HAMMER A3 31 Jointer Planer Combo Machine

[bijeshj]

I assume I was the lucky one with my experience on pre-sales, delivery and support with Felder. I worked with Geoff in the Delaware office who was excellent to work with. I had an issue on the day of delivery - with the delivery company calling that their truck had broken down and they would have to reschedule. A quick call to the felder office - and they transferred to a smaller truck and I got it late - but on the same day.

Regarding depth - I think u need approx between 1 - 1.5 foot depending on if you are planning to leave the jointer fence on. of course my machine is 3 + years old - and is the older model.

 

[mattfc]

I assume I was the lucky one with my experience on pre-sales, delivery and support with Felder. I worked with Geoff in the Delaware office who was excellent to work with. I had an issue on the day of delivery - with the delivery company calling that their truck had broken down and they would have to reschedule. A quick call to the felder office - and they transferred to a smaller truck and I got it late - but on the same day.

Regarding depth - I think u need approx between 1 - 1.5 foot depending on if you are planning to leave the jointer fence on. of course my machine is 3 + years old - and is the older model.

The older model I think separated out the planner bed into two sections that swung at an angle and thus required more room behind.  The new model, though whilst technically in two parts are bolted together and move as one, just a straight forward 90 degree hinge so can be close to a wall. The main thing to mention is that if you have it close to a wall, you have to pull the fence all the way to the front, else the fence support (like a T.. so the I bit) sticks out and would scrape the wall

 

[Wonderwino]

My A3-41 arrived on Wednesday and I got it basically setup and wired last night.  I still have to check the settings to make sure it its all in line.  I can't believe how quiet the Silent Power cutter is!  [big grin]  I posted a picture on talkFestool.

 

[cbehnke]

the A3 31 JP and the FB510 bandsaw are unpacked, the electrician is scheduled for tuesday to install the new 220v outlets.  can't wait to get them up and running.[attachimg=#1]

 

[Nick C]

I picked up my new A3 31 at Felder's location in New Castle DE last Friday. The salesman--Geoff Doubet--walked me through setup and operation, using a machine they have in their showroom. Unloading in my garage and removing from the pallet was straightforward. Setup took a while because I got several options--extension tables, digital depth scale, and mortiser--all of which needed to be installed and adjusted. I have used it for a few hours now, and I'm very impressed. The "Silent Cutter Block" is indeed less noisy than my old Tersa-equipped machine, and it cuts very well. I'll try the mortiser next...

 

[Mavrik]

Oh no.
I wish I hadn't seen this thread.

 

[jonathan-m]

That's some sexy machinery right there!

 

[cgmojoco]

Has anyone had ANY problems with the actual performance of the A3 31 jointer/planer?

• Extension tables--Do you use them? What size do you use? Where do you use them?  If using large table extension on the jointer infeed or outfeed, do you have any problems with alignment when you apply pressure necessary for jointing?  Any problems with accuracy (snipe?) when using the extension tables?  If you are getting by with long pieces without using extension tables how and is the accuracy acceptable(snipe?)
  
• Switching back and forth between jointer/planer--Do you find any hindrances to your workflow having to switch back and forth? (I know sometimes I joint and plane and then realize I don't have enough wood and have to go back and form up some new wood...how easy is it to reproduce the settings?  Any workarounds for those hindrances?
• 
  Dust collection--What dust collector do you use with it?  Does it provide effective dust collection?
  
• 
  Mobility--What specific mobility do you have on it (Zambus or stock Felder)?  Does it work for you or are there any issues?
  
• 
  Quality/performance/ease of use--How are you getting along with the quality?  Does the eurostyle guard work for you?  Any snipe?
  

 

[bijeshj]

Has anyone had ANY problems with the actual performance of the A3 31 jointer/planer?

• Extension tables--Do you use them? What size do you use? Where do you use them?  If using large table extension on the jointer infeed or outfeed, do you have any problems with alignment when you apply pressure necessary for jointing?  Any problems with accuracy (snipe?) when using the extension tables?  If you are getting by with long pieces without using extension tables how and is the accuracy acceptable(snipe?)
  
• Switching back and forth between jointer/planer--Do you find any hindrances to your workflow having to switch back and forth? (I know sometimes I joint and plane and then realize I don't have enough wood and have to go back and form up some new wood...how easy is it to reproduce the settings?  Any workarounds for those hindrances?
• 
  Dust collection--What dust collector do you use with it?  Does it provide effective dust collection?
  
• 
  Mobility--What specific mobility do you have on it (Zambus or stock Felder)?  Does it work for you or are there any issues?
  
• 
  Quality/performance/ease of use--How are you getting along with the quality?  Does the eurostyle guard work for you?  Any snipe?
  

My machine is 3 years old - the previous model. But I believe they are similar in performance except for the silent cutter block.
I dont have the ext table from Felder - so cannot comment on the felder ones. I built my own and works well.
Changing back and forth really is the only hassle on a combo and I sometimes hit the issue of having to joint a piece when I am in the middle of planing. The digital depth scale helps for accurately coming back to the same dimension.
I have a JDS DC - works ok. I may have to tweak my DC fittings or maybe go to a cyclone or a RL200
Use the Felder mobility - works very well. I have them on the K3 as well.
Considering I had no jointer and a Ridgid planer. These machines are amazing - in all respects. Performance, quality etc etc.

 

[wascallyrabbit]

Has anyone had ANY problems with the actual performance of the A3 31 jointer/planer?

• Extension tables--Do you use them? What size do you use? Where do you use them?  If using large table extension on the jointer infeed or outfeed, do you have any problems with alignment when you apply pressure necessary for jointing?  Any problems with accuracy (snipe?) when using the extension tables?  If you are getting by with long pieces without using extension tables how and is the accuracy acceptable(snipe?)
  
• Switching back and forth between jointer/planer--Do you find any hindrances to your workflow having to switch back and forth? (I know sometimes I joint and plane and then realize I don't have enough wood and have to go back and form up some new wood...how easy is it to reproduce the settings?  Any workarounds for those hindrances?
• 
  Dust collection--What dust collector do you use with it?  Does it provide effective dust collection?
  
• 
  Mobility--What specific mobility do you have on it (Zambus or stock Felder)?  Does it work for you or are there any issues?
  
• 
  Quality/performance/ease of use--How are you getting along with the quality?  Does the eurostyle guard work for you?  Any snipe?
  

extension table - yes, the small one (thinks its 400mm), mainly used on the planer out feed.  i can move it to the in feed side of the jointer if needed.  it has not caused any snipe issues using it on the planer or in feed of the jointer.  i can joint boards up to ~8' without the need for the extension.

switching between jointer and planer is not difficult.  you do need to do a little advanced planning to minimize the changing back and forth.  i.e.. joint the wood for the entire project then change over to planning. be sure to make some extra just incase.  the setting are easily repeatable in the event you need to make some more.  the digital readout hand wheel is an option that you should get.

i use a clearvue cyclone for dust collection which proves to be a effective dust collector.

for mobility kit i use the zambus casters.  be aware that the caster raise the machine up ~3".  i felt the casters were a better fit for me because of the unevenness of the garage floor.  the zambus have the ability to level out the machine were the felder kit does not.  if my floor was level i wouldn't need anything as i don't really move my machines around.

i find the a3-31 quite easy to use, i have the three blade cutter head and find that it performs quite well.  i use a lot of tiger maple and a fair amount of exotics and have minimal tear out, i don't experience any snipe. 

the a3-31 is the first jointer and planer i have owned. i have not ever owned a lunch box planer or a jointer before.  mine is the older model with the two separate tables that lift independently.

 

[HowardH]

I concur with the others.  Switching back and forth isn't too much trouble.  My only comment on that is I make sure I do all my face and edge jointing first before switching over to the planer.  You have to make sure the planer table is about 5.5" below the top for the jointer tables to clear.  I use a 1.5 hp Jet Dust  Devil DC.  It has no problem keeping the machine clear.  It doesn't pick up 100% with planing, there is always something left behind.  It will fill up a bag fast!  With 4 hp on tap, it can hog off a lot in a hurry.  I use the stock mobility kit.  I don't move it too much but it's not to difficult to move around despite it's weight.  I love the euro guard over the pork chop.  It's a lot safer.  I do use a couple of push blocks most of the time to keep the material moving.  I would also highly suggest getting a bottle or two of supergleit.  It will really help reduce friction.  Compared to my old Dewalt 735, the Hammer is very quiet.  I'm sure my neighbors are much happier.  We are moving across town in about 3 weeks.  It should be interesting to see how the movers handle this and my K3.  I will be there to supervise, that's for sure.

 

[cbehnke]

Has anyone had ANY problems with the actual performance of the A3 31 jointer/planer?

• Extension tables--Do you use them? What size do you use? Where do you use them?  If using large table extension on the jointer infeed or outfeed, do you have any problems with alignment when you apply pressure necessary for jointing?  Any problems with accuracy (snipe?) when using the extension tables?  If you are getting by with long pieces without using extension tables how and is the accuracy acceptable(snipe?)
  
• Switching back and forth between jointer/planer--Do you find any hindrances to your workflow having to switch back and forth? (I know sometimes I joint and plane and then realize I don't have enough wood and have to go back and form up some new wood...how easy is it to reproduce the settings?  Any workarounds for those hindrances?
• 
  Dust collection--What dust collector do you use with it?  Does it provide effective dust collection?
  
• 
  Mobility--What specific mobility do you have on it (Zambus or stock Felder)?  Does it work for you or are there any issues?
  
• 
  Quality/performance/ease of use--How are you getting along with the quality?  Does the eurostyle guard work for you?  Any snipe?
  

Performance has been everything I expected (excellent) and more.  What I expected was to have a machine that was built with quality, precision repeatability in mind.  Once you have the machine dialed in, it just simply works (and does it extremely well), and that is the biggest selling point for me.  My prior jointer was inexpensive and required re-dialing in and extensive setup, and it was jury-rigged for co-planar.  It was not a joy to use.  The A3-31 jointer table came dead flat and coplanar and opens and closes back to dead-on...over and over.  The fence remains at 90 degrees vertical (i check each time i edge joint).  The planer height micro-dial is spot on.  The materials used and the level of fit, finish, precision are superior to the Taiwan made machines I looked at.  

I don't use the extension tables.  Haven't needed them yet.  Most stock i run through is less than 2 feet long.  I will need to run longer stock next year for a large project.  I may get the extensions then.

Switching between J and P is (for me) a 10 second operation.  I plan my workflow so that I face and edge joint a lot of wood, then switch to the planer.  Repeatability is astounding.  I can reproduce a prior setting to a tenth of a mm because I have the digital handwheel to set the planer table.  I HIGHLY recommend that feature.  Yes, at times I need to go back and forth between the J and P mode, but it isn't a deal breaker.  

I have a Penn State Industries 3.5HP Tempest cyclone dust collector.  It works great.  Not every single chip is collected in planer mode, there is a small handful that wind up on the planer bed.  Not an issue.

I have the Felder mobility kit, there are no issues for me because 99% of the time I am just moving the machine forward and backward, so the felder kit works perfect for me.

Quality and performance for me (hobby woodworker) are fantastic.  Looking back at the extra money the Hammer cost vs a Jet or Grizzly JP, I am extremely happy with the trade off, I would buy the machine again, and I highly recommend it if the budget works.   No knocks on Jet or Grizzly, they make good machines.

I really like the euro style jointer guard.  I prefer it to the pork chop swing away style.

I had some snipe when I first got the machine.  Adjusted the rollers and now have virtually none.

p.s.  I have the silent power cutterblock and I really like how it handles figured woods.  it's not tear-out free, but it reduces tear-out vs my old jointer and planer (ridgid jointer, dewalt planer) by probably 95%.  I still get some, but it's so much less of an issue now.

here is the current set up, you can see the Hammer JP and the dust collection.

All of the above is just my opinion, i'm not a professional woodworker, just a hobby guy.  What I write is just based on my experience and I try to give my forthright thoughts and opinions without unwarranted or undeserved hype/praise.

Best of luck with your decision.

 

[SittingElf]

Yup... Getting EXCITED!! [eek]

My A3 41 with Silent Partner, digi wheel and mobility kit is scheduled for delivery the first week of December.  Can't wait, and it will be an early XMAS present to myself during the two weeks I'm at home in the USA during that period.

Now I just need to sell the Grizzly GO490 8" jointer and Delta 12" planer soon to make room in my shop!

Gotta find some 16" lumber!! [big grin]

 

[cgmojoco]

Thank you all very much for the advice and feedback!  Wonderful to augment Festools with a nice stationary machine like this for shop work and appreciate the mindshare here.

I can't seem to get over concerns on how the alignment of the joiner works and will go to the general net to continue to research, the sales reps can demo when I visit them soon too.

I know that adjusting joiner takes some effort typically, and am so worried that the adjustments won't be there if things get out of alignment (these aren't parallelagram) over time from opening closing...

Also a bit concerned about combo space saving vs. workflow of joining proper face (Concave down), planing other face parallel, THEN joining the proper edge (with the grain) before ripping.  Joining a face then edge right after, doesn't always make sense with regards to grain direction and concave/twisting faces combinations working in your favor...

Last minute concerns (besides finding money in my wallet! )

Christopher

 

[John H]

Christopher - if your still researching, don't over look the MiniMax FS30 Classic
http://www.minimax-usa.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=4&Itemid=35

I don't think MiniMax is marketed as well as Hammer but they are  every bit as good if not better...

Fine WoodWorking did a reviews on Jointer/Planers in 2007 (issue 190) and at that point they rated the MiniMax "Best Overall" and the A3-31 as the "Best Value".  (The review was over 7 years ago, so take that with a grain of salt)

Also a lot of the MiniMax products are actually stocked in the U.S. - so there is no waiting for your "ship to come in"

 

[cbehnke]

Christopher - if your still researching, don't over look the MiniMax FS30 Classic
http://www.minimax-usa.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=4&Itemid=35

I don't think MiniMax is marketed as well as Hammer but they are  every bit as good if not better...

Also a lot of the MiniMax products are actually stocked in the U.S. - so there is no waiting for your "ship to come in"

I second what he says. The Hammer A3-31 is a great J/P combo machine, but I was able to use a Minimax J/P combo and it was, in my humble and noob opinion, a more robust machine more suited for an industrial application/setting.  I'm a hobby guy so it was a bit of overpurchase for me.  Since I was getting multiple products, I wanted to deal with one vendor and wanted certain add-ons to be useful for both machines (mobility kit, table extensions, etc).  And, I wanted to get a spiral/segmented cutterhead.  Given all that, the Hammer/Felder package (J/P w/segmented cutterhead and a 20 inch Bandsaw, the FB510) worked for me personally and came in at slightly less than the Minimax package (FS30 w/ Tersa straight knives and a 16 inch bandsaw, the MM16).

As far as the waiting thing.  I found that some Hammer/Felder products are available to ship immediately and some are a short wait and others a long wait....it's hit and miss.  And when I was planning to buy, there was a 1 month wait on the Minimax FS30 JP also.

Agree, Minimax marketing is less developed compared to Felder/Hammer.  But hey, it's better than Agazzanni.  Marketing shouldn't stop anyone from buying a brand,...unless you think it is a proxy for aftermarket service or staying power of the brand, which I don't think is the case with Minimax.

As far as the settings and getting them set right between switching operations and staying coplanar....I wouldn't worry about that very much.  The european manufacturers have been doing combo machines for a long time and they have those bugs worked out extremely well.  That should not stop you one bit from a combo.  What would stop me from a combo is if I was a production/professional shop and needed to constantly switch (slowed production) in the face of deadlines, if multiple people will need the machines at the same time, etc.  Stuff like that would lead me to separate machines.

you are 100% correct Christopher,...it would be best to see and feel the machines first hand.  I think that will be the absolute best way to make the right decision for your specific needs. 

 

[cbehnke]

Yup... Getting EXCITED!! [eek]

My A3 41 with Silent Partner, digi wheel and mobility kit is scheduled for delivery the first week of December.  Can't wait, and it will be an early XMAS present to myself during the two weeks I'm at home in the USA during that period.

Now I just need to sell the Grizzly GO490 8" jointer and Delta 12" planer soon to make room in my shop!

Gotta find some 16" lumber!! [big grin]

you got the A3-41,...sure, throw that in my face  [big grin].  I'm jealous and I demand a picture of that baby in the shop. [drooling]

 

[cgmojoco]

Christopher - if your still researching, don't over look the MiniMax FS30 Classic
http://www.minimax-usa.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=4&Itemid=35

I don't think MiniMax is marketed as well as Hammer but they are  every bit as good if not better...

Fine WoodWorking did a reviews on Jointer/Planers in 2007 (issue 190) and at that point they rated the MiniMax "Best Overall" and the A3-31 as the "Best Value".  (The review was over 7 years ago, so take that with a grain of salt)

Also a lot of the MiniMax products are actually stocked in the U.S. - so there is no waiting for your "ship to come in"

Thanks for that!\
Yes I had also been considering Minimax and they weren't priced competitively (new).
Until...I considered purchasing used.
Found a Minimax 16" FS41 for $3500 from a "serious hobbyist but not production owner" that is about 6 years old.
I'm hoping that is a good deal because I'm about to pick it up!
Now I have to figure out how to transport these things or hire a rigger...

Christopher

 

[stvrowe]

Thanks for that!\
Yes I had also been considering Minimax and they weren't priced competitively (new).
Until...I considered purchasing used.
Found a Minimax 16" FS41 for $3500 from a "serious hobbyist but not production owner" that is about 6 years old.
I'm hoping that is a good deal because I'm about to pick it up!
Now I have to figure out how to transport these things or hire a rigger...

Christopher

I think you got a very good deal depending on condition.  A tilt bed trailer, pallet jack, and comealong are useful when transporting yourself.  You will not find the mobility kits useful when getting it into a trailer.  Riggers are even a better option.

This is a review and comparison between the MM and Felder J/Ps that I had posted on the MiniMax Users Group several years ago and I ended up purchasing the AD741 included in this review.  I had intended on using them both for a while and then selling one of them.  It is now 3 years later and I still can't decide which I like better and my review observations from then haven't changed a bit.

I have a FS41 Elite-S 3 phase model. I previously owned a Felder CF741SP combo
machine and have used a Felder AD741 J/P which is comparable to the FS41. Based
on my experience with these machines I offer the following observations. To me,
pros and cons are comparative terms so I will compare the machine features and
what I like/dislike about them. This is long so bear with me. Overall, if I
could take the best features from each machine and put them into one, I would
have the perfect J/P.
1) Both machines perform very well, indistinguishable differences in actual
performance between the two. Cost is about the same - at least when I purchased
several years ago. I did have a problem with the main power switch on the MM as
the machine kept tripping on thermal overloads during operation (it did so
randomly with no relationship to th e load the machine was under). MM did
provide a replacement power switch under warranty.
2) I like the Tersa cutterhead better than the Felder. Much faster knive
changes and you can go with carbide knives on the Minimax. Cost of the Tersa
knives is slightly higher than the Felder knives.
3) The MM table is longer than the Felder but I really can't say this has made
any difference in performance.
4) The MM fence is center mount and the Felder is mounted from a bar at the
front of the infeed table. There are pros and cons to each system IMHO. When
converting to planer mode, you have to move the fence all the way to the
operator side with the MM wheras the Felder has to move a little less than half
way across the table. The center supported fence seems slightly more rigid IMO.
The MM includes an auxilary fence that swings down giving a shorter fence height
- which I have never used.
5) Infeed table adjustment readings is visible from the top on the Felder and on
the side for the MM. The Felder has the edge from a user interface and
visibility standpoint on this.
6) The jointer guard on the Felder is much superior to the MM. I have both the
pork chop guard and the Euro-guard for the MM. The pork chop never functioned
satisfactorily and wouldn't swing back to completely cover the cutterhead
without manually pushing it. This guard is a major disappointment. The
Euroguard on the MM is better but not a whole lot. The knobs are too small and
are hard to turn to adjust. I replaced the knobs with some from J.W. Winco and
it improved but overall, this setup doesn't even come close to the Felder guard
IMHO.
7) The table latch on the MM is a single lever which is very nice. The Felder
has two cam type latches one for the infeed and the other for the outfeed table.
The MM has the edge on this feature.
8. The feed roller engagement lever on the MM is more convenient and easier to
operate than the Felder.
9) With respect to the dust collection hood, this is also a mixed bag.
Honestly, the Felder does a better job at dust collection. The MM is nice
because you can fix the dust collection connection on one side of the machine
where on the Felder, you flip the hood over. This means you need a longer hose
with the Felder. To go back to jointer mode, on the MM, you only need to lower
the table 4 inches, with the Felder, it is 7 inches.
10) The planer tables are about the same size between the two machines but with
the Felder, you can add an outfeed table to their F channel. The MM doesn't
have a built in feature but there are aftermarket items you can add to obtain
this feature.
11) With the MM, the mobility kit is included. With the Felder, it is optional.
The Felder mobility kit is nicer IMO but, that comes at extra cost.
12) Comparing the power drive options between the two machines, the MM has high
and low speed movement of the planer table in both directions. They are
incorporated into the same switch, you just hold the button for a few seconds
and it shifts to fast speed. The Felder has high speed in both directions but
slow speed in only the raise direction.
13)The digital display on the MM has two digits to the right of the decimal
while the Felder has 3. The Felder display can be switched between Imperial and
Metric. I haven't tried to do this on the MM. If I recall correctly, the
single phase machine you are looking at doesn't have the electronic digital
display but has a counter for measurement.
14)Both machines can accept a mortise attachment. The MM mounts on the back of
the machine whereas the Felder mounts on the front. A reversing switch is
included with the Felder so that you can use right hand mortise bits. A
start/stop switch is included on the back of the MM for mortise opertion.

Setup was never an issue and it keeps its settings.
Hope this helps,

 

[John H]

Pricing:
    Hammer A3-31 "PROMO Price"  --> is $3,596 (plus tax and shipping)
    MiniMax FS30 Classic                --> is $3,995 (plus tax and shipping)

The MiniMax comes standard with the Tersa Cutterhead.  The Hammer offers the Spiral Cutterhead as a $799 option.  Both cutterheads have their pros and cons so it basically boils down to your personal preference.  But if you add the spiral cutterhead to the Hammer, you are now $400 more than the MiniMax

Regarding the digital handwheel that Hammer offers for $195 - consider this remote planer readout from Wixey for $70
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0054RJ7AS/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have read that the Hammer requires the planer table to be fully lowered to use the jointer, while the MiniMax only has to go down halfway  (4" instead of 8")  thats a lot more cranking on the wheel

MiniMax offers a 'euroguard' option instead of the American style 'porkchop' guard for around $190

ps - I was recently looking to buy a jointer/planer and ended up with a combination machine (MiniMax LAB300).  I don't want to dedicate my garage to a 'woodshop' since I have other interests and I felt the LAB300 would fit in nicely.  I put a lot of research into the decision -  Another factor was the customer service from MiniMax.  Their rep had no problems emailing me back late at night or on the weekends while the Hammer rep either ignored my questions or took several days to answer them.  I finally decided if I was having trouble getting info before the sale, I can't imagine how the after sale would go if I had problems - and this would be the guy I would have to deal with...

Again, I think Hammer is better marketed and I originally intended to buy one of their products, but my due diligence revealed the benefits of MiniMax and for me it was a better fit