Help - Definitely Not A Woodworker But Need a Sander :) ... SEEKING ADVICE

[Babyduck]

I have no real worthwhile experience with woodworking but I have a current project that needs my attention, see below, and dreams of someday having the time to do something fun when I have some free time.  Hence I need a Festool.

I have a 30 foot IPE wooden bench with raised pillers on either side that houses my pool's solar cover when not in use.  It has IPE oil on it which needs to be reapplied every year.  The wood does need to be sanded prior to application.  I am thinking I only need a finishing sander and my thoughts were between the DTS 400 REQ Plus and the RTS 400 REQ Plus. 

I am a girl so I don't want anything too big and heavy - and since I am a complete newbie - I don't want anything that has so much power, or so many settings I inadvertantly make a huge mess and do damage.  I was leaning towards the DTS 400 as the bench has some inside edges so I thought this might be better to get into those spots.  Although I did think the RTS, having more surface area, should be a consideration.

I did look at the Multi Mode Rotex RO 90 DX FEQ Plus after reading some individuals thoughts on the matter, as it has the delta option to get into those inside corners - but thinking - it may be too easy to make a big mess of things first off - and perhaps it is a little too cumbersome for a newbie.  Also not sure my IPE bench - which is all pretty much linear - whether a round/delta head is the way to go.

Next newbie question ..... what grit sand paper would be best to just lightly give it a quick sand to remove the rough fibers in order to have a smooth finish to oil and no one gets a sliver.  Should I have a range and if so which ones?

Any other attachments/papers/abrasives/nets/cushions etc I should order along with??  I did notice some individuals saying one can use rectangle cushion pads - cut into a delta shape in order to use the DTS on rounded edges etc ....

I do appreciate the help and advice.  Photo attached of my project.  Thanks kindly  [smile]

 

[woodferret]

You're not taking off much, so I'd say a DTS/RTS class.... but I'd consider the ETS125 instead.  Round is fine.  You'll need to break out a sponge or manual paper for the corners, but again you're not taking off much and you're not paid by an hourly wage.  The round ETS actually makes it easier to balance and feather your sanding across a large flat, and the bumper is useful to keep you from digging into the raised sides.  Festool sells (or used to sell) a finger sander, but you can grab some cheap micro detail sanders to get that tiny bit of corner.

Most exterior oils look for 120gr.  With maybe a light sand by hand between coats.  Check the application instructions.  There are some weird outliers like General Finishes 450 which recommends an insane 220gr, with 320-400 between coats.  But that's a poly candy-coat.  A lot of varnish type coatings are like that.... but for oils, they tend to stay low.

 

[Cheese]

I have no real worthwhile experience with woodworking but I have a current project that needs my attention, see below, and dreams of someday having the time to do something fun when I have some free time.  Hence I need a Festool.

I have a 30 foot IPE wooden bench with raised pillers on either side that houses my pool's solar cover when not in use.  It has IPE oil on it which needs to be reapplied every year.  The wood does need to be sanded prior to application.  I am thinking I only need a finishing sander and my thoughts were between the DTS 400 REQ Plus and the RTS 400 REQ Plus. 

I am a girl so I don't want anything too big and heavy - and since I am a complete newbie - I don't want anything that has so much power, or so many settings I inadvertantly make a huge mess and do damage.  I was leaning towards the DTS 400 as the bench has some inside edges so I thought this might be better to get into those spots.  Although I did think the RTS, having more surface area, should be a consideration.

I did look at the Multi Mode Rotex RO 90 DX FEQ Plus after reading some individuals thoughts on the matter, as it has the delta option to get into those inside corners - but thinking - it may be too easy to make a big mess of things first off - and perhaps it is a little too cumbersome for a newbie.  Also not sure my IPE bench - which is all pretty much linear - whether a round/delta head is the way to go.

Next newbie question ..... what grit sand paper would be best to just lightly give it a quick sand to remove the rough fibers in order to have a smooth finish to oil and no one gets a sliver.  Should I have a range and if so which ones?

Any other attachments/papers/abrasives/nets/cushions etc I should order along with??  I did notice some individuals saying one can use rectangle cushion pads - cut into a delta shape in order to use the DTS on rounded edges etc ....

I do appreciate the help and advice.  Photo attached of my project.  Thanks kindly  [smile]

First off, that's a beautiful bench and doing anything than a stellar refinishing job would be an insult to the bench.  [smile]

For 31 feet of horizontal surface and 62 feet of vertical surface...a light sander would be an advantage. I thought about a bunch of alternative sanders but it seems the ETS EC 150/3 would be your best choice. You just really want to give the surface a "kiss and a promise" and to avoid any serious sanding sessions. I'd error on the side of coating and sanding more often than coating and sanding less often because if that entire bench needs to be brought to bare wood, that will be a task you'll not soon forget.

For the corners, you will need to either purchase a DTS 400 or hand sand.

For grits, I'd start with 240 and see how that goes. If there is an ample amount of finish left on the surface to protect the IPE, then the less you remove also means the less you'll have to replace. The sanding becomes an important process to remove any surface contaminants and to provide a bond between the old and the new finishes. It really depends upon the overall health of the existing IPE finish.

Vlies is also a great alternative to sandpaper and I prefer using that when I recoat teak outdoor furniture. It produces a nice scuff pattern that will bond the old finish to the new finish and it doesn't materially reduce the thickness of the original finish...it just scratches the old finish a bit to mechanically lock in the new finish.

Nice pool...are those aqua glass rocks lit from below with LED's...seems like an opportunity.  [smile]

 

[Duckler]

Babyduck!
I like the sound of that.
Anyway, I have a Fein Multimaster (120 volt; not battery) and it is great for getting in corners. It is a lot less money than a Festool Vecturo, and is better than the copycat versions that came out after Fein patent expired.
I don’t enjoy sanding, so good machines are really desirable. Can’t comment on which Festool sander you need, but the Fein is part of the equation IMO.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Given you're a girl and unless you have large hands I'd have to disagree with the Fein suggestion unless it is in addition to a random orbit sander. I absolutely love my own Fein and use it very often, but to rely on that as my main sander would never be a choice for me.

Given the high power, but low profile, low weight, and terrific ergonomics and lack of vibration transferred to your wrist/hands, I would absolutely agree with [member=44099]Cheese[/member] that the ETS EC 150/3 or ETS EC 150/5 would be the best all round sander in this case.

 

[semenza]

Yup, I'd go with a random orbit too. And the ETS range in general. The ETS 125 is OK, but the ETS 150 EC is a better sander, will get the job done much faster, and is very smooth running too. I'd be inclined to go with the /5 over the /3 as it is a bit more all purpose.

Probably go with Granat for sanding an oily surface.

  Are you getting a vac?

Seth

 

[woodferret]

To buck the trend, I'm gonna stick to my guns and say ETS not ETS EC.  For someone new, the 2mm stroke is far more forgiving.  I love my EC150/5 but that's because I have the appropriate pads, paper, and CT vac.  That's a lot of capital layout for doing the same thing just a tad faster but requiring more carefulness.  Stick with the ETS125.  You get the bumper (lacking on the ETS EC) and it self balances on horizontal surfaces and doesn't need a CT vac.

It may take a bit longer (remember you're asking people who generally hate sanding over many years) but it's cheaper and gets the job done.  It'll also be more useful around the house for knocking back things here and there.  And it's grip area is smaller (girl, med hands). 

 

[Birdhunter]

Unless you plan to dive into woodworking, I would not buy a sander right away. I would look for a furniture refinished to do the job. I have built 10 Ipe benches and it is a very difficult wood to work with. Also, the dust can be very bad for your skin and your lungs. I wore a respirator when cutting or sanding and took a long shower when quitting for the day. Your project is not a good one for an inexperienced person.

 

[Steve1]

Are you sure it even needs to be sanded ?

Look at Messmers or Penofin cleaners.  Ipe Oil probably makes some too, but I am not familiar with Ipe Oil.

The cleaners will remove the old finish.
However, when you watch their videos of a guy leisurely moving a brush back and forth -- that is bullfeathers.
You need a stiff bristled brush and need to scrub hard.    You should be seeing like a green/gray slime coming up.
Power-washing the cleaner off works almost as well as scrubbing.  I eventually got too old for the scrubbing.  Be careful not to get the pressure too high.
They say to use brightener (oxalic acid) after the cleaner.  It doesn't really "brighten" the wood, but it corrects the PH, so you should use it.

A lot of the cleaner/strippers are sodium carbonate and/or sodium percarbonate.  Didn't take me long to stop buying the branded deck cleaners and I would go to the grocery store and buy generic Oxy-Clean for a small fraction of the price (ingredients are same).
I kept one empty tub of "deck cleaner" just for the mixing instructions.

But you are still basically doing this once per year.  Hard work for sure.
Only option -- get to like the natural grey of Ipe aged in sunlight.
(Or, like me, build a new house with patio of concrete, stone and aluminum)

My guess is that this bench is new and you have never re-finished it yet.  I can tell because I don't see stains from the finish all over the concrete below.  These hardwood finishes are very low viscosity.  You WILL drip.  Also the stripping risks staining the concrete.  No answers on how to avoid staining the concrete.  Keep water flowing over it ?  Seal the concrete ?

 

[smorgasbord]

Here's a blog post someone wrote on sanding Ipe.https://workingbyhand.wordpress.com/tag/sanding-ipe/

Because it's such a hard wood, you're going to have to make the choice between something more aggressive that gets the job done in a reasonable amount of time, or something less aggressive with which you're less likely to make a mistake, unless you get overly tired.

Then you have to consider how much you want to invest in tools for this if this is your only sanding project.

Also, in addition to corners, you have the cracks between the boards. Hard to tell from the picture is the boards are rounded or chamfered - probably rounded, but either way you'll need some kind of detail sander to get in there. As the article suggests, you might get away with redoing the vertical boards less frequently than the horizontal boards.

If you're only buy one sander, I'd try out the RO90. It has all three modes: Rotex, random orbit, and orbital. That lets you be: aggressive, not so aggressive, and run corner detail. Downside is it's only 90mm in diameter and that big a bench would benefit from a 150mm sander.

The good thing is that if you wait until the bench needs sanding, you'll have 30 days to decide if the sander you bought is right for you. If not, return it and try something else based on what you learned.

 

[Babyduck]

The benchh has only been outside for a year and I had it tarped all winter so that no snow sat on it to maintain its beauty and longevity.  I do prefer the "oiled" look over the weathered silvered look as it ages - so keeping its original IPE appearance is the goal.

There were some rough spots that caught your skin a bit that had developed so I do need to knock those down so no one risks injury by running their hands along it or by sitting on it.  I was told to oil it at least every year.  I had considered using Deckwise Cleaner and Brightener before sanding and re-oiling however, you are correct in that it will likely make a huge mess on my concrete - that will bother me as I do like how it looks now.

So maybe I just sand and oil until it just gets really dirty?  Well that is another consideration I guess I will need to make - to wash and brighten or not.

I am going to check out, as some of you suggested, the ETS EC 150/5 EQ Plus and the 150/3 - it is a little more than I thought to spend - but the money is not really a huge factor and it is an investment and frankly the easier the equipment is to use the more likely I will want to make use of it.  The husband is quite happy that i prefer to buy quality tools rather than useless junk at Walmart that is not nearly as cool ... so he is happy with whatever I choose.

I do have a HEPA filtered shop vac that I was hoping to use with this as opposed to buying a festool vac system so I suppose I will need to figure out if that is possible and the parts needed to make that work.

I do appreciate all your help and advice.

BTW - The teal glass is not yet underlit with LED lighting - but it will be soon   The little dogwoods are artificial and from Las Vegas ... some things definitely don't stay in Vegas!  The bench was a brain wave in the middle of the night - it has a geared motor in there with 4 pistons to mechanically raise the lid and has a remote to push the solar blanket out and pull it back in just clearing the little dogwoods.  Engineering at its finest 

 

[smorgasbord]

The husband is quite happy that i prefer to buy quality tools rather than useless junk at Walmart that is not nearly as cool ... so he is happy with whatever I choose.

I'm sure he's quite happy: The only thing better than a wife letting me buy expensive Festools would be a wife that buys her own.
[big grin]

 

[Michael Kellough]

[member=81659]Babyduck[/member]  Who ARE you?!

“The bench was a brain wave in the middle of the night - it has a geared motor in there with 4 pistons to mechanically raise the lid and has a remote to push the solar blanket out and pull it back in just clearing the little dogwoods.  Engineering at its finest    “

I want to know more about this mechanism. Maybe some pictures?

 

[Cheese]

I want to know more about this mechanism. Maybe some pictures?

I'm with Michael on this one.  [big grin]  Pretty clever...

I'd also suggest you pick up a piece of IPE and experiment with sanding it and refinishing it, that way you get some personal experience refinishing without using the bench as the guinea pig. Refinish different parts of the sample with different oils and see which oil protects the best and which oil looks the best...if you're lucky maybe the best looking will also be the longest lasting.

Short story...kind of...I have a lot of teak outdoor furniture and the first few years when I refinished the teak, I brought everything down to bare wood. That's a beautiful look but it's a lengthy process. Over the years I can now tell ABOUT when it needs to be refinished and that's usually well before there are any bare spots. That usually entails a quick surface scuff with some Scotch-Brite (Vlies) and then a coat of oil.

The other part of this great adventure is finding an oil that survives your climatic conditions. I tried 5-6 different products before I settled on Festool Outdoor 498062. Unfortunately, Festool has discontinued all of their Surfix products but we did find out that Leinos manufactured the Festool oils so that's a start.