help: Preventing blotches with cherry and dark stain

[nclemmons]

Building a dresser made from cherry.  I need to stain it dark as that is what my daughter wants.  Have purchased a oil based gel stain but trying it on sample pieces I am getting blotchy finish.  Color is a medium brown walnut to mitigate the red of the cherry.

The drawer sides and bottom and interior frame are hard maple.  

I have cut dovetails for the drawers but have not glued them up as I will end up finishing the fronts before assembly and then do a final few coats of likely a wipe on poly.

Anyone offer tips to ensure an even stain coverage and consistent finish?   I've read about a wash coat of shellac but have not tried it.  I normally have done natural cherry with an oil or lacquer finish via HVLP but this is a larger piece that will be difficult to move to my garage for finish spraying.

Beyond the pre stain prep, open to advice on finish coat if something is easier or better than the wipe on poly?  I'd prefer not to spray if possible.

Thanks

Neil

 

[mouppe]

By coincidence I am currently making a cabinet from cherry. I have pre-finished the interior with three coats of garnet shellac, which has darkened the cherry nicely. I will post a picture when I get to the workshop in a couple of hours. The cherry will also darken naturally over time. I think this is your safest bet for avoiding blotching, and you can follow it up with a lacquer or poly if you want more protection on the oustide. I have not had much success with gel stains and cherry in the past, but the garnet shellac works a treat.

Richard.

 

[barnowl]

I'm also doing a cherry project.

I've heard nothing but good things about Charles Neil's Blotch Control, and bought some.

I'm planning on using it, then using a custom mixed dye, with Waterlox as a finish coat.

While I personally haven't used it yet, here is his video for your review:

Blotch Control: CN's Pre-Color Conditioner

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Richard nailed it.  Cherry and shellac are made for each other.  You can also apply a stain (glaze) after a couple of coats of shellac, then another wash coat of shellac and a topcoat for durability.

Unless I'm expecting the piece to take a beating, I usually just put shellac on cherry followed by a nice wax.

 

[mouppe]

Here are the Photos. Three quick coats of garnet shellac rubbed out the first two times with granat 400. Added a little baby oil to make the third coat easier to apply.

You can see the difference with the unfinished cherry exterior.

Jesse +1. Shellac and wax every time.

 

[CharlesWilson]

I think you can reduce the undesired dark areas by sanding to a higher grit (220 or higher) before staining. The thing that we call 'blotching' is actually due to curl in the wood, and is desirable by many woodworkers in maple, but not so much in cherry. I have recently come to appreciate the curl.

Attached is a recent piece made with curly maple and curly cherry. I used an oil/varnish mixture to finish it and bring out the curl.

 

[dltflt]

Charles Neil blotch control works great.  I used it soft maple and it turned out great

 

[nclemmons]

Thanks guys.

I ordered some of Charles' Pre Conditioner.  Looking forward to trying it out.

I assume I can go over it (2 coats) with the wipe on oil-based finish that I already have.

neil

 

[Kevin Stricker]

I generally use Old Masters Pre stain conditioner.  Just washing with mineral spirits right before applying the stain will work sometimes too.

I would watch out with a wipe on poly over a gel stain unless you do a Sealcoat first.  The poly(mineral spirits actually) tends to pull the stain back into solution and you will get wipe marks in the stain.  Not to mention the many coats required to get any film build.

Waterlox is great stuff, but I don't know if there will be any compatibility issues with the gel stain.  It sure is stinky too. I would rather tent off an area and spray for a day then apply Waterlox for a week and smell it for a month.

 

[dltflt]

I would talk to Charles about that.  He is a really nice guy.

 

[nclemmons]

I think you can reduce the undesired dark areas by sanding to a higher grit (220 or higher) before staining. The thing that we call 'blotching' is actually due to curl in the wood, and is desirable by many woodworkers in maple, but not so much in cherry. I have recently come to appreciate the curl.

Attached is a recent piece made with curly maple and curly cherry. I used an oil/varnish mixture to finish it and bring out the curl.

Charles - that is a really interesting piece.  What is it given it has drawers on two sides?

neil

 

[CharlesWilson]

This is a Shaker Sewing Desk that I made for my daughter last year. You can find the plans for it in a couple of Glen Huey's books. It was intended to be used by two Shaker sisters, with three drawers reserved for each. There is a maple pullout shelf under the main working surface.

Charles

 

[Scott B.]

Dye stain is the way to fly. This is a custom cherry new build I did a couple of years ago. Dye stain and satin omu. All sprayed.

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[Scott B.]

Here's tha bar on the opposite side of the room.

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[nclemmons]

Dye stain is the way to fly. This is a custom cherry new build I did a couple of years ago. Dye stain and satin omu. All sprayed.

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Really nice work.  What is 'satin emu' ??

 

[PaulMarcel]

Really nice work.  What is 'satin emu' ??

 

[peter halle]

satin omu = satin oil modified urethance.

satin emu= not so bright bird  [doh]

 

[Scott B.]

Peter is correct. Oil modified urethane..

 

[peter halle]

Scott,

Any idea of brand and line of stain?  Application method?

Peter

 

[Scott B.]

Yes. I prefer Lockwood waterborne dyes, and hvlp is the only method I would use for the stain. The omu, I only use Zar Ultramax. That can be applied hvlp or aaa as in the video in my link above.

The challenge to the situation of the original post in this thread is that there are basically two options. As others mentioned, using shellac and an "overstain" technique, which certainly eliminates the blotch factor, but is almost like a graining exercise in the wiping technique, and is VERY limited on how dark you can go. It can be done, but is tedious and time consuming. The dye is dry before you clsan the sprayer.

I do have some old process footage of the bar and entertainment unit in process. I did a bunch of prefinishing on that unit prior to installation. If anyone is interested in seeing such a dark stain on raw cherry, I think I could dig it up.