Help me choose my first Festool Sander!

[thegreenbastard]

Hey everyone,
I'm looking for some advice on what festool sander to purchase.

90% of my work is building walnut enclosures for synthesizers. The enclosures are made with 2.5" wide boards that are already fairly smooth (straight out of the thickness planer), and the bulk of the sanding is to level the rabbet joints in the corners.

Currently I use a 5" Dewalt ROS attached to my shopvac (with hepa filter). I go over the entire piece with 120 grit sandpaper, wet the wood to raise the grain, then knock it back down with 220 grit sandpaper before oil finishing.

During a production run, I'm doing this for approximately 15 hours. I'm a pretty small guy, so I find the dewalt pretty clumsy to move around and very fatiguing during those 15 hours of work. I'd like to get something to make this crappy part of the job a little less crappy.

I'm looking for something light and balanced, and dust collection is important to me. What festool sander would be ideal for this? I notice that they also offer air powered sanders, and I have a compressor in my shop - is there any advantage to this?

Also, do festool sanders take standard H&L pads or is the hole pattern proprietary?

 

[Shane Holland]

Welcome to the forum.

Owned a few Rolands in my day, so cool that you're into that type of thing.

I would suggest the new ETS 150/3 EC if it's in your budget. Powerful and lightweight. It'll give you a great finish. It's got a bigger pad that your current sander, which means you cover more area in less time. In fact, it's about 44% more surface are on the pad.

Festool does have their own hole pattern for the abrasives. There are a handful of companies that also make paper with the hole pattern. But, dollar per sheet Festool's paper is a great value.

Remember, you can score a Festool CT dust extractor for 10% off if you buy it with the sander, assuming you're in the U.S.

I'm sure others will give you some great advice too.

Shane

 

[thegreenbastard]

Welcome to the forum.

Owned a few Rolands in my day, so cool that you're into that type of thing.

I would suggest the new ETS 150/3 EC if it's in your budget. Powerful and lightweight. It'll give you a great finish. It's got a bigger pad that your current sander, which means you cover more area in less time. In fact, it's about 44% more surface are on the pad.

Festool does have their own hole pattern for the abrasives. There are a handful of companies that also make paper with the hole pattern. But, dollar per sheet Festool's paper is a great value.

Remember, you can score a Festool CT dust extractor for 10% off if you buy it with the sander, assuming you're in the U.S.

I'm sure others will give you some great advice too.

Shane

Thanks for the reply Shane,

I'm not sure if I need a larger pad than my current 5", the widest board I'm sanding is 3.5" and most are 2.5" - so I'd rather something lighter.

I can't afford a festool DC at this time unfortunately. I have my shopvac kitted out with a nice hose (similar to the festool ones) and a good hepa filter - so it gets the job done for now.

Glad to hear that the festool pads are a decent value.

 

[Shane Holland]

[member=60148]thegreenbastard[/member], the ETS 150 EC is only 2.6 pounds. That's incredibly light.

They also make a 5" version if you don't need the larger pad/size, which I should have mentioned. It's the same weight, 2.6 pounds.

If you're looking for something cheaper, check out the RTS 400 or DTS 400.

 

[ear3]

[member=60148]thegreenbastard[/member] Welcome to the Forum.  Can't speak for the Festool pneumatic sanders, but if I were to choose just one for the work you describe, it would be the ETS-EC 150/5.  The 150/5, as the name implies, has a 5mm stroke, as opposed to the 3mm stroke of the ETS 150/3, and so will sand faster.  That's not to say that the 150/3won't do what you are asking of it, but I find that the 3mm stroke only makes a difference for the finish if you are sanding above 400grit.  The only other reason to have the 3mm, IMHO, is if you are doing veneers, since the sander will not burn through them as quickly as the 5mm would.

If you get the sander and find that it is too wide for the work you are doing, I would exchange it for the 125 size, or even consider, as Shane suggested, the RTS/DTS400, which are great for narrow boards and edges.

 

[Bob Marino]

Agree about the ETS EC sanders and since you are partial to 5" sanders, here's a link to the Festool ETS EC 125 (5") sander -https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/brushless/5-random-orbit-sander-ets-ec125-3-571897.
You also may want to consider getting a hard pad for whatever your sander of choice is. Each Festool sander comes with a soft pad; the hard pad would help prevent rounding over the edges of your workpieces.

  Bob

 

[Theshipstore]

Based on your input and your usage I would go with the 5" ETS 125 EC for your sanding needs.
The 125 is a true finish sander that will clearly accomplish your tasks on your enclosures.

I have used the 125 as my go to finish sander for many years now going with the original ETS 125 and now the newer brushless ETS 125 EC.

I would advise like Shane has a combo package with a dust extractor ( CT Midi ) for the 10% savings that you could put towards some sandpaper,

Try it use it and remember the 30 day return policy if you feel it wont do the job you want

Sal

 

[waho6o9]

Welcome to the FOG

90% of my work is building walnut enclosures for synthesizers. The enclosures are made with 2.5" wide boards that are already fairly smooth (straight out of the thickness planer), "and the bulk of the sanding is to level the rabbet joints in the corners."

I'm not sure i understand, you want to purchase a sander to level rabbet joints?

I'd suggest a rabbet hand plane.

Save that and heed the excellent advice above and we're good to go.

 

[w802h]

I haven't used an RO 90, but I wonder if might be a great option since the pad size would be close to your board size and the ability the level joints quickly with Rotex mode a benefit.  The 1/8" stroke in random orbit mode should produce a fine finish.  I own 4 Festool sanders.  They really add a level of pleasure to a tedious job. 

 

[Shane Holland]

I haven't used an RO 90, but I wonder if might be a great option since the pad size would be close to your board size and the ability the level joints quickly with Rotex mode a benefit.  The 1/8" stroke in random orbit mode should produce a fine finish.

The RO 90 is a fantastic, versatile sander. But if lightweight and extended use are two criteria, I don't think it would make a good primary sander.

 

[w802h]

If the RO 90 is anything like the RO 150, I bet the gear-driven sanding would cut the time almost in half.  I've used a 4 lbs ETS 150/3 on ceilings/walls for several hours (not a big guy myself) at a whack and see pictures of Scott Burt using the 3.3 lbs. RO 90 on clapboards for whole sides of houses.  Again, i haven't used an RO 90.  I'm quite willing to accept that others know better. 

 

[Bob H]

I go with the ETS 125 EC it's easy to control and light.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

You should definitely look at geting a dust extractor. The great thing about the Festool vacuum is being able to adjust the suction.  Sanders run on low suction.  Hooking up to your normal shop vac will cause too much suction and make the sander not work properly.  A great choice for sanders is the ets ec 125 or ets ec 150.  I just bought the ets ec 150 3mm and it awesome.  Just sanded down some 1 3/4 face frames with a hard pad and it work great.  Definitely the best sander I have ever own.  Please take a look at the Festool Midi.

 

[mike_aa]

[member=60148]thegreenbastard[/member]

I know you are looking at light weight, but I think Festool can also cut down on your sanding time while offering better efficiency with the way the air flows over the abrasive.  Less dust and cooler sanding means you can see what you are doing more easily and the paper lasts longer.  What amazed me after I switched to Festool is how fast I was able to sand and how little paper I used.  Here's a video on the Festool "jetstream" technology:

Jetstream
[/quote]

 

[Holmz]

Wherein the world are you at?
I demoed a few Festools recently at Woodcraft shop in the US as well as Anderson Ply.

Also demoed the Mirka DEROS.
Ergonomically I like the Mirk which I think the ETS was modeled on.
It is the lightest one.

The Mirka sanding screens also last a long time.

As you aready have the vacum you may only need to try the sander.
All Mirka make are sanders, and they have been doing it for decades.
They are in no way following any one.

 

[thegreenbastard]

Wherein the world are you at?
I demoed a few Festools recently at Woodcraft shop in the US as well as Anderson Ply.

Also demoed the Mirka DEROS.
Ergonomically I like the Mirk which I think the ETS was modeled on.
It is the lightest one.

The Mirka sanding screens also last a long time.

As you aready have the vacum you may only need to try the sander.
All Mirka make are sanders, and they have been doing it for decades.
They are in no way following any one.

Hi Holmz, I'm in Canada. I didn't know Festool allowed you to try their tools and return them - that's pretty solid. Just discovering the Mirka sanders now that you've mentioned them - wow, pretty impressed. As someone that repairs a lot of electronics, I like seeing that the brushless motor's powersupply is a separate unit and not built into the sander and subject to the mechanical vibrations - that's really smart! I don't think I can swing the extra cost though, wow. Is there any quantifiable numbers for how long those Merka disks last compared to the festool ones?

 

[Rob in Vancouver]

Wherein the world are you at?
I demoed a few Festools recently at Woodcraft shop in the US as well as Anderson Ply.

Also demoed the Mirka DEROS.
Ergonomically I like the Mirk which I think the ETS was modeled on.
It is the lightest one.

The Mirka sanding screens also last a long time.

As you aready have the vacum you may only need to try the sander.
All Mirka make are sanders, and they have been doing it for decades.
They are in no way following any one.

Hi Holmz, I'm in Canada. I didn't know Festool allowed you to try their tools and return them - that's pretty solid. Just discovering the Mirka sanders now that you've mentioned them - wow, pretty impressed. As someone that repairs a lot of electronics, I like seeing that the brushless motor's powersupply is a separate unit and not built into the sander and subject to the mechanical vibrations - that's really smart! I don't think I can swing the extra cost though, wow. Is there any quantifiable numbers for how long those Merka disks last compared to the festool ones?

Hello Greenbastard

I'm on the west coast of BC.

Given the work your doing you may also want to consider the RO90.  ITs very versatile, my "go to" sanders.  It comes with a delta head as well.  Just a brain storm idea.

When it comes to deciding between the ETS EC 150 or the ETS EC 125 --- consider this, you can get the 125 for cheaper than the 150 and if you were in a pinch you could always buy the 150mm pad and stick it on the body of the 125/3.  In essence you pay for the 125 but have the option of using it as a 150/3.  I have done this on some test pieces with no trouble.  I eventually purchased the 125mm version

 

[Holmz]

...
Hi Holmz, I'm in Canada. I didn't know Festool allowed you to try their tools and return them - that's pretty solid.
...

It is a wise business move.

...
Just discovering the Mirka sanders now that you've mentioned them - wow, pretty impressed. As someone that repairs a lot of electronics, I like seeing that the brushless motor's powersupply is a separate unit and not built into the sander and subject to the mechanical vibrations - that's really smart! I don't think I can swing the extra cost though, wow. Is there any quantifiable numbers for how long those Merka disks last compared to the festool ones?

I think that the CEROS was with the separate power supply, which I like the idea of.
The DEROS has the supply inside and is a few ounces heavier, but the vibration is very low.

They say that the pads last 3-4x times longer and cost 2x more.
They are not cheap, but I do not change them often, and I have not run them against paper to compare.
Usually have used the round machines when I am doing epoxy, which clogs the paper... and I have no data to quantify how they compare. In fact the Mirka I ordered before XMAS resulted in a postal note on the door today, so I pick it up on the morrow. When I handled one in the shop, for me the ergonomics were totally worth the extra cost.

Mirka makes the screens in rectangular (1/2 sheet), 125-mm (5") and 6" (150-mm), amongst other sizes.
So you could use them on your existing deWalt and see for yourself.
For use wood I would not consider another solution, maybe for paint and epoxy I would consider the paper ones.

The ETS EC seems pretty good in terms of a low CG and handling, and is 100$ cheaper.
They all are probably good and if they all go into a vacuum, then it is about ergonomics, vibration, and power is likely a secondary concern (?).

Personally I would suggest getting some of the Mirka screens in 5" and see how they work for your on the existing deWalt. You already have the vacuum and HEPA. Maybe some 60, 80 and 120 screens and see how they go??

I have not done anything in walnut. I am assuming it is hard, but I cannot imagine why it takes 15 hours??

I use an orbital 1/2-sheet for most of my sanding. It is a total-beauty with lots of power, and came with Mirka screens. That is what got me looking at Mirkas
With the 1/2-sheet I can do 1 sq meter in an hour using 180 starting with 'washboard looking' Jarrah out of a planer, and ending at the point where it is smooth and ready for a finish. If most of your time is involved with getting it flat, then maybe start with 60 or 80 grit or a belt sander to get it flat? Then get it smooth with a RandomOrbital.
A weathered picnic table recently took ~1/2-hour and it is ~7'x3' with gaps in the wood, so it must be 1.5 - 2 M^2 .

So if you really need to get lots of material off, then maybe a belt sander or some biscuits to get the boards glued up better?
It seems like an old Biscuit joiner is cheap on Craig's-List or Kijiji.

I do not need a belt sander but I have been looking at them. The FT one is not a giveaway, but it looks nice. The Trition and the porter cable are on my list. As I have 230v I suspect I will go with a Triton, but where you are then a Porter Cable is probably the better choice, unless you have the funds for the FT one.

Depending on where in Canada you are, then it is possible that someone could give a loan of one (Belt, DEROS, etc)... If you are lucky.

I got the DEROS in the 230v rather than the 100v version. You would want a warranty on it. It is also likely that some change in process could get the time reduced, and if that is a belt sander or a biscuit joiner it would be good to know before you spend-up on a sander.

...

Hello Greenbastard

I'm on the west coast of BC.

Given the work your doing you may also want to consider the RO90.  ITs very versatile, my "go to" sanders.  It comes with a delta head as well.  Just a brain storm idea.

When it comes to deciding between the ETS EC 150 or the ETS EC 125 --- consider this, you can get the 125 for cheaper than the 150 and if you were in a pinch you could always buy the 150mm pad and stick it on the body of the 125/3.  In essence you pay for the 125 but have the option of using it as a 150/3.  I have done this on some test pieces with no trouble.  I eventually purchased the 125mm version

[member=60148]thegreenbastard[/member] - ^that post^ makes a lot of sense.

I have the DX93 corner sander.
If you need a corner sander then the delta head can makes sense in the context of the RO-90.

And the ETS EC seemed like it was almost as good as the Mirka in handling.
You could do worse (maybe even the DeWalt).

 

[Kev]

I'd personally get a Domino and switch my joints to mitre joints [big grin]