Hand plane 101

[ear3]

After seeing how useful just a block plane was on the cabinet I have been building, and having become more comfortable/confident with sharpening blades now that I have the MKii honing guide and a decent set of stones, I'm looking into expanding my use of hand planes.  I realize this isn't a hand tool forum, but there are folks on here with plenty of experience in this area, so I thought I'd post a hand plane 101 question.

I don't know yet if I'm going to go all in at once (like getting one of the three or five plane sets from woodriver, lie nielsen or the like), but right now I'm thinking I'm going to take it one step at a time, and just get a single plane.  From what I' know (which is little when it comes to hand tools), it seems like a jack plane is a good all around "starter" plane.

I'm looking for something that will perform multiple operations.  In the main: occasionally roughing out of small boards that can't be handled on the planer, smoothing the saw marks out of a board edge, and creating bevels in pieces that would be difficult to do with power tools.  As an example of the latter, I'm planning on recreating an Arts and Crafts lamp we have at home, where the base has a beveled edge like you can see in the picture:

The actual one we have has a larger bevel/base that actually extends beyond the capacity of my table saw, which is why I'm thinking the hand plane would be a good option.  I would also note the recent video made by [member=47215]woodman_412[/member] about the beveled Carvex base where he executed it with a handplane -- this would be another example of a task I would want my plane to perform:http://festoolownersgroup.com/vario...pics/dp-shop-talk-videos/msg457628/#msg457628

So a couple of specific questions:

Is the jack plane a good all-around plane for someone in my position?

What's up with all the different options (low-angle, bevel up), and which one is better?

Are Lie Nielsen planes really that much better than the others in terms of their performance, such that their cost is justified (I don't care about aesthetics)?  If not, what's a good, more cost-conscious brand?

What different blades should I get to perform the different operations the plane can do (roughing out vs. smoothing)?

My apologies for all the basic questions -- any advice and knowledge shared is appreciated.

 

[woodman_412]

The first plane I got was a #4 1/2 smooth plane followed by a block plane, both of which were Lie-Nielsen.  I was doing a lot of furniture at the time and a smooth plane was best suited to the kind of work I was doing.  It sounds like you're looking for more of a general purpose plane to go with your block plane in which case I think you are right that a jack plane would be a good fit.  To do any sort of jointing or flattening operations you need something with a bit of length to it and a jack plane works well for that while not being so big that you can't use it for smoothing.  I have both Lie-Nielsen and Veritas planes and I do find that the looks of the Lie-Nielsen planes are a bit nicer but you said you don't care about that so I would recommend Veritas.  I have the Veritas low angle jack plane and I really like it.  A very versatile plane for sure.  It's a bevel up plane which means you can get blades with different bevel angles on them which changes the cutting characteristics of the plane.  An example would be for planing end grain you can use a low angle blade to slice through more easily and if you're working with figured wood and planing the edge or face you can use a high angle blade for more of a shearing action.  If you get a traditional bevel down plane you are stuck with the angle of the frog since the bevel on the blade doesn't come into play.  So to sum up if I was in your position I would go with the Veritas low angle jack and pick up a higher angle blade to go with it.  Hope that helps.

 

[nclemmons]

I'd recommend you Pick up a copy of Garrett Hacks Handplane book. 

My favorite plane is a Lie Nielsen #62 after spending a week with Garrett at Marc Adams school last summer.  That and a low angle block plane will do a lot of work for you.

They offer several blades.  I'd get a standard blade and a smoother and  sharpen the smoother with a very slight camber for wide board flattening.  I have several other planes but find I grab the #62 a lot for its versatility.

 

[AndyUK]

Over the years I've acquired older second hand Stanley bevel down Bench planes (no.4, no.5 and no.6).
The only new plane I bought was a Stanley low angle block plane around 10 years ago.
If you are looking to buy new then Lie Nielson, Veritas and Clifton are the one's leading from the front.
In most cases I tend to only use the no.4 and no.6 and find I use the no.5 jack plane very little.
If you do not have a dedicated scrub plane then it's not a bad idea to have 2 plane irons for the no.4, one of them being heavily cambered for use with the plane with the mouth fully opened for rough or heavy spot stock removal.
The other iron can be finely honed for smoothing purposes with the plane mouth set narrow.
I find the no.6 (fore plane) excellent for edge jointing when used in conjunction with the no.4.
Firstly I knock off any high spots with the no.4 then use the no.6 to leave the edge flat and true and ready for jointing, verified by using an engineers square.
This leaves a good finish but if you wanted to go further with the edges of the boards that will be seen you can then set the no.4 for smoothing and by removing minimal amounts achieve a glass smooth finish.
I find the no.4 and no.6 a perfect combination.

 

[ear3]

Thanks for the replies thus far.  That was a helpful explanation on the difference between bevel up and bevel down planes [member=47215]woodman_412[/member] -- it sounds like the bevel up will give me more flexibility, which is what I'm looking for at this point.

 

[jbasen]

I have a number of different Lie Nielsen planes and one or 2 Veritas.  From what I've seen there is a considerable difference int he quality of workmanship between those 2 brands and what you will find on the market today that is typically made in India or China.  With Lie Nielsen and Veritas you are going to be able to pull the plane out of the box and start using it right away.  With cheaper planes you are going to need to spend a bunch of time tuning the plane before it will produce even reasonable results.  For example you probably won't find that the bottom of the plane is even flat.  You may also be frustrated with how well the blade even locks in place which is going to significantly impact the quality of your work.

If you want to save some money and are willing to invest some time in tuning/restoring a plane I would recommend going to antique shows and look for some old Stanley planes to purchase.  Once you invest the time to get the plane tuned up you will have a high quality tool.  You can also find old Stanley planes on eBay though it is obviously much harder to tell the condition of the plane before you purchase it.

Back in the days when I had an inexpensive Craftsman table saw and before I used Festool tools I found I needed my hand planes much more than I do today.  With my Sawstop cabinet saw and Festool tools the quality of my cuts and the fit and finish of my work has gone up so much that I don't need to reach for planes as much as I did in the past.  The planes I use the most are my block plane, a shoulder plane for fitting mortise and tenon joints, and a chisel plane for trimming plugs.

Hope this helps

 

[ear3]

Hope this helps

Yes, thanks [member=18233]jbasen[/member].  Just a further question, though, for you or anyone.  I understand the technical differences between the 01, A2 and PM-V11 steel.  As I feel pretty comfortable with my sharpening skills at this point, and the DMT stones I have make quick work of it, it seems like the choice of PM-V11 should be a no brainer then, since they hold an edge longer.  Am I basically correct, or are there caveats to the PM-V11 steel other than the longer sharpening time?

 

[GhostFist]

A jack is a perfect all rounder. I recommend picking up"The Anarchist's Tool Chest" a great read with lots of info on hand tools

 

[HarveyWildes]

In order of the amount of use they get in my shop, here is my list:
* Lie Nielsen apron plane
* Lie Nielsen low angle block plane
* Lee Valley medium shoulder plane
* Lie Nielsen low angle, bevel up smoothing plane

Early on I got quite a few Lie Nielsen planes, and I like them all very much.
Lately I've been buying Lee Valley planes, primarily for the PMV-11 blades.  However, I find that they are just as delightful to use as the Lie Nielsen planes, and in some cases have a few design advantages.

I think that PMV-11 is the best steel out there for western style tools.  There are some better Japanese steels out there, but I find Japanese planes touchy to tune and adjust properly.  I haven't measured it, but subjectively I'd say that PMV-11 holds an edge 2-3 times longer than A1 and sharpens nicely, but I don't do enough woodworking to really gauge sharpening frequency.  Certainly my Lee Valley PMV-11 chisels hold an edge longer than the Lie Nielsen A1 set that I have, and much longer than my Sorbys (although I do love the octagonal handles on the Sorbys).

I'd also recommend Garret Hack's book.  The best plane in the world will do crappy work if it's not tuned, sharpened, and adjusted properly.  Hack's book is where I learned the techniques.

 

[Holmz]

That Swiss plane (rali) is potentially worth a look.

 

[rustym]

My most used plane next to my Lie-Nielson 60 1/2 block plane is the Veritas Low Angle Jack.  Very nice plane, very much like the Lie-Nielson 62.  It is also a very good "shooting plane".

Rusty

 

[tiralie]

Unless you have experience with a hand plane it's difficult to understand what is good for you. In this case it's always good if you can buy the best on the market and go from there. If you really don't like it, then you can sell it.

I have a LN 62 that I use for jointing, flattening and shooting using the hot dog. The adjustable mouth makes cross grain cuts really clean. Great plane. I have not used the Vertias Jack plane but I am told it is very good.

Buy several blades and a blade holder and sharpen one with a camber so the corners don't dig in for aggressive flattening of boards.

I could care less what steel I use as long as it's good. All blades need to be sharpened some more some less. The harder the steel the longer it takes to sharpen.

Without a lot of experience buying old tools I would stay away from the used market. You can end up with some very poor or abused tools that are frankly not worth the trouble.

The German style planes like the Rali have a different hand position than the English style Stanley's that the LN's are modeled after. I really like my Rali, but it took a bit of use to get used to the hand position.

A jack is a perfect all rounder. I recommend picking up"The Anarchist's Tool Chest" a great read with lots of info on hand tools

Agreed, great book. Don't do anything he says  [big grin].
Tim

 

[deepcreek]

One great thing about Lie Nielsen is their customer service.  They guarantee their planes for life and are well known for replacing user damaged parts at no charge.  They will also have an expert spend time with you on the phone if you have questions on proper use or adjustment or even choosing which plane is right for you.

I started with the LN 60-1/2 low angle block and have since added a LN 62 jack as well as a LN chisel plane.  They all serve me well in a furniture shop that relies more heavily on power tools than hand tools.

 

[ear3]

I've been looking at various reviews online comparing the Lie Nielsen and the Veritas bevel up jack planes, and based on some of the comments it seems like there was a time when the Lie Nielsen was more expensive, but that's not the case now (245 for LN vs. 279 for Veritas).  Maybe this was an effect of currency exchange rates, given that Veritas is Canadian?  Though my understanding is that the dollar is currently very strong against the Canadian dollar, so I'm not sure why the Veritas would now be more expensive.

 

[danbox]

All my hand planes lie Nielsen, and I have a lot. which is a shame as I'm from the UK, but unfortunately Stanley are not what they used to be. They are very good and well worth the money, if you look after them properly they will be good enough to last a few life times.

If you are going to buy some vintage planes to refurbish take a piece of plate glass with you, lay the plane flat on the glass and try to slide a piece of Paper under each corner, if it slides under any corner just discard it and move on, it will be to much work to try and get the sole flat. It doesn't matter if the base is concave as this will not effect the performance of the plane but the edges must be flat. If it's cheap you could buy it for the hardware.

The low angle jack plane is most commonly for end grain if this wasn't mentioned above.

 

[ear3]

Thanks for the tip [member=59697]danbox[/member] Every summer my wife and I go to visit her Aunt in Maine, and in the area there are numerous antique stores with scores of old planes for dirt cheap.  I'll remember to bring this testing gear with me when we go this August.

All my hand planes lie Nielsen, and I have a lot. which is a shame as I'm from the UK, but unfortunately Stanley are not what they used to be. They are very good and well worth the money, if you look after them properly they will be good enough to last a few life times.

If you are going to buy some vintage planes to refurbish take a piece of plate glass with you, lay the plane flat on the glass and try to slide a piece of Paper under each corner, if it slides under any corner just discard it and move on, it will be to much work to try and get the sole flat. It doesn't matter if the base is concave as this will not effect the performance of the plane but the edges must be flat. If it's cheap you could buy it for the hardware.

The low angle jack plane is most commonly for end grain if this wasn't mentioned above.

 

[deepcreek]

Another nice thing about LN planes is they really hold their value and are easy to re-sell.

That's good peace of mind in case circumstances change.

 

[demographic]

If I was buying a Jack it would be a 5 1/2 as personally I find the 5 too narrow.
Same thing with the 4s too narrow.
The 4 1/2 is a better smoother than the 4 as I much prefer the extra width.

Might be worth having a spare blade with back bevel on it to give it some high angle varying grain ability.

 

[ear3]

I was planning on purchasing the toothed blade at least to do scrub work, but yes, it might be worth it to get an extra blade with a higher bevel.

Man, I've really gone down the rabbit hole today reading up on the subtle differences between LV and LN jack planes.  Fortunately, it looks like there's no way I can make the wrong choice when it comes to these two.

If I was buying a Jack it would be a 5 1/2 as personally I find the 5 too narrow.
Same thing with the 4s too narrow.
The 4 1/2 is a better smoother than the 4 as I much prefer the extra width.

Might be worth having a spare blade with back bevel on it to give it some high angle varying grain ability.

 

[AndyUK]

All my hand planes lie Nielsen, and I have a lot. which is a shame as I'm from the UK, but unfortunately Stanley are not what they used to be. They are very good and well worth the money, if you look after them properly they will be good enough to last a few life times.

If you are going to buy some vintage planes to refurbish take a piece of plate glass with you, lay the plane flat on the glass and try to slide a piece of Paper under each corner, if it slides under any corner just discard it and move on, it will be to much work to try and get the sole flat. It doesn't matter if the base is concave as this will not effect the performance of the plane but the edges must be flat. If it's cheap you could buy it for the hardware.

The low angle jack plane is most commonly for end grain if this wasn't mentioned above.

Wouldn't it be easier just to use a steel rule and look up to the light for checking flatness of the sole?