Help needed!!! Ctl midi won't start after update.

[AlexThePalex]

The computer control allows easy maintenance and servicing amongst other things.

It makes complex tasks easier. But it makes easy tasks more complex.

 

[threesixright]

Yeah my bad, obviously I should have said its a MCU. Which is a totally different ball game.

Properly some PIC or Atmel. And these are pretty robust. Nevertheless, not too differentiate, but to measure the temperature and suction level. Although you can do that also analog, I guess  using a MCU is a bit easier. BT is just a gimmick, yet it comes in handy from time to time.

MCU? You're starting to lose me here. You mean Media Control Unit? Or the Marvel Cinematic Universe? Sorry, I had to google that. Whatever it is, if it requires software, it needs a CPU to function.

As for bluetooth, it is very convenient to have devices communicate with each other. I think lots of people like to activate their vacs with the bluetooth function. But then again, why on earth would you want to read the temperature and suction level on your phone? Now that's a useless gimmick. If those values are so critical (which they aren't) put an LCD display on your vac.

A basic rule for good design is to not make things overly complicated just because you can.

Aha, LOL  [big grin] Sorry.

A MCU (microprocessor) is not a CPU. Doesn't run Linux or some heavy OS. It's much "lighter" and there for much more robust (doesn't need extra h/w to run). No need to start up or shutdown, almost instant and need very little power.

The basic functions for a this vacuum, are a good use-case for that. They also cost next to nothing, and can be made fool proof. I didn't open my CTL, but I'm sure one of those are in there, and same for the BT remote. Without a MCU we would not have smart  Li-Ion battery charging, they control the RPM of your sander, drill, saw, etc.

I wouldn't read too much in that the temp. and suction level could be read on your phone (I understand your point, and indeed its a bit of a gimmick). Point here is the vacuum does need to know, so it can switch itself off or warn the user when the bag needs to be replaced (needed for M class, etc.) and/or the machine does't overheat. The data is there and is easily transferred via BT.

I don't think they (MCU's) crash that often (which was your point).

However, also a MCU runs software. And software needs to be tested. Failing to do so, could give you the results as the OP ran into. To update the software, you can do that fool proof. FT might just failed to do so (guessing).  But, I'm ahead of the game,  I'm not 100% what was the cause, but there is a good change the update routine is not fool-proof, hence it got bricked. It's also possible the firmware was updated correctly, but contained a bug which rendered it useless. And then there is a change (very small) its unrelated, and something just got fried (unlucky)....

Without a MCU, not many of FT tools (or other brands for the matter) would hit the market. And they are in almost everything with an electric cord or battery.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Dude, now that I understand what you mean with an MCU, you are a bit off with your terminology. MCU = microcontroller unit, and is basically an entire computer condensed to a single chip. It can hold multiple CPU's, and memory and other components a computer needs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcontroller

CPU stands for Central Processor Unit, and it can indeed be extremely complex as the Pentium processors in our computers, but it can also be a very simply chip that maybe only knows how to calculate 1 + 1. As long as it's the central, most important component of the specific circuit.

Now what's inside the Midi Vac or a battery is indeed an MCU, and that MCU is a small computer that is a lot less complicated than the computer you find on your desktop, but it is still A LOT more complicated than all the other electronic parts that can make up a circuit.

Anything that runs software, like an MCU, requires a lot of complex components, which gives the designer a lot of flexibility, but it also sacrifices stability compared to hardwired components that only do a single function.

Firmware updates are notorious for their possibility to fail and render the entire device useless. I wonder if something as simple as a vac requires that level of complexity. It didn't in the past, and I don't really see what has changed.

 

[VirTERM]

You need a basic MCU to control BT radio and logic to pair and such. The firmware or mini OS with a set of instructions (logic) could be flashed to the MCU in the field, but this process could have bugs and in such case could render your system unusable.
Not enough testing in my opinion, but nobody is perfect.

 

[Gregor]

Pentium processors in our computers

It's nearly 2020, you should replace these broken CPUs [wink]

Now what's inside the Midi Vac or a battery is indeed an MCU, and that MCU is a small computer that is a lot less complicated than the computer you find on your desktop, but it is still A LOT more complicated than all the other electronic parts that can make up a circuit.

Depends. While the MCU itself is more complicated than the individual building blocks of a discreet analogue circuit it'll likely have a lower complexity than building a given functionality from discreet analogue components - while also avoiding the interesting problems that can turn designing analogue circuits into nightmares.

Anything that runs software, like an MCU, requires a lot of complex components, which gives the designer a lot of flexibility, but it also sacrifices stability compared to hardwired components that only do a single function.

That isn't the case for everything that isn't a trivial function, on both accounts (complexity and stability).

MCUs bring reduced cost (component count / board size / power requirement / development time) while (when done right) giving increased realiability and the ability to upgrade (even in the field) - that's why they're used.

Take a look at the PIC microcontrollers (just as one flavour), these basically need one resistor and one capacitor as the only external components (ok, plus a low voltage DC power supply) to run. And run these things do... I have one lying around where a high voltage spike (failed optocoupler) literally vaporized one pin of the DIL package  - but it's still perfectly functioning except for that one (no longer existing) I/O pin.

Them using harvard architecture (instead of the von Neumann architecture found in PC CPUs) makes them more resilient against coding mistakes and hardware failures as the program can't overwrite itself (at least not by accident).

Firmware updates are notorious for their possibility to fail and render the entire device useless.

Only in case the update process wasn't designed to be resilient against being interrupted in the first place.

 

[threesixright]

[member=53905]Gregor[/member]
Thank you, my exact thoughts 

[member=5277]Alex[/member]
Sorry for mixing gup the terms CPU and MCU. I though to generalise it since most will have heard of CPU. But the correct term to use in this case would have been MCU. It's not as complex as a CPU and pretty robust (implemented the right way). Just a MCU, a voltage regulator and some I2C or SPI device (like the BT module) and you can go to town. They also have some GPIO (general perpuse i/o connections) so hooking up a Thermistor (NTC) and something that can detect current draw (for starting the vacuum) is not that complicated.

Anyway, there are other forums to discuss this in length, don't think FOG is the right place.

Bottom line: IMHO there is nothing wrong with FT using a MCU + some BT in their tools

 

[Gregor]

Bottom line: IMHO there is nothing wrong with FT using a MCU + some BT in their tools

Except they have a firmware upgrade process that is able to fail.

But hopefully they'll be able to fix that (with a firmware upgrade, haha) after having examined the bricked device of the OP.

 

[threesixright]

Bottom line: IMHO there is nothing wrong with FT using a MCU + some BT in their tools

Except they have a firmware upgrade process that is able to fail.

But thats just wacky implementation by FT (or 3rd party)...