Help with sanders

[Miss Mary]

Sooooo a friend suggested I check into the Festool sanders since we may do a far share of sanding work.I have done a bit of searching on the site and read a couple of threads about sanders and small hands.For a woman I have what is classified as small hands which makes tool buying a pain.Watching the videos of the sanders in the calibre we would prefer they appear to be for hands much larger then mine.

My partner and I have a business which we create functional art and high end furnishings.I do the majority of sanding usually running two orbitals at the same time 8 to 10 hours a day at least 2 to 4 days a week .So I prefer a good fit for my hands or we creative modify. We work with rough woods some of the slabs coming right from the Alaskan Mill while other woods may be reclaimed barn woods that require lots of sanding with finishing grits to keep the aged patina but make for a smooth finish.Yet at other times I am sanding a full out tree  or cedar stump with all the curves and bumps. I also run different pads on the sanders based on the flatness of the woods umm or if I am abusing a sander using it for pre shaping for a carving, which yes does happen..

I have searched and read the forums small hands sanders replies which yes I get.Looking at the sanders the Rotex 150 or 125 would make the most sense for our business since we do run belt sanders and planers quite often as well.The handle and grips do not quite look as if I could run a sander in each hand like I am used to.But more in the lines of running a small grinder.Which I am concerned about cutting back my productivity having to go back to one handed sanding,LOL well unless I am running the belt sanders.

I am looking for suggestions, I run two sanders because of the sizes of some of our projects as well as the convenience of speed.I prefer to keep 4 sanders with 4 different grits ready to grab to be more efficient.That said I have read about a couple of the sanders being a tad slow on the forums here.At the moment my orbitals are  a Dewalt,2 Bosch, a Makita,Porter Cable and a Rigid. A couple of which I have taken my dremel and modified for my smaller hands to cut the fatigue levels.

My closest dealer looks to be at least a 2 hour drive so it is not exactly like I can bounce right in and check these out in person. Any sharing that any one may feel would be helpful to me is greatly appreciated.Thank You.

 

[Stephen B]

[size=14pt]
Firstly Mary, welcome to the FOG.

The smaller Festool sanders such as the ETS125  tend to be finish sanders.  Given the description of your work, I agree that a ROTEX sander would be the best fit. But could your hands cope?

It is not so much strength or hand size, rather fineness and attitude when using the ROs. No doubt you have read this in some of the posts you read. Therefore when sanding a slab or door layed horizontally there may be little issue here for you.

And given the amount of sanding you do, I do not think the strength of your hands will be an issue.

The real issue is can you fit your hands sufficiently around a RO125 or 150 when working in awkward positions or on a vertical surface?

In either situation, you will not be holding a RO in each hand.  [eek] [smile]  But these are very efficient sanders so would you need too?

I suggest that you take that two hour drive. [I sympathise as my dealer is nearly that far away too.] And unlike here, in the US you have the Festool 30 day return policy.

Should you go ahead, I suggest you get a Festool Vac. Your lungs and eyes will thank you, and the extraction speed/volume control will assist the sander to be complient with your directions.

 

[jmbfestool]

Have you checked out the

Mirka Deros or Mirka ceros

 

[Stephen B]

[size=14pt]

These are not available down here Mary, but looking at their website, jmnfestool's suggestion especially the Deros,  might be also worth consideration (or be better suited).

http://www.mirka.com

 

[jmbfestool]

No Idea what they are saying and its a very long video so gets very boring if you don't have a clue what they are saying. 

So to save boredom fast forward to 12minutes  there is a woman and they talk about the Rotex , Dewalt and Mirka  I think its the Mirka ceros.  Not Deros.

From the video I looks like they are talking about size and shape of the sanders but not sure maybe some one who understands what they are saying can translate.

Atleast from the video you can understand the size differences between dewalt Rotex and Mirka
The mirka is a one handed sander a rotex is not designed for one hand although u can use it with one hand.

 

[wow]

First, [welcome] to the FOG!

Second, may I make a different observation? I suspect that you are currently running two sanders because they aren't doing the job as they should. If you are working on a 3' x 3 panel that is more-or-less smooth when you start, and you use the RO150, you should only spend a few seconds on that panel for each grit. Basically two passes over the surface to ensure complete coverage. Maybe 20 seconds total? If you're spending more time than that, something is wrong with either your sander, your abrasive choice, your dust collection, etc.

In my opinion it would take you longer to set up a second sander than it would to simply use one Rotex properly.

There's a great video by Gary Katz that shows this. Here's a link to the thread and the video:

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-how-to/swirl-free-finishes-with-festool-sanders/

 

[waho6o9]

Welcome to the FOG Mary!

Uncle Bob has an Auxiliary Side Handle for the Rotex 150

and once the beast is tamed ( brushes set ) you'll appreciate

the effectiveness of the Rotex sander.

http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/auxiliary-side-handle/p/487865/
http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/6-dual-mode-sander-ro-150-feq-t-loc/p/571810/
[attachimg=1]

 

[semenza]

Hi Mary,

  Welcome to the forum!  [smile]

      Regardless of the one  hand / two hand situation.......  a Rotex seems like something you will like to have in your sander stable anyway considering the work you  do.

      Lots of good advice above. As others have said, you may very well find that the efficiency of a Rotex more than makes up for the two sander operation. Even if only for part of your sanding work.

      There is a side handle available for the RO150 and also a front mount handle.

        The RO90 has a smaller grip but also a small pad, but it might be a useful sander for your creative work.

Seth

 

[tbellemare]

The Rotex 150 comes with a side handle already.

Tom

 

[Miss Mary]

Thank you for the welcome and so much information as well.

  Guess I should clarify my two hand operation,LOL, On the big boys I run the two sanders because of the amount of space.Many of our  live edge slabs run 30 to 60 inches across and are usually 8 to 20 feet long.Running two hands lets me speed production.

  On the smaller pieces I keep my sanders loaded with different grits. So if I am doing a pass over I may have a 340 loaded in my lead  hand with the other hand running a 400 right behind it.Hence so many sanders I can keep one loaded with the next grit up and grab the next sander with a higher grit for the next pass.Cuts down dramatically on time and speeds board foot productivity for me..Especially on barn woods that we are trying to keep patina and a certain amount of texture but make baby bum smooth .Hence looking at finding sanders that are comfortable and can go some distance since if one comes in and works well,, no doubt another 3 or 4 will  be following....I do the same thing with dremel type tools with my carving heads so I am not slowed down by changing out all the time.

The videos were both helpful, even LOL with out understanding what the one was  saying.The other was great as well loved seeing the power available similar to a belt sander.We do some work that could use the smaller orbital feature where the belt sanders are to large and awkward to get into some of the stump curves and doing quick removal for some of my inset carvings.Right now I am useing the grinders for that application.
I do have pneumatic capabilities as well for the sanders but have not cared for the ones we have tried so far.LOL this is almost embarrassing to admit but I tend to crank my tunes in the headset and dance around while sanding.Umm I get tangled in the air-hoses occasionally.My extraction hoses are to stiff for me to entangle myself in them.

The side handle is of interest.We have modified a few side handles for the grinders to I can grip them.I will look into the Mirka's a bit more as well.

Untidy shop..LOL your right on about the attitude and strength in the hands.That is not the problem but having a good grip on the tools is. I can buy childrens gloves meant for a 10 or 12 year old.Most tool sales people always take me to the smaller products thinking I am just looking for something to be a handy girl with not realizing the needs for my work as a professional..The last one spent almost an hour trying to convince me I could not hang onto the larger belt sander and why in the world would a lady think she needs a 9 inch grinder as well..Argh Through the years I have learned to work smarter rather then harder handling the tools differently to avoid fatigue as well as doing modification so I can grip them for long periods of time.
Again Thank you for the time you are all taking to offer advice on my question it is very helpful all the way around.
Mary

 

[jmbfestool]

To me sounds like you do all the aggressiveness with the tools you already have ie belt sander and grinder

So you are looking at sanders with orbital to finish of through the grits.

Now the lovely thing about festool rotex you have best of both worlds you have the orbital and you have geared mode for more aggressive sanding.  So for the money festool is the best way to go because its a two in one sander and works extremely well in both modes.

I have the rotex 90 and 150 and I have been using them both today sanding some oaks doors and windows I have made.

Now you seem to like your two handed sanding method. 

Now like others have said the rotex is fast at sanding in gear mode to remove material quickly.  In orbital its no different than any other orbital sander in terms of speed.  However I often use my rotex 90 and 150 on handed

BUT it does get to you after a while, you can feel your hand getting tired gripping it tightly to keep it under control.  I would not like to be using two rotex 150's one in each hand.

Like I already mentioned you seem to have the rough sanding already sorted but you are looking at getting something more comfortable to use for the finishing.

Now if I am correct in what I have said above then I truly believe the Mirka is the way to go.  You will have no problem using one in each hand. 

They are not cheap!! 

 

[wow]

Your explanation of the rather large surfaces you are sanding (i'd love to see pictures of those!) makes more sense now as to why you'd use two sanders, one following the other with different grits. I don't know that I'd be coordinated enough to do that effectively, but kudos to you if you are!

[not worthy]

Keeping to the Festool product, I'd look at the ETS 150/3. Smooth as silk operation, and glides across the surface like a hockey puck over freshly groomed ice! I think you could use it all day with little to no fatigue. And I'll bet one CT could easily handle two ETS 150's - assuming you don't already have a dust collection system?

Also, I enjoyed your visual about dancing while doing the sanding. If you are doing as much sanding as you indicate, you'd almost HAVE to have some diversion to help break up the monotony and/or keep your sanity. Of course, pictures of THAT would be welcome, too...

[wink]

 

[Dan Clark]

Have you checked out the

Mirka Deros or Mirka ceros

+1 on the Ceros.

I have five Festool sanders including the RAS115, RO90, and RO150.  They are great sanders.  The RAS 115 or RO150 in Rotex mode can carve up wood very quickly.  The RO90 and RO150 are very flexible, with the RO90 for tight spots.  Festool sanders are the best in the world, with one exception...

While I don't discuss it much here on the Festool forum, the Ceros 150 is my go-to sander.  For a man, my hands are on the smallish side - average width, but short fingers.  It's light, fast, and it fits my hand perfectly.  The paddle switch is variable speed.  Once you get the hang of it, you can vary the speed on the fly.  Most importantly, it's a one-handed sander.   

Regards,

Dan.

p.s. It's not well known, but the backing pad hole pattern on the Ceros 150 lines up with the holes on the original Festool sandpaper.  I use Granat and Rubin on my Ceros with very good dust collection.  (Not quite as good as Festool sanders, but still very good.).  Note that the hole pattern on the aftermarket Ceros pads (like their soft pad) do NOT line up with Festool paper.

 

[Miss Mary]

Very nice more information that is helpful,

Looking to see where we may be able  to take a closer look at the Mirka sanders as well. We live in the boonies in Montana so the drive times are preplanned.Next trip to Missoula we will see if we can find the Festool dealer.The one haded Mirka does sound like it has some benefits for my sanding process.While I am loving the thought of another multi tool with the rotex being able to switch over to the more aggressive mode when working on some of the big pieces would have advantages as well..Food for thought ,, we like it..

Now that I don't have our construction crew touching my tools.I look at them as investments in my business okay and I also look at them as tools that hopefully will get me more productivity..

Sanding is a form of meditation for me,,LOL, it also allows me to totally block out everything and better yet everyone,, hahaha see if I can share a photo of one of the conference tables that is a 42 inch slab by 9 foot sitting on a pair of cedar stumps for the base..

 

[Dan Clark]

Mary,

That's a VERY nice table!  Lovely design and workmanship...  uhmmm... workwomanship.  [smile]

Regarding the Ceros, I bought mine at Woodcraft.  Note that, like Festool sanders,  these are professional-quality tools and priced to match - $495 for the 150mm unit.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Miss Mary]

Thanks Dan,
Very helpful information and appreciated!
I figured by the time I find a good fit and get the cash out for the new toys I am looking at about 3 or 4 grand into my sander station.So the Cero's will still be in my budget area. I am hoping the either of these will hold up to my work.We have had a few brands of sanders that are definitely hobby sanders who barely make the first 6 months to a year of my abuse.The ones still in the line up I tend to get about 2 to 3 years from them as long as they are not allowed on the construction sites.

 

[rljatl]

Seems like it would be very easy to make a side handle of any size and shape you require.

 

[jmbfestool]

I forgot about the new  festool ETS EC 150

looks very similar to the Mirka.

Its a little heavier than the Mirka though