Help needed!!! Ctl midi won't start after update.

[Jiggy Joiner]

All of my 240 volt Festool tools have the fuse in the plug but, my 110 volt Festool does not but, the step down transformers we use have the fuse in the plug still.
I guess there must be safety cut outs implemented in the PCB's and circuitry, and that's possibly kicked in with the OP's midi?

I suppose the machines have a maintenance port that the techs plug into, to get diagnoses and resets etc?

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

No fuse - except for the one in the UK plug(s).

Read about the plug, design, fuse (and use thereof) here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets:_British_and_related_types

Kind regards,
Oliver

Thanks Oliver.

 

[Sasa9]

So guys , i have called the Festool Germany and they don't know anything because the Ctl Midi is completely new product. My replacement is on the way and the broken one i need to send back to Festool.
Cheers! 

 

[threesixright]

So guys , i have called the Festool Germany and they don't know anything because the Ctl Midi is completely new product. My replacement is on the way and the broken one i need to send back to Festool.
Cheers!

Aha, well at-least a solution! Have fun with the new one, I like mine  [thumbs up]  [tongue]

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

That's good news, maybe swerve the update too  [wink]

 

[Sanderxpander]

I don't mean this to be taken as if to blame the OP, but I've learned to be very reticent with updates, most especially with critical tools. I'm a musician by trade and rely a lot on software for production. With quite literally 1000 pieces of software that all need to work together, there's really no need to jeopardize a working system with a (most of the time) routine update.

Just saying because I'm wondering what could be so essential about an update to a dust extractor?

Glad your issue is being dealt with by Festool!

 

[threesixright]

Just saying because I'm wondering what could be so essential about an update to a

Well w few sensor are read electronically, temp, suction level and there is the BT. Which might be crucial. I dontknow what they changed, even weirder mine is ½ old and I do t see any updates.

That said. If the upgrade failed, FT should get their affairs in order.  Although great service, shouldn’t happen in the first place.

Sent from my X using Tapatalk

 

[Sanderxpander]

I understand there are electronics in there, but it could just as easily be a maintenance update to the Bluetooth that doesn't affect the OP's setup at all. Presumably it was working before, and now it's bricked. Just saying, it's worth checking if the update is important for YOU, rather than just updating for the heck of it.

Definitely Festool needs to see to the problem, especially with "service all inclusive".

 

[RKA]

I have to say, I love Bluetooth, but this is one aspect I’m not looking forward to.  Firmware updates on batteries and tools.  Festool is new to this, but even if they weren’t, I would be uneasy.  Great that this one was covered under warranty, but the life of our tools goes many times beyond.  I’m not going to stop buying tools, but it does leave me uneasy, and I’m sure a day will arrive when I’ll talk about the good old days when the lack of technology made life simpler.  Tool doesn’t start, check the switch.  Now, reboot, then go through set up procedure, then firmware update...

 

[threesixright]

In the old days, updating firmware was challenging. Do it with good weather, put your tongue in the right angle and hope for the best. Yet still it was a hit or miss. But updating firmware has come a long way, there is no need for a vendor to implement it in such way they are depending on the errors on the user. So IMO, since it looks the machine is bricked, then its just amateur hour on the side of FT.

I get it, this is not their core business,  developing and designing tools is a different cup of tea than software development. They should just hire the right people, or outsource it to a company that knows what they are doing.

[member=66046]Sanderxpander[/member] I agree, not just for the heck of it. And for sure it would be smart to wait a few days / weeks and see if it doesn't bring problems, because thats the reality. And FT should of-course publish som release notes, so you know why your updating (and wetter thats something you need right away).

 

[Gregor]

The problem the OP likely encountered (which sounds as if update aborted half-way through flashing for whatever reason, leaving the device with a broken firmware image - or none at all) is the reason why computer mainboards these days have room for two BIOS images: in case an update fails it will be detected by the bootloader (through checksum mismatch) to fallback to the old, working version - instead of bricking the board.

 

[threesixright]

The problem the OP likely encountered (which sounds as if update aborted half-way through flashing for whatever reason, leaving the device with a broken firmware image - or none at all) is the reason why computer mainboards these days have room for two BIOS images: in case an update fails it will be detected by the bootloader (through checksum mismatch) to fallback to the old, working version - instead of bricking the board.

Exactly, so bottom line a fck-up on the side of FT. There is no need for this, might be a tad more expensive. But they could make -sorry, nothing personal- fool-proof. On top, shipping vacuum cleaners cant be cheap, so the costs for taking care of these issues, would easily cover a bit more robust design.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I'm even surprised they put a processor in something so simple as a vacuum cleaner. Make stuff too complicated, stuff fails.

 

[Gregor]

Make stuff too complicated, stuff fails.

Stuff fails, more sales - as long as it survives the warranty period.

Icing on the cake would be a re-classify of the vacs as accessories (instead of tools).

 

[threesixright]

Make stuff too complicated, stuff fails.

Stuff fails, more sales - as long as it survives the warranty period.

Well not sure about this, are you saying the would do this deliberate? Along the lines:

if S/N is older than warranty period : brick the software?

[big grin]

Obviously a very persistent and popular myth (design stuff in such a way it fails outside warranty...) . As long there is no whistleblower coming forward, I think it's simply a design error. I don't think you can not keep this type of strategy very long hidden....

 

[threesixright]

I'm even surprised they put a processor in something so simple as a vacuum cleaner. Make stuff too complicated, stuff fails.

Yeah, well don't they measure some stuff to be able to classify it as a M (and H) class?

a true M Class dust extractor will have an audible alarm to advise you when the suction rate has dropped, for example a blocked hose or full dust bag.

Not sure if you need a CPU for that, buy it might be easier and more robust.

However, I do like my BT button on the hose!  [big grin]

Maybe AvE (YT) can do a teardown, that will be hilarious  [tongue] [big grin]

 

[AlexThePalex]

Not sure if you need a CPU for that, buy it might be easier and more robust.

Generally speaking, an electric device that is able to run software is in a higher tier of complexity than one that can not. And CPU's are most certainly not more robust, due to their complex nature. They tend to crash very often.

And no, you certainly do not need to have a CPU on board to differentiate between L, M and H class.

Sasa9 posted a screenshot of the app on his phone that connects through bluetooth. All very science-fictiony, but useless data nevertheless. A broken vac for that? High price to pay.

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

With modern design and techniques, lots of things are computerised, and this will no doubt increase. The computer control allows easy maintenance and servicing amongst other things.
I have bought many electrical items in the last few years, that have needed firmware updates straight out of the box. It’s always a nervous time for me but, most of the time everything updates and works fine.
I did recently update a TomTom sat nav that was working fine, as it always had. After the update it became a paperweight. I contacted TomTom who told me the device was faulty and they could fix it for £70 (yeah right)
It turned out to indeed be a faulty update, and thousands of owners suffered the same, and were given the repair story.
I managed to get mine working after a series of button pushes, and I then removed the update, and used a safe version. The device is working fine again now.

I understand, and realise sometimes stuff needs updating, and the methods used are probably the most efficient but, why oh why, do these devices not have an easy factory reset button or fix?
I know some equipment does have this facility but, nowhere near all of it.

 

[threesixright]

Not sure if you need a CPU for that, buy it might be easier and more robust.

And no, you certainly do not need to have a CPU on board to differentiate between L, M and H class.

Yeah my bad, obviously I should have said its a MCU. Which is a totally different ball game.

Properly some PIC or Atmel. And these are pretty robust. Nevertheless, not too differentiate, but to measure the temperature and suction level. Although you can do that also analog, I guess  using a MCU is a bit easier. BT is just a gimmick, yet it comes in handy from time to time.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Yeah my bad, obviously I should have said its a MCU. Which is a totally different ball game.

Properly some PIC or Atmel. And these are pretty robust. Nevertheless, not too differentiate, but to measure the temperature and suction level. Although you can do that also analog, I guess  using a MCU is a bit easier. BT is just a gimmick, yet it comes in handy from time to time.

MCU? You're starting to lose me here. You mean Media Control Unit? Or the Marvel Cinematic Universe? Sorry, I had to google that. Whatever it is, if it requires software, it needs a CPU to function.

As for bluetooth, it is very convenient to have devices communicate with each other. I think lots of people like to activate their vacs with the bluetooth function. But then again, why on earth would you want to read the temperature and suction level on your phone? Now that's a useless gimmick. If those values are so critical (which they aren't) put an LCD display on your vac.

A basic rule for good design is to not make things overly complicated just because you can.