Guide rail speed square... dedicated 90 for crosscutting and shelf dadoes.

[Dave Ronyak]

DeWalt makes a T-square (90*-only)T-square (90*-only) accessory for its track.  It fits the Festool track as well.  Mine is pretty much dead on.  There's a screw to kill the play in the slot; what little mine is off is due to the play because I remove it from the track often.  If I have a series of crosscuts, I tighten it up and it squares right away.  It is machined from one piece and is easily found for $30.  If you were to dedicate a track... you'd be set even if it took a little shimming under the lock.

I have one of these and posted about it earlier.  I had to disassemble mine repeatedly and file some of the components to get it square to the Guide Rail.  I checked it with multiple Guide Rails to confirm it was the DeWalt T-Square and not the Guide Rail I first chose.  I used a Woodpecker 18" precision Carpenter 45-45-90 Triangle as a Square to confirm I had tuned the DeWalt T-Square to 90 degrees.  But if I am wanting to be as confident as possible, I use that Woodpeckers Right Triangle as my reference.  It's great for confirming that my MFT fence and Guide Rail are square, too.

If you are willing to pay ~US$100 for a dedicated T-Square device for your Guide Rail, you could make one using the Woodpecker Carpenter Triangle and attaching it to your Guide Rail.

Dave R.

 

[Qwas]

I just wanted to post an update. It looks like I have come up with something that will work. It is going through some prototype testing but it looks promising.

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I know the picture doesn't show much but it is about 17 inches long and just about as wide as the TS-55 length. It is made out of aluminum.

 

[Gene Howerton]

How about some Qwas feet to make our older 1080's match the height of the new MFT3?  That would be nice to own as well as this square.

 

[Brice Burrell]

I just wanted to post an update. It looks like I have come up with something that will work. It is going through some prototype testing but it looks promising.

I know the picture doesn't show much but it is about 17 inches long and just about as wide as the TS-55 length. It is made out of aluminum.

Looks good Steve. Question, if we put this thing on the other end of the rail can we get a perfect 45 degrees?

 

[Qwas]

How about some Qwas feet to make our older 1080's match the height of the new MFT3?  That would be nice to own as well as this square.

I just added that to my list to look into.  [smile] No promises yet but I will look into it.

 

[Qwas]

I just wanted to post an update. It looks like I have come up with something that will work. It is going through some prototype testing but it looks promising.

I know the picture doesn't show much but it is about 17 inches long and just about as wide as the TS-55 length. It is made out of aluminum.

Looks good Steve. Question, if we put this thing on the other end of the rail can we get a perfect 45 degrees?

Too many ways to do  45 degrees, how about 30/60 degree instead.  [smile]

 

[Brice Burrell]

Too many ways to do  45 degrees, how about 30/60 degree instead.  [smile]

That would be a distant second second choice. A guide for field expedient miters, now we're talking! 

 

[JEP]

Qwas,  Your triangle does look promising, but with the short length being "about the same" as the base on the TS55, that would keep a person from using a 1400 guide rail from cross cutting 4x8 sheets.  This would be an important feature for me.

How does it register/attach to the guide rail?  Did you design it to be exactly square, or can it be calibrated? 

 

[Qwas]

The 1400 rail is kind of short to begin with, you need a few inches extra on each end to keep the saw running straight.

My screw holes are set up so you will need at least 8 inches of the fence on the rail. That will leave you 1 inch short from reaching the full length of 48 inches. Sorry about that.  [embarassed]

It is hard to tell from the picture but the attaching holes are elongated. The fence can register off an edge to be exactly square or you can use the elongated holes and your own square to get what you want.  [smile]

 

[fshanno]

I just wanted to post an update. It looks like I have come up with something that will work. It is going through some prototype testing but it looks promising.

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I know the picture doesn't show much but it is about 17 inches long and just about as wide as the TS-55 length. It is made out of aluminum.

Steve,

I recommend a notch in the plate so a guide clamp can be used.  Clamping might be necessary when routing dados.

 

[Qwas]

Good idea with the notch but it might interfere with some other uses for the "speed square" or "rail fence". Your notch idea can be done with an auxiliary fence attached to this. I have holes for adding the auxiliary fence.

 

[James Watriss]

Hi Qwas

Looks cool so far. I'm less worried about using it on a 48' sheet than other folks. I started the thread looking for a way to do faster work once the raw stock had been broken down. I also wouldn't rely on a speed square setup to remain accurate over that kind of length anyway. I'm also less interested in a field expedient 45 than I am in a reliable, dedicated 90.

I hate to be one more voice to gripe about what you've accomplished so far. But I do have a gripe.

My main issue is geometrical in nature. Because I slide a speed square along the work, and push it in to hold position, I'd want the back edge of the square to have a face that was square to the rail/parallel to the work, so that any applied force would lock the fence more tightly against the work, and be less likely to make it slide. It's a basic force vector kind of thing. Failing that, a great big hole in the middle to stick a thumb through, for the purposes described above.

Rock on, man. You're making it happen, and it looks good.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Anyone who owns a large Woodpeckers Carpenter's 45-45-90 triangle-shaped square could bore some holes through the flat flange attached to one of the short sides and attach a sacrificial piece of plywood to that flange which would extend under the Guide Rail and be cut off or notched at first use of their TS 55 or TS 75.

Here's another idea that won't cost $50.  Make your own 90 degree cross cut jig from a piece of high quality hardwood plywood such as 1/6 (6mm) if you want to be able to cut 1/4 sheet goods that are resting flat on a table.  Use thicker plywood if that is not a requirement.  You can make the reference and attachment pieces as large as you deem necessary to provide an adequate reference edge and to prevent unwanted flexing out of ninety degrees.

Use Baltic birch plywood and a shop made strip of hardwood machined to fit underside groove of a Guide Rail.  Insert the strip into the groove in the Guide Rail, position the piece of plywood so that its reference edge is at ninety degrees to the Guide Rail, then screw the plywood and hardwood strip together, much like is done when aligning the miter bar strips on a shop made cross cut sled for a table saw.  The plywood piece and hardwood strip could be bored and tapped to allow insertion of hand screw knobs or set screws to hold the jig on the Guide Rail in the same manner that a Festool Guide Rail Connector does.

Want more stability and a jig that could be quickly attached and removed from a Guide Rail?  Make a top cover plate that is machined to fit over the outer most raised land on the Guide Rail.  Attach this cover plate to your plywood piece that carries the ninety degree reference edge with a strip of piano hinge.  Bore through both the plywood piece with the reference edge and the cover plate and insert a T-nut into the bottom of the plywood piece and a threaded knob through the cover plate into the T-nut to clamp this right angle jig to both the top and bottom of a Guide Rail.  Use of this cover plate together with making the bottom plate of the jig from 1/2 inch plywood should eliminate any need to use set screws to secure the hardwood strip of the jig into a bottom groove in a Guide Rail. The pieces of the jig would squeeze the Guide Rail between them.  The hardwood or plastic portions of the jig that engage the grooved underside of the Guide Rail and outer land of the upper side of the Guide Rail could be machined with a slight tapered profile (in the vertical direction relative to the Guide Rail) so that when the bottom and cover pieces of the jig are clamped onto the Guide Rail, these profiled portions self-align and snugly grip the Guide Rail.  I think the only basis for error in such a design is in initial construction of the jig or a deformity such as curvature of the Guide Rail itself.  Aluminum components could be added or substituted for those who want the highest accuracy and most rugged jig construction.

Sorry, I realize a picture would be a big help here, but I am not able to use SketchUp adequately to generate one.

Dave R.

 

[Qwas]

James, it was your list of demands that got me interested in taking this on.  [wink] Your list is reasonable and what I would expect also. I'm expecting accuracy out to 48 inches  but I don't think most understand what that means; a perfectly clean and straight edge to reference from with no minor debris to knock the square out. A 1/64 error on the reference edge makes a 3/64 error on the cutting line at 4 feet. A small sliver on the reference edge would kill any accuracy and everyone would blame my product before checking the reference edge.

I agree that most work will never require a 45 degree cut and the "fence" should be focussed on a good crosscut instead. Making this fence do 45 degrees creates 2 major issues - it requires too much of the guide rail for the fence to rest on and the cost of the product increases rapidly on material and shipping the finished product. Having a fence that uses no more of the rail than the plunge saw seems reasonable to me as long as accuracy is maintained.

I think I understand your geometry. I've used a speed square like you describe many times. Keep in mind with my fence, the speed square is attached to the rail. You will tilt the far end of the rail up and that will allow the rail/fence to slide to the cut line. Bring the rail down and cut. Tilt the rail and slide to the next mark.

I experimented with a big hole in the fence (and I tried 2 big holes) but every time I looked at it all I could see is an accident waiting to happen. While the unit is resting on some wood (or bench or steel bed of the table saw), someone has a finger in the hole, the rail gets knocked by someone else at the far end, and now we have red stained wood and maybe a lost finger.   [scared] I think once you see this in action, you will realized the hole is not needed.

 

[Corwin]

Anyone who owns a large Woodpeckers Carpenter's 45-45-90 triangle-shaped square could bore some holes through the flat flange attached to one of the short sides and attach a sacrificial piece of plywood to that flange which would extend under the Guide Rail and be cut off or notched at first use of their TS 55 or TS 75.

I also own a Woodpecker's 18" carpenters triangle, or speed square.  As far as modifying a square as Dave suggests, a far simpler approach is to make a piece of ply or MDF to account for the offset or width of the guide rail.  Just align a fresh edge of some ply with the back edge of your guide rail and cut the piece to width.  This represents the offset needed to align your square.  To make the piece easier to use, add a heel (or fence) to the underside of the piece so you can easily hold it tight to the edge just like you use the speed square. 

These Woodpeckers squares are very accurate and I fail to see how Festool, Steve or anyone else could offer a product that would prove to be more reliable for aligning your guide rail to 90 degrees.  I certainly mean no disrespect to Steve and his abilities, it is just that I cannot see how any product that would attach to the guide rail would not also come with its own set of problems -- either taking up too much of the rail or simply becoming to cumbersome. 

If you feel that you cannot rely on your speed square to align your guide rail for a 4' cut, buy a better speed square.  And I would certainly recommend the Woodpeckers 18" carpenters triangle.

 

[RONWEN]

Anyone who owns a large Woodpeckers Carpenter's 45-45-90 triangle-shaped square could bore some holes through the flat flange attached to one of the short sides and attach a sacrificial piece of plywood to that flange which would extend under the Guide Rail and be cut off or notched at first use of their TS 55 or TS 75.

I also own a Woodpecker's 18" carpenters triangle, or speed square.  As far as modifying a square as Dave suggests, a far simpler approach is to make a piece of ply or MDF to account for the offset or width of the guide rail.  Just align a fresh edge of some ply with the back edge of your guide rail and cut the piece to width.  This represents the offset needed to align your square.  To make the piece easier to use, add a heel (or fence) to the underside of the piece so you can easily hold it tight to the edge just like you use the speed square.  

These Woodpeckers squares are very accurate and I fail to see how Festool, Steve or anyone else could offer a product that would prove to be more reliable for aligning your guide rail to 90 degrees.  I certainly mean no disrespect to Steve and his abilities, it is just that I cannot see how any product that would attach to the guide rail would not also come with its own set of problems -- either taking up too much of the rail or simply becoming to cumbersome.  

If you feel that you cannot rely on your speed square to align your guide rail for a 4' cut, buy a better speed square.  And I would certainly recommend the Woodpeckers 18" carpenters triangle.

I have to agree, as much as I like the other Qwas products.  I use my 18' Woodpecker's square as you describe all the time -- no lose of usable rail length & dead on accurate.  If it were attached to the rail I think it would tend to be more difficult to slide the whole thing to the desired position because of the rail's grippy rubber strips.  With the square & the rail being separate I set the rail's left edge against the square & "hinge" the rail down into position, making minor adjustments as required.  

 

[James Watriss]

Awesome, Qwas. Sounds like we're pretty much on the same page. My objection to the 45 was that it implies being able to do a 45 in 2 different directions. Not impossible, but I think it's a different jig. And I like the way you're planning this out with the saw.

Re: hole in the fence, you're right. I have enough ways to guillotine my digits. Good call.

One thought re: tilting the rail, it might make sense to extend the fence underneath the rail, to allow it to bolt through the hang hole at the end. (More secure connection, allowing the user to just push down on the fence to lift the end of the rail, and slide. Alternately, it may make sense to bolt through that hole, into a threaded bar, the bar to form a lip come on the back edge of the rail. My logic: use the saw as a counter-weight when tilting the rail.

-Lay the rail down.
-Slide the saw forwards to make the cut.
-Slide the saw back to the lip, and tilt the rail back/up with the saw as a counter-weight. Lip keeps the saw from slipping off the back/downward tilted end.
-Slide the rail to the next layout line.
-Repeat step one.

Modified to add... Extending it further under the rail might also help make it more robust in the event that someone decides to push down on the fence to lift the rail... might keep it from tearing up the T-slot. Bigger/better/more connection points to make a more solidly unified speed-rail.

Just an idea. Ignore it if it impedes progress.

Onwards!

 

[Qwas]

It's a nice idea about using the saw as a counterweight. I will have to look into it.  [smile]

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Qwas has just announced that testing of his Rail Fence is complete, and pre-orders are being accepted. To see the announcement, go to Festool Sales & Dealer Area where you can read about his new product and ask questions.

Forrest

 

[RONWEN]

I'm encouraged to hear that you've made it thicker (.190") and especially that the length of register is 17". I typically use my 18" Woodpecker square to align the rail for perpendicular cuts. As you say, the more length that you can register the better the averaging of the workpiece (register) edge.
How does it "lock" into position once you've initially aligned it on the rail with a square?
Nice product addition Steve!