Help me prioritize - which festools are *much* better than other offerings?

[Dan Clark]

Fusilier,

The OF1400 is not considered a good choice for a traditional router table.  However, if "router table" = "CMS", I believe that's a different story. 

Regards,

Dan.

 

[brandon.nickel]

This one has been debated many times.  The consensus is that the OF1400 is way overkill for a router table in terms of function and cost.  It does not have an easy method of adjustment from above the table, nor does it really have the power to spin large panel raising bits (75mm+).  For less money you can get a router and lift that are more powerful and work with the router lifts from Woodpeckers and JessEm.  I personally have a Porter-Cable 7518 motor mounted in a Woodpecker's QuickLift.  I think the OF1400 is too good of a hand-held router to limit it to under-table work.  I'm also personally too lazy to mount and dismount it whenever I want to change operations, so for me two separate routers is a must.  The PC7518 is the de-facto high-end standard, but many people are using Freud or Triton and are very happy with them. 

 

[rodwolfy]

This one has been debated many times.  The consensus is that the OF1400 is way overkill for a router table in terms of function and cost.  It does not have an easy method of adjustment from above the table, nor does it really have the power to spin large panel raising bits (75mm+).  For less money you can get a router and lift that are more powerful and work with the router lifts from Woodpeckers and JessEm.  I personally have a Porter-Cable 7518 motor mounted in a Woodpecker's QuickLift.  I think the OF1400 is too good of a hand-held router to limit it to under-table work.  I'm also personally too lazy to mount and dismount it whenever I want to change operations, so for me two separate routers is a must.  The PC7518 is the de-facto high-end standard, but many people are using Freud or Triton and are very happy with them. 

Brandon,

You seem to be familiar with routers. I have a Bosch 1617vs with the plunge & fixed bases, a 1618Dvs, a Hitachi 3hp (in a table), a Bosch Colt, a Makita Laminate trimmer and a 3hp Felder shaper. The only thing that I don't like about the Bosch's is the lack of dust collection, especially on my Leigh D4R. Do you or the others really think that the Festool 1400 is worth the money over the other routers out there? What could I do with it that I cannot do now? I'm sure that I could figure out some way to run my current routers off the guide rail...

Rod

 

[Overtime]

 
  Fusilier,

  The good news is that you now own "one of The best hand held plunge routers made"  It is Best in it's class ( open for debate or scrum ) ;D  The 1400 is loaded with features that are easy to use. The router was designed for hand held use. It has way more features and functions than a table mounted router would typically have.  Here in the US of A the trend for router tables is to have a dedicated router mounted in a "router table" and the router is adjusted from the top. Like a shaper. 
  Jessem

This is what I have with a PC7518

Festool has made it possible to use their routers and other festools in the CMS table. The only problem would be switching the router from table to hand held use and making bit adjustments. That will test your patience. But they would not effect the use of the router, only the time required to accomplish the task at hand. I suggest that you try to see the CMS in person and see how it is used in conjunction with your router. If you can keep the 1400 - Bob's your uncle !     

 

[hazmat]

Well I spent some more money last night & snuck some systainers into the shop under the cover of darkness...

TS55 saw & MFT 1080 combo and Barrel grip jigsaw followed me home.

Only got a chance to play with the TS55.  10minute impression - cuts are as good as my cabinet saw with zero clearance insert.  Dust collection is better.  Cross cutting is easier than using my exator sliding table, but the cabinet saw is still "king of ripping" or any cut that can be done as a "rip" - for example cross cutting smaller plywood pieces where the width is close to the length (thus enough "contact" on the rip fence to maintain alignment).

I was really impressed by the performance of the guide rail even w/o clamping it.

I really shoulda tried festool earlier.

 

[Lou Miller]

Brandon,

You seem to be familiar with routers. I have a Bosch 1617vs with the plunge & fixed bases, a 1618Dvs, a Hitachi 3hp (in a table), a Bosch Colt, a Makita Laminate trimmer and a 3hp Felder shaper. The only thing that I don't like about the Bosch's is the lack of dust collection, especially on my Leigh D4R. Do you or the others really think that the Festool 1400 is worth the money over the other routers out there? What could I do with it that I cannot do now? I'm sure that I could figure out some way to run my current routers off the guide rail...

Rod

I'm not Brandon, but I'll toss my two cents in anyway... The OF1400 integrates with the whole Festool system nicely and that's probably the single biggest reason to get one. Using it with the guide rails is nice, the ratcheting collet is cool, the dust collection works well for some operations (only so-so for some too), and the plunge is very smooth. Having said all of that, the only thing it really does differently is guide rail use. Other than that, its just another router, IMO. Its very well made and its solid, but its not really head and shoulders above the competition. Not IMO anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I like mine and I'm glad I have it. However, to say it was truly worth the extra cost, I don't really think it was. It may be the best one on the market, but there are some very good routers available for a lot less money. If you want to invest the time setting up another router for use with the guide rails, you'll be able to do the exact same operations with it. It's not like the saws in terms of how unique they are.

 

[rodwolfy]

I'm not Brandon, but I'll toss my two cents in anyway... The OF1400 integrates with the whole Festool system nicely and that's probably the single biggest reason to get one. Using it with the guide rails is nice, the ratcheting collet is cool, the dust collection works well for some operations (only so-so for some too), and the plunge is very smooth. Having said all of that, the only thing it really does differently is guide rail use. Other than that, its just another router, IMO. Its very well made and its solid, but its not really head and shoulders above the competition. Not IMO anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I like mine and I'm glad I have it. However, to say it was truly worth the extra cost, I don't really think it was. It may be the best one on the market, but there are some very good routers available for a lot less money. If you want to invest the time setting up another router for use with the guide rails, you'll be able to do the exact same operations with it. It's not like the saws in terms of how unique they are.
[/quote]

Lou,

Thanks for the post. I was wondering about getting one or something else. I wanted to get the package discount of buying two tools at once - saw/mft and then vacuum/??? Ideally, they would have some kind of a package deal for a discount on 3 tools, but no such luck! I've been thinking about the Domino, but at a cost of about $1k for the unit and tenons, it's quite steep. (I already have a mortising machine and biscuit joiner!) Anything else I should consider?

 

[chughes]

I've been in the field since 1985 and have used about every brand of portable power tool known to man.  When I went to college I worked for PC as a repair tech.  So I've seen alot.  Currently I own a TS 75 and four rails, a rotex  125, 1010 router, and a mft extended to about 78".  I would say that the tool I use the most is the TS 75.  It replaces my portable table saw for most uses, although sometimes I have to break out ruseau table and drop in the makita bench top.
I have used alot of different sanders most recently a bosch 5", but recently I bought the RO 125.  When I upgraded from a dewalt 5" to the bosch I thought " wow, now I'm moving material".  That was nothing compared to the impression that the RO left.  I bought the tool to strip a stairway that had been poorly finished, but before I got to that job I decided to practice sanding to get a feel for the sander.  Sanding normally done with wide belts our drums can be done in the field using RO's.

 

[Lou Miller]

Lou,

Thanks for the post. I was wondering about getting one or something else. I wanted to get the package discount of buying two tools at once - saw/mft and then vacuum/??? Ideally, they would have some kind of a package deal for a discount on 3 tools, but no such luck! I've been thinking about the Domino, but at a cost of about $1k for the unit and tenons, it's quite steep. (I already have a mortising machine and biscuit joiner!) Anything else I should consider?

It depends on the work you do, but I'd seriously consider getting the Domino despite its price tag. Its just an awesome tool. I owned a mortiser and a biscuit joiner before buying mine too. I've since sold them both. If not the Domino, how about one of the sanders? I have the RO150, ETS150/3 and a Deltex93. All of which are great tools and way better than any of the competitions offerings in their class. The ETS150/3 is, by far, the nicest sander I've ever used.

 

[rodwolfy]

[/quote]

It depends on the work you do, but I'd seriously consider getting the Domino despite its price tag. Its just an awesome tool. I owned a mortiser and a biscuit joiner before buying mine too. I've since sold them both. If not the Domino, how about one of the sanders? I have the RO150, ETS150/3 and a Deltex93. All of which are great tools and way better than any of the competitions offerings in their class. The ETS150/3 is, by far, the nicest sander I've ever used.
[/quote]

Lou,

I actually already purchased an RO 150 FEQ when it came out last year. I already had a fein vac, so I wasn't planning on getting a Festool vac. However, my wife has taken over using my fein for around the house cleaning, so it's only in my shop 1/2 the time. I'm building a set of cabinets at my parents house (about 40 mile drive r/t), so I need an extra vac. The fein is $300, but I like the idea of getting the boom arm set up as the cord and hose is a PTA when I'm using it around my shop. I was debating trying to come up with the extra $ for the OF1400 to get a discount, as it looks really convienent to use it on the guide rail for dados & rabbits (you can do rabbits OK, right?).

Actually, I'm having a rotator cuff repair, so I'll be off work for a couple of months. I'm going to have my dad do most of the cutting on the cabinets in his garage, while I tell him how and what to do.

Rod

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Rod,

A similar phenomenon tends to occur to my Fein vac, too.  The wife seldom goes for the Festool vac - too heavy for her, and she is concerned that Festool's hard plastic wheels may scratch the wood floor.  Although I have both vacs, the Fein gets more use overall.  I have not had much of the issues with my Festool sanders when coupled to the Fein that others have expressed when full vacuum suction is applied.

I hope all goes well with repair of your rotator cuff, and that you're back in the Festool saddle soon.

Dave R.

 

[rodwolfy]

Rod,

A similar phenomenon tends to occur to my Fein vac, too.  The wife seldom goes for the Festool vac - too heavy for her, and she is concerned that Festool's hard plastic wheels may scratch the wood floor.  Although I have both vacs, the Fein gets more use overall.  I have not had much of the issues with my Festool sanders when coupled to the Fein that others have expressed when full vacuum suction is applied.

I hope all goes well with repair of your rotator cuff, and that you're back in the Festool saddle soon.

Dave R.

Dave,

Thanks. I was wondering about the suction. I've got to get my laminate floor in by next week (painting all this weekend!) as the surgery is on the 20th.

So...I called Uncle Bob and ordered the MFT1080 and the TS55 a minute ago, along with a bunch of clamps and accessories. I won't have the cash until the end of the month for the vac - and I'm leaning towards the OF1400 router. Do you find the volume to be enough on the CT22? I was leaning towards the CT33, which is still less than my Fein II...

Rod

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Rod,

I also seek to maximize versatility when choosing equipment for my home / hobbyist shop.  For my limited use as a hobbyist working at home the volume of both the Fein and the C22 are adequate, but that will depend on what use you intend to make of it.  If you are planning to connect your vacuum machine to a power planer, or make lots of dados or making raised panels with your router, you're going to fill either of those vacs fairly quickly.  I addressed that problem by inserting a mini-cylcone (Oneida Dust Deputy in my case) between the tool and the vac.  Most of the dust and chips end up in the drum below the cyclone and never reach the vacuum bag.  You can find other discussions on this forum about the cost and efffectiveness of various options which range in cost from about $20 for one of those "cyclone lids" on a pail/drum to >$200 for a top cyclone with collector drum and hoses and fittings.  If you plan on making lots of chips with your router, I recommend you consider getting a 36mm hose as well because it is less likely to clog due to larger chips and splinters being torn off when routing edges.  You can buy a 36mm hose separately, or obtain it as a component of one of Festool's cleaning kits.  I chose to buy a cleaning kit, and a hose-to-hose coupler, which enables me to string 2 hoses end to end (after applying a couple of wraps of vinyl electrical tape around the tool end collar on the 36mm hose) so I can reach anywhere in my shop without having to move the vacuum.

Dave R.

 

[Bob Childress]

Some great advice in here, and I'm not going to add to it. Just to point out, there have been 32 replies to this thread but over 1,100 views. I take that as a sign that it is an important, basic, information-giving topic that may be worthy of some kind of permanency in another form.

Just my 2 bob's worth.

 

[rodwolfy]

Rod,

I also seek to maximize versatility when choosing equipment for my home / hobbyist shop.  For my limited use as a hobbyist working at home the volume of both the Fein and the C22 are adequate, but that will depend on what use you intend to make of it.  If you are planning to connect your vacuum machine to a power planer, or make lots of dados or making raised panels with your router, you're going to fill either of those vacs fairly quickly.  I addressed that problem by inserting a mini-cylcone (Oneida Dust Deputy in my case) between the tool and the vac.  Most of the dust and chips end up in the drum below the cyclone and never reach the vacuum bag.  You can find other discussions on this forum about the cost and efffectiveness of various options which range in cost from about $20 for one of those "cyclone lids" on a pail/drum to >$200 for a top cyclone with collector drum and hoses and fittings.  If you plan on making lots of chips with your router, I recommend you consider getting a 36mm hose as well because it is less likely to clog due to larger chips and splinters being torn off when routing edges.  You can buy a 36mm hose separately, or obtain it as a component of one of Festool's cleaning kits.  I chose to buy a cleaning kit, and a hose-to-hose coupler, which enables me to string 2 hoses end to end (after applying a couple of wraps of vinyl electrical tape around the tool end collar on the 36mm hose) so I can reach anywhere in my shop without having to move the vacuum.

Dave R.

Dave,

I'm likely going to use the vac for jobs away from home, where dust collection isn't available, but needed. I'm just a hobby guy too. I make cabinets and furniture for friends and family frequently (my brother's kitchen most recently). My day job is driving a car with a gumball machine on the roof. (My injury was from my day job).

I have the cyclone lid for my dust collector, which I hook up to my old Felder. My biggest frustration has been the use of my routers (I think at last count I had 7) which spew dust everywhere (including my lungs - gonna start wearing that dusk mask all the time). I was going to get the boom arm as that solves another frustration with my hoses always getting caught on my workbench. Wouldn't the use of the mini cyclone defeat the boom arm?

OK, so now that were talking vacs: do you recommend the perpetual vacuum bag that you keep cleaning (like $150) or just the replaceable ones? Someone mentioned on another post that they just used the one that came with the vac over and over, dumping it as needed.

Thanks for the advice on the 36mm hose. Does the "Y" fitting attach to the 36mm? Does it matter about the "Anti-static" hose vs. not? It looks like the anti-static is a lot more $$. Which cleaning kit did you like? Does the wet kit take long to switch out? I never got the one for my Fein as it was a pain to switch over. I use a 10+ year old crapsman that smells bad (dog stuff on the carpet), doesn't filter anywhere close to HEPA (which with all the diseases switching over from animal to human seems like a risk) and takes up too much space. Would you go buy a dedicated shop vac or spend the $$ for the wet conversion tank? I could get a rather nice whole shop vac for $100 I'd think...

By the way, Thanks too for that off topic post (Spray Equipment). It was great to hear about Phelps and the Fuji Turbine system. I got it today, delivered for $648. Saved $400 over the Apollo one that I had on order a couple of weeks ago. They have a new one available too. A white Q4 SE at a discount...

Thanks again!

Rod

 

[Dave Rudy]

Just my 2 bob's worth.

You're only 1 Bob, and I say we need a forum rule that one Bob only gets one Bob's worth on any subject. 

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Rod. 

I don't see why use of the boom arm prevents use of a mini-cyclone.  The boom arm (which I have) comes with a few feet of 50mm A/S hose, both ends are equipped with rotary male fittings that fit the vacuum machine and a double female coupling so you can hook the 50mm hose to the vacuum end of your 36mm or 27mm Festool hose.  Instead of coupling these hoses directly together, you can couple the tool hose to the inlet of your cylcone and the 50mm hose to "air out" fitting at the top of your cyclone.

If I had not chosen the cyclone, I might have purchased Festool's cloth bag.  If you search on FOG, you should find other posts describing how Festool's paper bags can be reused, at least a few times.  And several users have pointed out that Festool's vacuum machines really pack the sawdust tightly into their filter bags, so if your mobile use is fairly limited, you might decide that using disposable Festool bags is good enough.

Yes, the Y-fitting fits the 36mm hose.  The single end of the Y-fitting is a male fitting sized to fit into Festool's (and Fein's) vacuum machine.  The double end is two equal sized female fittings, each designed to receive the male fitting of Festool's hoses that would normally go into the vacuum machine.

I cannot help you in regard to the wet kit.  I don't intend to use my Festool vac for that service.  I have the wet filter kit for my Fein but have never used it - yet.  Instead, I still use my Craftsman for wet pickup.

I'm glad to hear that you benefitted from the Spray equipment information.  I am about to use mine on a second project - a large garage storage cabinet that I intend to set in a back corner of my garage/shop and never move.  I need some advice in using it to obtain an opague white, smooth painted surface on birch ply substrate.  If I could buy melamine coated plywood, I would have used it instead.  Finishing is likely to take me as much time as building it. 

Dave R.

 

[Eli]

Dave- OT, but why not laminate the ply yourself?

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Eli,

I have zero experience in working with laminates, so I am a bit intimidated.  The closest I have come is making some hexagonal lamp tables with a carpathian elm burl veneer panel (glued onto birch ply), and repairing some mahogany veneered doors.  Are you suggesting I cut my birch ply cabinet pieces, then laminate white melamine sheet onto them?  If so, where do you suggest I go to learn how to do it?  (Also, I recently purchased a Fuji spray paint system.)

Until your message, I was thinking of painting the outsides of rough cut panels white (acrylic latex resin base), and overcoating them with some clear finish (Oxford USL?), then finish cutting, routing, drilling etc. and assembly.  I had the panels rough ripped at HD so they could fit into the trunk of my car.  I have sprayed the main surfaces of the panels with Oxford's WB shellac.  I had planned to shoot some USL or other clear topcoat finish on the interior surfaces.

Dave R.

 

[Eli]

It's really not too hard. I think it's easier and less fussy than getting veneers right, because the laminate is more rigid. Cut your panels a bit oversized. Contact cement panels and laminate. Use dowels or something to hold the laminate off the joining surface until it's aligned (once it sticks, you're done, so make sure the mating surfaces don't touch). Remove dowels or whatever spacer you use one at a time, working your way across the panel. Roll it out with a j-roller. Remember to let the contact cement air cure for recc'd time (this is before surfaces are joined), and ventilate really well or you'll be high as a d-con rat.

Trim panels to size. You are working with really big panels tho. This is for the big rolling garage storage units?

And I'm just re-reading your post and see that you've got a primary finish on already? Maybe contact cement wouldn't stick so well now.