Help me get started with/pick out a TS55, MFT, vac and whatever else I need?

antss said:
Might be different for the fellas down under - but I have not run across a sheetgoods supplier in the SE United States that will cut sheet goods with any kind of accuracy needed for cabinet construction.

Some won't cut at all. Others have a skilsaw out back for customer convenience. The better ones have a unisaw, built hasn't been calibrated since the Nixon administration.

YMMV

It sounds like it warrants investigation. I am certain the HDepot would not do it, but the local miter10 has a big slider and charges 1$/cut.
If it was some place like the shop in Santa Monica then I would expect a slider. Or most cabinet shops if they are not too busy.

If there is none the Ramblings about not needing a TS straight away are misguided.
 
Welcome to FOG. First things first, It's going to cost. Starting with a TS, MFT, CT, tracks, clamps, dogs, and measuring devices you're only beginning. I've had my local big box cut ply for me, go with the TS. You will be able to cut pieces for cabinet boxes,how are you going to join them? The Domino seems to be the best. If you want shelving that can be moved the LR32 system will do the trick. That means a router, as others have said the OF 1010 or OF 1400 will do the job. We have yet to talk about sanders. Once you get one they seem to multiply. Sanders mean sandpaper which gets you into a whole other discussion. Go slowly, get your starter kit and build something. Plan you next project, if you need a tool you don't have then finances permitting get it.It took me four or five years to accumulate my collection. We call it the slippery slope for a reason. I didn't mention the accessories. It doesn't end. I hope you have an understanding spouse. Good luck and enjoy the tools and projects.
 
SS Teach said:
Welcome to FOG. First things first, It's going to cost. Starting with a TS, MFT, CT, tracks, clamps, dogs, and measuring devices you're only beginning. I've had my local big box cut ply for me, go with the TS. You will be able to cut pieces for cabinet boxes,how are you going to join them? The Domino seems to be the best. If you want shelving that can be moved the LR32 system will do the trick. That means a router, as others have said the OF 1010 or OF 1400 will do the job. We have yet to talk about sanders. Once you get one they seem to multiply. Sanders mean sandpaper which gets you into a whole other discussion. Go slowly, get your starter kit and build something. Plan you next project, if you need a tool you don't have then finances permitting get it.It took me four or five years to accumulate my collection. We call it the slippery slope for a reason. I didn't mention the accessories. It doesn't end. I hope you have an understanding spouse. Good luck and enjoy the tools and projects.

This is the truest thing ever posted on the internet. Ever.
 
Though not a festool, yet ur going to need a accurate square to set up your MRT. Most use a woodpeckers 1281 square. If your mft isn't set up correctly you will not be happy
 
Lots of good advice. I think adding a sander makes sense and Festool makes some of the best ones out there. For cabinets a half-sheet sander like the RS2E makes sense or one of the 150/3 RO sanders. For rough to finish solid wood processing, a Rotex is a great choice. Sanding into corners will come up at some point and so a DTS or RO90 would be my recommendation.

For stationary tools, I would invest in a quality bandsaw over a table saw initially. More useful for furniture making in my opinion. Paired with your Hammer J/P, there is little you would not be able to do, especially adding a track saw and MFT to the mix. I accomplish 95% of my cutting and prep with bandsaw, same J/P and track saw/MFT .

For track saws, my new favorite is the TSC 55...I just love this saw and not having to be tethered. It also seems to have more power than the corded version, but that could be me. I also started with a TS75 as the extra depth of cut and power is nice when working with solid wood.

Lots of folks recommending a Domino and they are great tools. But I would get a router first as it is a more versatile tool for joinery and edge treatments. I like Festool routers because of the accessories and center marks on the base and DC is part of every machine. The only other non Festool routers in the US that have center marks are Makita, the large Bosch plunge router and the Dewalt 621 plunge router. DC is available for some of these, but may or may not be as good and you have to buy or fabricate a base to use the guide rail for routing, which is really handy for lots of things.
 
johnsayen said:
Hi all,

I've read great things about the festool system, as well as the track saw and MFT's ability to make square panels.

I'm about to start building my shop cabinets and other various organization systems, and I think I'd like to invest in the festool system.

From what I've read thus far, I believe I should buy the following, but I'd like your input on what you think (specifically) I should start out with.

TS55
Tracks - which ones and how long?
Parallel system - which one?
A festool vac - which one?
MFT - which one?
Anything else? I literally have am empty shop right now, aside from basic hand tools and a miter saw.

I *think* I'd like to stick with imperial since that's what's being offered in the US now, so I'm hoping to have the tracks/parallel system both in imperial.

Thank you.

FYI I bought a 55 and later had to buy a 75 because I was cutting 1.75-inch doors and the 55 lacked the muscle. The 75 has a built-in clutch so you can tell when it's being over worked. So if cutting a butcher block top or a solid door is in the picture then maybe buy a 75. If it's just for cabinets then stick with the 55 as the 75 needs longer tracks because of the larger surface.
 
Does he need the complete MFT or wouldn't a custom top and dogs/parallel guides do just as well?  Curious myself too as I've been making do with the latter.
 
If you truly have no tools, then it's a little difficult to know what will be useful in the long run. Buy as basic as you can and add as you reach a point where you can't do what you want to do with what you have. To start, maybe the TS55 plus MFT/3, a CT vac (how big depends on your needs and portability requirements), and a router (like the OF1400); possibly a finish sander like an ETS125 or ETS150). The Domino DF500 would make assembling cabinets very easy and the result would be very strong well-made cabinets. Whether you need to buy extras like parallel guides or the LR32 system depends on how many cabinets you will be making and whether you will be cutting up full sheets of plywood for the cabinets or using smaller pieces of plywood rough cut outside of your shop. There are a lot of variables and each woodworker has different needs and projects. Again, I'd start as basic as you can with a few tools and build on it as you go along.
 
The majority of the thread seems to have become a tool fest.
A lot of guys/gals are counselled to pick up what is needed as they go.

Is there a design? What steps need to be done? (Dado/rebate, doors/hinges, adjustable shelves?

Knowing what one wants to end up with helps to define what steps are needed to get down the path.

Maybe a book on cabinets is best for a few weeks?

Motor said:
...
FYI I bought a 55 and later had to buy a 75 because I was cutting 1.75-inch doors and the 55 lacked the muscle. The 75 has a built-in clutch so you can tell when it's being over worked. So if cutting a butcher block top or a solid door is in the picture then maybe buy a 75. If it's just for cabinets then stick with the 55 as the 75 needs longer tracks because of the larger surface.

Good point, the TS55 has the least power of the various manufactures track saws. Whether that matters is dependent upon whether just sheets are being cut. One could argue that the more expensive and powerful track saw is much cheaper than acquiring both the TS55/TS75.

turnpike said:
Does he need the complete MFT or wouldn't a custom top and dogs/parallel guides do just as well?  Curious myself too as I've been making do with the latter.

Probably the complete kit if he is intending on cross cutting. There are arguments for building one's own, but just starting off the MFT has utility to do work. There is no clear right answer for everyone.

Building a proper hand tool bench would be great if one actually needs one.
 
Holmz said:
The majority of the thread seems to have become a tool fest.
A lot of guys/gals are counselled to pick up what is needed as they go.

Is there a design? What steps need to be done? (Dado/rebate, doors/hinges, adjustable shelves?

Knowing what one wants to end up with helps to define what steps are needed to get down the path.

Maybe a book on cabinets is best for a few weeks?

Thanks for the help - I intend to build "practical shop cabinets"http://www.tomclarkbooks.com/Practical_Shop_Cabinets.html

I don't have the manual yet so I'm not entirely certain what's all involved.

 
Thanks for the link [member=63299]johnsayen[/member] , I am certain one could spend a while perusing that, drawing and double-checking cut lists, etc.

Someone may have local reference of where to get materials.
Which state/city are you in?
 
RKA said:
There are discounts to be had in Festool land, however, here are two:

MFT ordered with a Track saw nets you 10% off the MFT.
Any power tool ordered with a dust extractor nets you 10% off the DE.

[member=21249]RKA[/member] do you (or anyone?) know how long the 10% DE/MFT sale is good for?
 
It's been available as long as I've been buying Festool (3.5 yrs).  I wouldn't expect it to go away without some notice.  Festool does raise prices annually every spring (for North America).  I think April 1st or thereabouts.  On average 3% or so.  So keep that in mind if you're planning some big purchases.
 
I would add a router to the list (suggesting the 1010 as it's most versatile when you have to stick to one out of budgetary reasons) as it can be used for edge processing like chamfers/rounding/patterns, flush trim for edge banding, slots/rebates, making recessed grips, copying from templates, mortices, with LR 32 for shelf pins/slides/hinge holes, put into a CMS, ... You'll most likely sink some money over time on accessories (like WA-OF, UP-OF, SF-OS, LR 32, ...) and bits but it's amazing what can be done with it.

Should you get a MFT with flip-rail: take the time to set it up from scratch (including adjusting the stop blocks for the rail holders in the tracks) prior first real use (make any test cuts with sacrifice sheet so you'll only cut into the real top after all is set and square). Easiest is to use bench dogs to align the fence and the rail, as the hole pattern in the top is square. The SYS-MFT-FX-Set is, while looking pricy, a nice companion to the MFT - but as you should get the MFT-SP (they're very handy to fix workpieces on the top for sanding or routing) and some more clamps anyway the cost isn't that huge, given the other parts you get with it.

Joining stuff: Domino is a unique tool and a great timesaver. Should that be out of budget but you have a router you could make yourself templates (for a copy ring) to precisely manufacture mortices for normal dowels or dominos. With creative clamping you could also create and position mortices for custom (wide) tenons using the LR32 system.

Sanding: Rotex - 150 if you want to process big areas, 90 if you need to go into corners. Have both and you'll most likely never need another sander/polisher (unless you do daily use or mass production, then a lighter/specialised sander might be nicer to use).

Rails: Always holey ones (to be ready should you ever get the LR32), skip festool rail connectors and get the makita ones instead.

Costs: When you handle your festools carefully their resell value will be great, sometimes it can even make sense to get a specialized tool for a one-off project and sell it afterwards.

Finally: always spend a bit of time and scrap material on a new tool till you're confident that it'll do what you want it to do.
 
Gregor said:
I would add a router to the list (suggesting the 1010 as it's most versatile when you have to stick to one out of budgetary reasons) as it can be used for edge processing like chamfers/rounding/patterns, flush trim for edge banding, slots/rebates, making recessed grips, copying from templates, mortices, with LR 32 for shelf pins/slides/hinge holes, put into a CMS, ... You'll most likely sink some money over time on accessories (like WA-OF, UP-OF, SF-OS, LR 32, ...) and bits but it's amazing what can be done with it.

Should you get a MFT with flip-rail: take the time to set it up from scratch (including adjusting the stop blocks for the rail holders in the tracks) prior first real use (make any test cuts with sacrifice sheet so you'll only cut into the real top after all is set and square). Easiest is to use bench dogs to align the fence and the rail, as the hole pattern in the top is square. The SYS-MFT-FX-Set is, while looking pricy, a nice companion to the MFT - but as you should get the MFT-SP (they're very handy to fix workpieces on the top for sanding or routing) and some more clamps anyway the cost isn't that huge, given the other parts you get with it.

Joining stuff: Domino is a unique tool and a great timesaver. Should that be out of budget but you have a router you could make yourself templates (for a copy ring) to precisely manufacture mortices for normal dowels or dominos. With creative clamping you could also create and position mortices for custom (wide) tenons using the LR32 system.

Sanding: Rotex - 150 if you want to process big areas, 90 if you need to go into corners. Have both and you'll most likely never need another sander/polisher (unless you do daily use or mass production, then a lighter/specialised sander might be nicer to use).

Rails: Always holey ones (to be ready should you ever get the LR32), skip festool rail connectors and get the makita ones instead.

Costs: When you handle your festools carefully their resell value will be great, sometimes it can even make sense to get a specialized tool for a one-off project and sell it afterwards.

Finally: always spend a bit of time and scrap material on a new tool till you're confident that it'll do what you want it to do.

Thanks [member=53905]Gregor[/member] this was really helpful. I spent some time today looking at the 1010 and 1400 routers and was perplexed as to how to proceed. There are a ton of opinions about it on this forum and others, but it seems like people love the 1010 except for the fact that it can't accept 1/2" cutters. On the other hand, supposedly the 1400 is a beast and is less maneuverable in the LR32.

Then there were some people that said you might as well just buy both, that sounds expensive!

This forum rocks, thank you to everyone for all of the help thus far.
 
johnsayen said:
Thanks [member=53905]Gregor[/member] this was really helpful. I spent some time today looking at the 1010 and 1400 routers and was perplexed as to how to proceed. There are a ton of opinions about it on this forum and others, but it seems like people love the 1010 except for the fact that it can't accept 1/2" cutters. On the other hand, supposedly the 1400 is a beast and is less maneuverable in the LR32.

Then there were some people that said you might as well just buy both, that sounds expensive!
Then at least writing up the gist again was worth it (the original one was way longer and had more details).

1010
vs. the
1400

it's a difference in weight (+price) but the 1400 has features that might be interesting:
the bigger collet, ratchet spindle lock, quick change for copy rings and chip diverter (1010: need to handle screws and centering), guide fence with fine adjust and one-knob lock on tool, bigger base option to make it a little more stable, slightly more power.

Prices for accessories (like copy rings) are higher for the 1400, and I havn't tried the WA/UP-OF combo (which turns the 1010 into a fair substitute for an OFK 500 to deal with edge banding) on a 1400 where it might perform worse as of the higher weight.

I went with the 1010 and apart from the (compared to 1400 longer) time it takes to change bits and copy rings I'm very pleased with it, but might get me a 1400 or 2200 to (mostly) live in my CMS-OF at some point in the future.

YMMV, so best would be for you to go to your local festool dealer and try both out to see which you like better - or pick one, get it, try it at home and use the no-questions-asked-money-back in case you're not happy.

Peter compares all three:

Accessories fitting both:
 
johnsayen said:
Hi all,

I've read great things about the festool system, as well as the track saw and MFT's ability to make square panels.

I'm about to start building my shop cabinets and other various organization systems, and I think I'd like to invest in the festool system.

From what I've read thus far, I believe I should buy the following, but I'd like your input on what you think (specifically) I should start out with.

TS55
Tracks - which ones and how long?
Parallel system - which one?
A festool vac - which one?
MFT - which one?
Anything else? I literally have am empty shop right now, aside from basic hand tools and a miter saw.

I *think* I'd like to stick with imperial since that's what's being offered in the US now, so I'm hoping to have the tracks/parallel system both in imperial.

Thank you.

Just my own opinion:

The TS55 is the greatest tool ever made, buy three of them now. :)

Tracks, buy as many as you think you'll actually use. I have a ton of them and use all of them just about everyday. The 106" is the one I use most because I break down a lot of full sheet goods. You need to determine what you're going to be cutting.

I don't own the parallel system. It looks really cool, but I have managed very well without for over ten years with my TS55. If you have the money, go for it, but you certainly can do without.

I'm a Fein Vac fan, so I won't comment on the Festool vac.

I never liked the MFT. I bought it with my TS55 and just never cared for it at all. I've always used sawhorses with 2xs on top, or a sheet of rigid insulation as my cutting platform. The little I used the MFT, I found it be lacking in size and accuracy. Maybe the ones made today are better, but the one I had years ago was very disappointing to me. I recently picked up a couple of the new Kreg Mobile Project Centers and I LOVE them. Very versatile in the way you can set them up. One alone doesn't do much for you, but with 2 of them, the possibilities are endless. Just a great product...
 
johnsayen said:
...
Do you all think I'm headed down the right path?

A * tracksaw is handy, and a * vacuum is handy. It is hard to go wrong and is most peoples #1 tool for sheets.
A * finish sander or an ETS/EC is generally useful, and most plywood does not require much sanding.

After that the options open up as to how one can approach fastening and joining the parts together.
So comparing other manufacturers approaches can give you insight into what is best for you.

If you are going dados/rebates then your options are:
- MT26 (optimal)
- Table saw and dado stack (best value if you have a table saw)
* Router

For fastening:
- Screws (Kreg) (best value)
* Lamello Clampex/Tenso  (optimal)
- biscuits (good for sheets)
* Dominos (better when the wood is thicker, but the 4 or 5-mm work)
- Dowels  (better when the wood is thicker)

For 32-mm shelf pins:
- DD40 doweler  (optimal)
- LR-32 + router * (or other brands have similar)
- 32-mm shelf Jig (Kreg amongst others) (best value)

Trimming:
*Lamello Cantex (Optimal)
*Router

The above covers a broad spectrum to compare the Festools against, and many people have used a variety of options and gotten great results. I put * next to what I use/have.

Even though a router is generally not the "optimal tool", they are handy for most things.
If you only had 3 tools, then one would almost certainly be a router.
 
EMWLou said:
I never liked the MFT. I bought it with my TS55 and just never cared for it at all. I've always used sawhorses with 2xs on top, or a sheet of rigid insulation as my cutting platform. The little I used the MFT, I found it be lacking in size and accuracy. Maybe the ones made today are better, but the one I had years ago was very disappointing to me. I recently picked up a couple of the new Kreg Mobile Project Centers and I LOVE them. Very versatile in the way you can set them up. One alone doesn't do much for you, but with 2 of them, the possibilities are endless. Just a great product...

I do fine with a couple of saw horses and a 5' x 3' MRMDF sheet with CNC holes in it.  Never had the MFT so don't know what I'm missing.
 
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