Guide Rail Square...Do You Get Perfect Square Cuts?

[luvmytoolz]

Someone needs to cut down on the red cordial! ;-)

In all seriousness though Squall, I do agree with some of the sentiments, but woodworking for most people is a journey that is littered with good and bad advice and stuff-ups along the way, and that is how we improve and work out suitable processes or requirements for any given task or project..

I've been working with my hands in almost every field from electronics to ceramics for many decades, and I love it all now as much as when I first pulled a crappy old Sher drill from the neighbours hard rubbish pile and went berserk with it as a pre teen.

Woodworking in particular is one of the more rewarding pursuits because it allows a great deal of artistic flair with creating things.

I would say don't get disheartened and give up, just hold onto the things that makes sense or work, and delete those that don't. I see a lot of people who have retired with no hobby or activity to lean on, they usually keel over in short time. Hobbies like woodworking are not only good for practical and economical purposes, they are also good for the soul and the overall health and well being.

 

[woodferret]

I'm curious about the "square isn't good enough".  Do we need hyperdimensional cubes? 

Social media tends to focus on "I've got a tool/technique and I'm gonna do a project that showcases it".  If you need to step back, just focus on what I need/want to build, and then wing it.  You've probably already accumulated enough knowledge to not get bogged down in the simplest things.  You may be surprised on how fast/free-flowing you work when you're not concerned with someone on the interweb telling you that "you're doing it wrong".

Probably the only time I'd say you'd really want someone experienced over your shoulder at all times is structural work.  But you're not gonna get that info from social media anyways, so ignore that.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I'm curious about the "square isn't good enough".  Do we need hyperdimensional cubes? 

Reminds me of a post on the woodwork forum a while back where a bloke was complaining about the lack of precision with a new saw as it was sometimes 0.1mm off, apart from needing to get a grip on reality, it was explained wood can vary by orders of magnitude greater than that just with changes in heat and humidity!

This expectation of chasing perfection or anything is "simples" can be a never ending ride. I think the various home improvement shows have a lot to answer there, they show a supremely executed reno or build by the husband and wife team, done in a stupendously short time, but they don't show the hundreds of people in the background that actually make it happen while the husband and wife walk around the site for the obligatory photo shoots and video!

 

[rst]

Not to mention they do not show the work after 3-5 years.

 

[WillieIv]

In regards to the original post, I think Reed hits the nail on the head.  Human error in technique can be the culprit of many of our issues!  I was having issues with my TSO guide rail square and after a couple conversations with Hans at TSO, we deduced that it was a process issue on my end.  No product issue whatsoever.  I'm now getting great results and have much more confidence in the product. 

That being said, I can't say enough about TSO products and their support.  When I sent them an email over the weekend, Hans himself called me on Monday and worked thru my issue.  Tell me how many companies in our industry has their CEO handle product support?  Felt like I made a new friend and look forward to future TSO products.

I can pick up any tool, no matter how well calibrated, use it casually, and get poor results. I think one of the common misconceptions in woodworking, especially with the advent of YouTube, is that you can throw money at the problem and immediately get good results. Also, I think watching Marc Spagnuolo get out his 0.003" feeler gauge and complain about a table being off by that much makes a lot of people think they have to be machinists even though they're trying to build a cabinet.

All of that said, I get repeatably excellent results with my TSO rail square. I assume your Bench Dogs one should provide you with similar results, but I have no ability to speak to it. When I first got mine, it took me a little bit of intentional practice to make sure I could get repeatable results. I fully expect that to be the case with every tool I pick up. Woodworking is a craft, no matter how much money you throw at the tools.

noun
1.
an activity involving skill in making things by hand.
"the craft of bookbinding"

-r

 

[jeh]

I always square up plywood on one corner and base my cuts off the sides that make up that corner. The store edges though probably parallel are usually beat up and 1/4" of it has to be trimmed anyway. To easy from there to grab the giant square and square up one end before cutting the first pieces of a project.

 

[Packard]

I always square up plywood on one corner and base my cuts off the sides that make up that corner. The store edges though probably parallel are usually beat up and 1/4" of it has to be trimmed anyway. To easy from there to grab the giant square and square up one end before cutting the first pieces of a project.

I also trim the factory edge (usually), but I do it after making the cut.  I cut 1/2” oversized and then make the Final Cut to remove the factory edge.  Same amount of work, different sequence.

 

[rmwarren]

I always square up plywood on one corner and base my cuts off the sides that make up that corner. The store edges though probably parallel are usually beat up and 1/4" of it has to be trimmed anyway. To easy from there to grab the giant square and square up one end before cutting the first pieces of a project.

Ditto. A trick I use is putting a little piece of painter's tape at the square corner, so I don't lose track of it while processing multiple panels.

RMW

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Personally, I would rather buy rough and do it myself, but it's not always an option.

If I had a nickel for every video or tutorial that started with "first, we have to joint the edges" and included "now run it through the planer", I'd be able to retire tomorrow.  Or the guys who build full up mortise-and-tenon projects out of 2x4 studs, but only after gluing them into 8x8s and milling them down to 6x6s...

Online there's "all you need is a circular saw and a straight edge", "my local cabinet supplier off loaded the sheets directly into my garage for free", "you just need 3-phase to run a simple dust collection", "hashtag-hand tools for life", "dust will kill you", "noise will kill you", "PPE is underrated; hashtag-bunnysuit", "red aluminum is the best", "blue aluminum only", "factory accessories are the best", and "starting with rough lumber from your local sawmill", "square isn't good enough", "square is all in your mind, it's just wood"....... It's one of the things that continues to turn me off of trying to even bother getting better at or getting deeper into woodworking, aside from a lack of time.

Maybe it's just social media in general, but honestly, the resources for figuring out how to work out of a given sized space and with a given resource load are just too scattered and contradictory and lead to significant wasted time and money for a lot of people.  It keeps the tool builders, retailers, and secondary markets in business, though...

Agreed. Most of that stuff is way overblown. I just prefer rough lumber for the purpose of "options".
I would rather buy thicker stock. I have the ability to resaw, joint, plane etc.
S4S material that has been "around" getting beat up or warped because of bad storage practices, is a limiting factor too.
I'm also a bit of an anomaly in this. I work in a very well equipped cabinet shop, having access to industrial equipment, with the exception of a wide-belt sander. We had one before, but it was never replaced. On top of that, I have a rather extensive personal collection of Festool gear, that I use everyday.
I hesitate to use the word collection though, because I don't collect them as display items. Mine get used. I would venture to say that there are very few DF500s out there that have cut as many mortices as mine. The one I have now is only a little over 3 years old and has seen well over 5 thousand Dominos, twice as many slots.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I hesitate to use the word collection though, because I don't collect them as display items. Mine get used. I would venture to say that there are very few DF500s out there that have cut as many mortices as mine. The one I have now is only a little over 3 years old and has seen well over 5 thousand Dominos, twice as many slots.

That is super impressive! Any repairs to it over the years, or noticeable wear?

 

[Cheese]

I work in a very well equipped cabinet shop, having access to industrial equipment, with the exception of a wide-belt sander. We had one before, but it was never replaced.

I was shocked when I first read that...a cabinet shop without a Timesaver? But then I thought if the majority of the materials you use are veneered/laminated goods then you really don't need one.

There's a local cabinet shop I use and they allow customers to use their Timesaver for a $20 charge. I'll purchase the slabs from them, do any shaping, epoxy filling or secondary operations that are needed and then I'll bring the slab back and surface it on both sides for $20. Very  [cool]  and it really saves a lot of time & effort on my part. Well worth the 40 minute drive to and from the cabinet shop.

 

[Toolpig]

In regards to the original post, I think Reed hits the nail on the head.  Human error in technique can be the culprit of many of our issues!  I was having issues with my TSO guide rail square and after a couple conversations with Hans at TSO, we deduced that it was a process issue on my end.  No product issue whatsoever.  I'm now getting great results and have much more confidence in the product. 

That being said, I can't say enough about TSO products and their support.  When I sent them an email over the weekend, Hans himself called me on Monday and worked thru my issue.  Tell me how many companies in our industry has their CEO handle product support?  Felt like I made a new friend and look forward to future TSO products.

I can pick up any tool, no matter how well calibrated, use it casually, and get poor results. I think one of the common misconceptions in woodworking, especially with the advent of YouTube, is that you can throw money at the problem and immediately get good results. Also, I think watching Marc Spagnuolo get out his 0.003" feeler gauge and complain about a table being off by that much makes a lot of people think they have to be machinists even though they're trying to build a cabinet.

All of that said, I get repeatably excellent results with my TSO rail square. I assume your Bench Dogs one should provide you with similar results, but I have no ability to speak to it. When I first got mine, it took me a little bit of intentional practice to make sure I could get repeatable results. I fully expect that to be the case with every tool I pick up. Woodworking is a craft, no matter how much money you throw at the tools.

noun
1.
an activity involving skill in making things by hand.
"the craft of bookbinding"

-r

Agreed. Hans is terrific and so are TSO’s products. I have their guide rail square and it’s always dead nuts accurate with my TS55.

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