from beating it back and forth?  Ok Ok there I go again, sorry.  No really what do you think? 

The bevel adjustment is really nice and the saw cuts sooooo smooth.  The dust collection, not as good as they say.  It is light but if you consider you then need to carry a vacuum cleaner say 35 lbs and the mft/kapex what 55 to 60 lbs, it's not so light anymore!  There is no doubt you need a good base for that saw because the way it is made(honey comb design) it will be prone to deflection.  What say you?

Oh ya by the way, I don't have a Festool bias, I really love their stuff I have the ts55, 1400, 2200, mft/3 and a few other less notables.  And will be buying more I'm sure like maybe the 700 router and the c12.  I sip the green cool- aid but not the Kapex cool-aid.  Not this generation anyway

 

[Brice Burrell]

Bro, we're making some progress here. I'm happy to answer your questions. I've not found the miter setting to be overly difficult to adjust. The table is definitely doesn't move as easily as my Makita. The first day using the Kapex I noticed it did require a little more force to tap the miter setting to tweak it. By the end of the day I no longer gave it any thought and haven't since. If the Kapex you tried was having the scraping problem it would have made the miter table harder to adjust. With a working saw it isn't a big deal. Like the handle, the turntable is something that is different and it takes the mind to get used to new things. Once you get used to them (and for me that was in the first day of use) they are a non-issue.

Like I said, I've found the dust collection to have met or exceeded my expectations.

As for the weight and the overall setup. I don't factor in the total weight of the saw's whole setup (saw, stand, wings and vac). What is far more important to me is how easy each component is to carry up a flight of stairs. This is what is nice about the Kapex compared to my other saws. It is well balanced and that makes very easy to carry. There's no question bringing a vac is another trip, but chances are I'm going to want the vac anyhow, so it isn't any less convenient. I don't know what the MFT/Kapex weighs but I don't think it is 50 or 60 pounds. It's pretty easy to carry too. I also use the sawhelper stand that is even easier to move.

Every miter saw's base has a honey comb design so that isn't unique to the Kapex. I've experienced no deflection in my saw's base. I've even used the Festool quick clamps to mount the saw to the MFT and I tightened the clamps as much as they would go just to see what would happen, I noticed no deflection.

The Kapex is like any tool, there are trades offs, sure you have to carry a vac, but you have the best possible dust collection. The turntable doesn't move as freely as other saws and the handle/trigger are awkward to some at first but it is the most accurate saw on the market today. Yes the blade guard can get caught on the point of a miter (other saws do this too) but the bevel can be micro adjusted. The point is the saw's pros far outweigh the cons in my opinion. If the features the Kapex offers could be an asset to one's work that's great, if not, there are other saws out there. There is no question that I'd like to see some changes to the Kapex, but as is, the saw is still the most accurate and has the best dust collection of any saw on the market.

And maybe the term I used (Festool bias) was not right, maybe Kapex bias then, because something made you miss all the comments I quoted above when you first read my review. 

 

[honeydoman]

brice,

I agree with your comments. and I also think the turntable should turn more freely as all the other saws do.  and I hope festool addresses this problem.

 

[MiterMaster]

The dust collection, not as good as they say.  It is light but if you consider you then need to carry a vacuum cleaner say 35 lbs and the mft/kapex what 55 to 60 lbs, it's not so light anymore! 

From Festool's website it states the MFT / 3-Kapex table weighs 42 lbs.  Even when I used my Makita or Bosch miter saws I would always hook them up to dust collection, so carrying the vac to the jobsite is something I would do with any saw, not just the Kapex.

When I was using the Bosch miter saw, a heavy beast by the way, I had it hooked to the SawHelper system, so had to carry that to the jobsite, so it's not a big deal to now bring along the Kapex table.  It's actually easier for me to carry the Kapex table then it was to carry the Bosch which was attached to the SawHelper base.

From my own experience, the Kapex has the best dust collection out of any saw I have used in the past, which = less clean up time.  Add to that a much lighter, easier to carry saw as well as it's accuracy + other nice features and you have a great saw in the Kapex.

Mike

 

[mastercabman]

The dust collection is not as good as advertised.  No way does that saw collect 90% of the saw dust.  Plus the dust scroud needs removed to make certain cuts and bumps into just about everything.

Bro,what size hose did you use when you tried the saw with vac?  The reason i'm asking is because,when i had the Kapex,i used the 36mm hose,and i was pleased with the dust collection.not 100%,but pretty close.Of course i can't tell you the exact % ,but best so far.

 

[glass1]

I respectfully disagree with "the kapex is the most accurate scms". The makitas are pretty damn accurate and if careful the 10" hitachi is right there. I feel the bosch, ridgid, and dewalt are little more sloppy. The new milwaukee is pretty tight as well. If the kapex cannot hold a locked position just outside of a detente(mine could not with the new plate how accurate is it  how does one measure accuracy ? I think there are a lot of pleasing things about using the kapex but it is not really the step up that I expected. Maybe I expected too much but even if the saw cost 900 I would have returned it. That said if festool can solve the issues I might in the future reconsider it. I think it is a mistake for everybody to define themselves by which scms they use.

 

[Brice Burrell]

brice,

I agree with your comments. and I also think the turntable should turn more freely as all the other saws do.  and I hope festool addresses this problem.

Kreg, in all fairness the turntable is designed to have resistance so it is less likely to move during a cut if you don't lock the miter setting. So calling this a problem isn't correct. I'm with you, I'd like to glide like my Makita. I know others had removed the turntable's lock washer and replaced it with a nylon washer, this lets it move like other saws.

 

[honeydoman]

i understand.  I also think people like us, professional carpenters who do tons of moldings or crown where we are turning the turn table back and fourth at a fast rate over and over again during the day.  then it is a PIA to have it tight.  those that work in their shop who do a lot of straight cuts its great.

if I get #5 I will put the nylon washer on it and see whats up!

 

[mastercabman]

brice,

I agree with your comments. and I also think the turntable should turn more freely as all the other saws do.  and I hope festool addresses this problem.

Kreg, in all fairness the turntable is designed to have resistance so it is less likely to move during a cut if you don't lock the miter setting. So calling this a problem isn't correct. I'm with you, I'd like to glide like my Makita. I know others had removed the turntable's lock washer and replaced it with a nylon washer, this lets it move like other saws.

Sorry Brice,but i don't think this makes any sense.When you are at 0* or 22.5* or 45* the detent locks in so that the table does not move.
If you are cutting off of a detent,for example,28.7* then you use the handle to lock the table by pressing it down.
But to have resistance while you move the table,has nothing to do with "moving during the cut"

 

[glass1]

I think the best way to understand how the miter lock mechanism works is just bend down under the saw while locking and unlocking and moving the saw and look at the mechanism  it is a simple design  but being a carpenter one can see the flaws in the thickness of materials and measurements of tolerances chosen. No other saw on the market has had this many problems in relation to number of units made. Just because some of the saws work (for now doesn't mean there isn't a design flaw  in other words how many failed saws does festool need to have before a redesign is in order  --  if it was such an easy fix why has it taken so long to get the real fix out -- not the new plate  --I was told by festool weeks ago that a fix would be out within a week or two  WELL ?

 

[Brice Burrell]

Sorry Brice,but i don't think this makes any sense.When you are at 0* or 22.5* or 45* the detent locks in so that the table does not move.
If you are cutting off of a detent,for example,28.7* then you use the handle to lock the table by pressing it down.
But to have resistance while you move the table,has nothing to do with "moving during the cut"

Mastercab, my understanding is that the resistance is sort of a safety feature if one forgets to lock the miter setting. The resistance can reduce the chance of the turntable from moving during the cut preventing the a potential kick back. The proper use is to lock the setting by pushing down the handle.

 

[mastercabman]

Sorry Brice,but i don't think this makes any sense.When you are at 0* or 22.5* or 45* the detent locks in so that the table does not move.
If you are cutting off of a detent,for example,28.7* then you use the handle to lock the table by pressing it down.
But to have resistance while you move the table,has nothing to do with "moving during the cut"

Mastercab, my understanding is that the resistance is sort of a safety feature if one forgets to lock the miter setting. The resistance can reduce the chance of the turntable from moving during the cut preventing the a potential kick back. The proper use is to lock the setting by pushing down the handle.

A safety feature?!? I still don't think it makes a whole lot of sense.Did you get this information from Festool?
Does the manual tells you that?
Like you point it out,The "proper"use is to lock the setting by pushing down the handle. Why wouldn't you?

 

[Bro]

Sorry Brice,but i don't think this makes any sense.When you are at 0* or 22.5* or 45* the detent locks in so that the table does not move.
If you are cutting off of a detent,for example,28.7* then you use the handle to lock the table by pressing it down.
But to have resistance while you move the table,has nothing to do with "moving during the cut"

Mastercab, my understanding is that the resistance is sort of a safety feature if one forgets to lock the miter setting. The resistance can reduce the chance of the turntable from moving during the cut preventing the a potential kick back. The proper use is to lock the setting by pushing down the handle.

With out sounding like a smart ass.  It sounds like a Festool salesman gave Brice a load of BS about why miter table is so stiff.  I have never had a saw kickback because of that.  It slows the use of the saw down which goes against what Festool is about.