glueing broken plastic on CT SYS

[72chevy4x4]

took me 3 months to find a 'new' corded CT SYS and found it sustained some damage during transit.  oddly enough, only reason I'm not using my original 2018 CT SYS is because the black plastic has continued to break over the last two years. 

Did Festool choose an inferior type of plastic for some or all of the dust extractors?  I added a CT 36AC to the tool stable two years ago and the hose garage feels like a different material then the corded CT SYS. 

what type of glue/superglue would you recommend to repair the garage hose? All of the pieces are accounted for View attachment 1

 

[Packard]

Well, Systainers are molded from ABS according to what I found online.  That is a high grade of engineered resin.  It should be quite durable. 

You should contact Festool to determine if this component is also molded from ABS.  It would be impossible to determine that by examination.  Of course they could specify the ABS and the injection molding company could feel that they know better than Festool and feel free to substitute a cheaper grade of resin.

If it is ABS, then there are products specified for repairs.  I have no experience with this type of repair.  Look here for information on this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=repairs+to+abs+plastic&client=firefox-b-1-m&sca_esv=589119146&sxsrf=AM9HkKkVv0O_8j31TUKy4-Fm1sii6c7CfA%3A1702052675694&ei=Q0NzZfDiKeaA5OMP4-GxiAQ&oq=repairs+to+abs&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiDnJlcGFpcnMgdG8gYWJzKgIIADIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABMggQIRgWGB4YHTIIECEYFhgeGB0yCBAhGBYYHhgdMggQIRgWGB4YHTIIECEYFhgeGB0yCBAhGBYYHhgdMggQIRgWGB4YHTIIECEYFhgeGB1IzWZQ9wtY1FJwBHgBkAEAmAHVAaABsRuqAQYzNi4zLjG4AQHIAQD4AQGoAhTCAgoQABhHGNYEGLADwgIEECMYJ8ICBhAAGBYYHsICCxAAGIAEGIoFGIYDwgIHEAAYgAQYCsICCxAAGIAEGIoFGJECwgIFEAAYgATCAg4QABiABBiKBRiRAhixA8ICCxAAGIAEGLEDGIMBwgIIEAAYgAQYsQPCAgoQABiABBiKBRhDwgIREAAYgAQYigUYkQIYsQMYgwHCAg0QABiABBiKBRhDGLEDwgIOEC4YgAQYsQMYgwEY1ALCAgoQIxiABBiKBRgnwgIREC4YgAQYsQMYgwEYxwEY0QPCAg4QLhiABBiKBRixAxiDAcICCBAuGIAEGLEDwgILEC4YgAQYsQMYgwHCAgcQIxjqAhgnwgIUEAAYgAQY4wQY6QQY6gIYtALYAQHCAhYQABgDGI8BGOUCGOoCGLQCGIwD2AECwgIWEC4YAxiPARjlAhjqAhi0AhiMA9gBAsICCBAuGLEDGIAEwgIREC4YgAQYsQMYgwEYxwEYrwHCAgsQLhiABBjHARivAcICCxAuGK8BGMcBGIAEwgIaEC4YrwEYxwEYgAQYlwUY3AQY3gQY4ATYAQPCAggQABgWGB4YD-IDBBgAIEGIBgGQBgi6BgYIARABGAG6BgYIAhABGAu6BgYIAxABGBQ&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

If this is a part that is breaking regularly, my suspicion is that the molder is cheating Festool.  ABS is a particularly tough resin.  There might be tests that can be performed to determine the resin used.

A google search shows that there is an easy do-it-yourself test to check.

It involves a bucket of water and checking if the plastic floats.
https://2lians.com/blogs/plastic-recycling-news/how-to-recognize-abs-plastic#

 

[woodbutcherbower]

The material on the CT-SYS is all ABS plastic, including the black hose garage. It’s tough but brittle, and it doesn’t like being flexed. Most original-type hose garage failures I’ve seen originate from the user attempting to pick up a loaded extractor by the rim of the garage - it firstly bends a little under the strain, then it breaks. Festool subsequently changed the hose garage material on all of their larger extractors to a softer, more flexible one to combat this - hence the difference you’ve noticed.

The best way to permanently repair ABS is via solvent welding. Acetone is the best solvent to use, since it dissolves the plastic much more gently and in a more controlled way than more aggressive solvents such as xylene or methylene chloride. For your repair, reattach one fragment at a time. Use a small (half-inch) paintbrush and liberally dab your acetone onto both edges of the pieces to be jointed. Try and do the edges only - any solvent going onto the face of the plastic will mark it - the best way is to hold your brush at 90 degrees to the edge and dab it on. Wait 30 seconds for it to soften the plastic edges, then repeat. Wait another 30 seconds, then bring the two pieces firmly together. You’ll see a small line of molten plastic squeeze out of the joint as you push the pieces together. Wait a few minutes for the joint to harden, and then continue with this process until all of your broken fragments are fixed back on. Once the joints have set rock-hard (give it overnight to be sure), you can use a utility knife blade as a scraper to flatten the solidified squeeze-out if it bothers you.

Hope that helps.
Kevin

Edit - how do I know that acetone’s a great ABS solvent? Imagine 3 Systainers in a stack, with a small (only 500ml) plastic bottle part-full of acetone which has fallen over and is now lying on its side in the top one. Now imagine that the bottle has a faulty cap and it drip-leaks. Now imagine putting the stack in your van overnight, not knowing the above. Now imagine a next-morning swamp of melted ABS where the floors and lids of your 3 Systainers used to be. It ate through all 3 - just like the famous ‘molecular acid’ scene in the first Alien movie  [unsure]

If you can’t buy acetone locally and you're desperate, it’s also commonly sold in drug & beauty stores as nail polish remover. The bottle will be the size of a postage stamp, it will have a fancy brand name on it, and it will cost 20x more than it should. Patience and Amazon are your friends.

 

[rvieceli]

[member=17381]woodbutcher[/member]  [eek] [eek] [eek]

 

[Packard]

They sell ABS welding rod, which I assume is used with a sonic welder.  I would think that they would have no market for that stuff if acetone worked as well as welding.

There are dedicated materials for repairing ABS.  Since this is a very small job, I would be inclined to use material that is designed specifically for that purpose.  Perhaps they all work as well, and perhaps the dedicated materials are easier to use. 

At any event, the link I made in my earlier post will show a bunch of methods for repair. 

Perhaps over-coating the part with vinyl dip would enhance the strength of the part.  And perhaps Festool should be made aware of the weakness so that they can engineer the problem into oblivion.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

[member=74278]Packard[/member] The ‘Easy ABS Repair’ product you linked to is acetone with some ABS resin pre-dissolved into it to thicken it up. The addition of the extra ABS makes for a stronger joint if you’re fixing a foot-long crack in an RV fender rather than something small like this. I’ve done several Systainer repairs using acetone and it works just fine. It also taught me not to stand on them.

 

[ElectricFeet]

[member=18687]72chevy4x4[/member] Or if you have a simple soldering iron, weld it. It’s not a pretty solution, though if you do it well it can be made to look OK. Welding has the advantage that you can add more ABS and even add some wire for strength too.

Here’s an instructional video showing how to use a fancy kit that you can buy to do this. It shows the techniques well, but you don’t need the fancy kit. Regular staples (or even thin copper electrical wire) / any old bits of extra ABS / a normal soldering iron work fine:

 

[Packard]

They used to (and probably still do) repair cracked iron castings in large punch presses by “stitching” the pieces together.  They even stitched fractured castings.  I have seen the result and apparently those repairs are as strong as the original.

The method has them drill a hole on either side of the crack so that the holes intersect at the crack.  Then they drive 1/4” or 3/8” diameter brass or copper rod until it enters one side and exits from the other.  After all the “sutures” have been applied, they braze the crack and the holes.  Though I believe the brazing is just to make a cosmetically appealing surface.

The point I am making is that you can drill very small holes on either side of the crack and “stitch” the cracked pieces together.  Add to that the acetone based adhesives, and you can probably make a pretty decent repair. 

Back in the 1960s I had a track bicycle which I raced at a local bike track.  The wheels had to be perfectly true, and the light weight rims and reduced number of spokes made that a maintenance chore.  So we “tied and soldered” the spokes.  At the point where the spokes crossed, I used a very fine gage of brass wire (from the hobby store) and wrapped the “X” created by the crossing spokes in both vertical and horrizontal directions.  It was important to have the wrapping be tight and tidy, representing a miniature noose in appearance. 

Once that was done, I applied solder flux and soldered the joint.  Those joints never failed and the wheels held their true for far longer than the untied used to. 

You cannot solder these as it will melt the plastic.  But dental floss makes an exceptionally strong thread and can be sewn through small holes easily.  The fused plastic will probably seal the thread in place.  Just a thought.

I see that Metalock has changed the process over the last 50 years.  But still, and interesting process.

 

[rst]

Having 45 years of plastic fab experience, I recommend regular modelling glue.  It is thickened acetone.  I have a plastic welder but I would never use it to repair such thin material.  I would glue a patch over the break to strengthen it, not just relying on joining the piece.  The other alternative is MEK, but that is nasty stuff.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Having 45 years of plastic fab experience, I recommend regular modelling glue.  It is thickened acetone.  I have a plastic welder but I would never use it to repair such thin material.  I would glue a patch over the break to strengthen it, not just relying on joining the piece.  The other alternative is MEK, but that is nasty stuff.

This ^^^^^^^ ABS is readily soluble in organic chemical compounds known as 'ketones'. Acetone is a ketone. MEK - Methyl Ethyl Ketone. That's why an acetone solvent-weld works, that's why it's worked on the numerous repairs I've done, and why those (mostly self-inflicted and 'what was I thinking?) repairs are still as strong as original solid material many years down the line.

Every question on this forum is almost always met with a flood of incredibly well-meaning replies which are all honestly posted in great spirit, and which are all posted to be as helpful as possible to the OP. That's the guys we are. But just a few posts in - I've read posts about vinyl weld primers, ABS welding rods, staples, sonic welders, various commercial repair products, stitching with accompanying hole-drilling and dental floss, conspiracy theories about Festool's suppliers cheating on them and faking plastic specifications, melting plastic with soldering irons, the addition of wire, just all sorts - but all genuinely contributed in an effort to help a buddy out. There's absolutely nothing wrong with any of that, and bless the kind hearts of those who've contributed their solutions.

But the OP is a poor guy looking for a quick and reliable fix on a few tiny broken pieces back onto a small corner of a Sys3-sized extractor. We're not talking Golden-Gate-Bridge-Major-Structural-Repairs here.

So my take and my final contribution? I've done half a dozen fixes on my broken Systainers with acetone, with 100% successful long-term results. I'm no ABS guru who knows everything (nor would I ever claim to be) - but in my experience, there's absolutely no need for any of the above (100% well-meaning) over-thinking or over-complication. Solvent-weld it with acetone. Simple fixes are often the best, the cheapest, and the quickest.

And to the OP - I hope you get fixed up. 
Kevin

 

[Packard]

[…]But the OP is a poor guy looking for a quick and reliable fix on a few tiny broken pieces back onto a small corner of a Sys3-sized extractor.[…]

Buy new…

 

[Vtshopdog]

I fixed mine with two part epoxy to reattach broken piece then once bond set wrapped over both sides with some fiberglass and hit with black rattle can.  Not pretty but good enough and stronger than new.  Had everything laying around and total of maybe 25 minutes actual work but had to allow set time for each step so the vac was unavailable for maybe two days.

[attachimg=1]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Or you coould do what this guy did  [eek]

 

[ElectricFeet]

Or you coould do what this guy did  [eek]

Haha. Zip ties were the repair of choice for motorini (scooter) windshields (when the user had one) for around 30 years or so here in Rome. You occasionally saw a bumper like that around these parts too. Fallen put of use now, but that brought back memories [laughing]

 

[72chevy4x4]

you guys offer a wealth of information and I appreciate the technical notes on possible repairs. 

I have welded abs and other plastics with the electric welding 'torch' (and compressed air) and have used the 'stitcher' welder with descent results on repairing a plastic dashboard on an RV.  not with perfect results, but it was a learning experience. 

with my Festool gear, it's been getting noticably more brittle with the texas hot summers and I decided to order new parts from Festool to piece together my CT SYS.  I will try and glue the broken pieces together and may put up the part if someone nearby needs it.  Thanks all!