Hidden fasteners for decking, which system do you like best?

Brice Burrell

Brice Burrell

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Joined
Mar 13, 2007
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7,385
Hidden fastener systems, which one/brand do you like best?  I redoing a deck and it's getting new decking (Trex) among other things.  I've never used a hidden fastener system before, any advice you guys have for me would be good, thanks.  
 
Can't comment on the hidden fasteners, other than say that it seems Tiger Claw seems to be one of the best.

Insofar as decking, have you looked at AZEK.  And if you did, why did you choose Trex instead?

I'm about to build my deck, and had long looked at and preferred Trex, but had heard/read many accolades for Azek being better than Trex over the years.  Based on it's attributes, I'm 98% certain now I'll be going with the Azek.  Reasons:  Less potential for mold issues; suntan lotion, or grease from BBQ doesn't affect it like TREX;  may be able to get away with their proprieter screws which leave minimal surface appearance rather than the more expensive hidden fastener;  no known element is able to penetrate and stain it; greater/nicer variety of lighter colours (darker colours can get quite hot in the sun); expands and contracts less than others;  not a "skinned" board (some prods are a thin layer over a substrate, which kinda scares me, and also looks funny if routed or if cut ends are showing;  now available locally at Lowes in Canada.

Here's the catch though.  I haven't seen the product physically yet nor has my wife who is it away still for the next week.  I just found out Lowe's now carries it, read up more info on the Azek website, and haven't even had the time to go to Lowes yet to look at samples.  Who knows, I might see it, and then do a subsequent Gilda Radner Rozanna Rozanna Dana post saying...... "Never Mind" [blink]  [big grin]
 
Brice,

If you can get the Trex pre-grooved that will speed things up. You will have to screw down the first/last board edge. Use Tiger Claws, they work well. Order enough non-grooved to picture frame the deck and for stairs. I do not use hidden fasteners on stairs.

If you cannot get pre-grooved, I like  the FastenMaster IQ system. FastenMaster also has the Cortex system, the screws go in with a special driver, then the hole gets plugged. They have colors for most decking.

I find the most important thing with any of these systems is to plane the joists, you will have to treat the planed areas. Planing makes for a much nicer install.

This one is done with the IQ system;
https://picasaweb.google.com/tbadernwi/TwoToneDeck03

This one is do with Eb-Ty you cut a biscuit slot for these;
https://picasaweb.google.com/tbadernwi/Lauricedeck

Tom
 
Kevin D.-

Don't waste your money on some plastic decking.

Put down some South American Hardwood and save yourself some money in the process.

No more plastic decks for me, hand the customer a piece of man made and a piece of SA HW, they drop the man made like it was a hot potato.
 
I met with the Azek rep a few weeks ago and they showed me a nail gun to use with their decking.  They are going to let me borrow it to try.  I will be using the cortex plugs and screws along with this nail gun for a hidden fastened deck.  I will post some pics and the name of the fastener is hidfast.
 
The hidfast is like a flooring stapler, sort of.  Shoots a staple looking thing in the edge of the board and leaves a stub that you drive the next board into and leaves the correct space.

They are very fast.
 
Kevin D. said:
....Insofar as decking, have you looked at AZEK.  And if you did, why did you choose Trex instead?.....
Click to expand...

This isn't my job, I'm just hired to help get the job done on time.  Trex is what the general sold the client but I don't that it's written in stone.  I thought the newer Trex decking is much improved over the older generation stuff.  I've got some samples of Azek decking and it seems like a nice product but what do I know.

tjbnwi said:
Brice,

If you can get the Trex pre-grooved that will speed things up. You will have to screw down the first/last board edge. Use Tiger Claws, they work well. Order enough non-grooved to picture frame the deck and for stairs. I do not use hidden fasteners on stairs......

Tom
Click to expand...

Thanks Tom, this is useful info. [thumbs up]

WarnerConstCo. said:
The hidfast is like a flooring stapler, sort of.  Shoots a staple looking thing in the edge of the board and leaves a stub that you drive the next board into and leaves the correct space.

They are very fast.
Click to expand...

I don't do many decks, there's just no much demand for decks in the older, more affluent neighborhoods I work in.  So I'm not going to invest in a special nailer.

So far it seems Tiger Claw is the leading contender with Cortex screws to finish off the edges.  I'm open to any other options....
 
Chris Rosenberger said:
Brice,

I am currently helping my daughter & son in law install decking on their deck in the evenings. They got a hidden system at Menards,
It is stainless steel rails that screw to the joists & then the decking. The decking is composite.  I was not impressed with the rails when I first saw them.
They already had the rails installed when arrived. It did not look to me like the decking would pull down tight, but it seems to work very well & it installs quicker than other hidden systems I have seen.

Deckmount
Click to expand...

Chris,

I can see how that would allow expansion and contraction in the lengths of the deck boards which would work for composites, but with natural wood, it doesn't seem like there's a way for the deck boards to move in width and will just split at the screw holes.
 
Many of today's deck board manufacturers are using better products that are made from a composite of recycled plastics and maple flour.  Some look better than others.  Some have two different face types so you have a choice of which side shows.  They have different edge treatments.  As previously mentioned, when cut, not all have the color running all the way through their thickness.  They all have varied warranties and recommendations for installation, so always best to check the company's website to follow their procedures to prevent any finger pointing back at you.
 
Is this a Festool Forum?  The Domino system of course  ;) ;)
(I've never tried it - tried to sell it to a client but the cost of the fixings is pretty steep)

Richard
 
I started using the Menards rails years ago when the hidden fastener craze got going. I love those rails. Fast, easy, relatively cheap. The long length allows for consistency. I can have a grunt screwing the rails onto the joists while I do other stuff. I've never had a client call me back with decking issues because of the rails. I've used these rails with treated and various composites. The only wood they haven't worked out well with is Cedar. The shorter screws have popped out of the Cedar.
I recently built a Cedar deck and used the Tiger Claws. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone doing this for a living. You can't make money on a job using these things unless the client is paying big bucks. Slow, time consuming system; brackets are good, screws were very poor quality; very costly for what you get. The poor quality screws for the price really pissed me off. It's a good thing I had better quality screws on hand.  I wouldn't use this system again without getting the boards pre-grooved. Some brackets go in well, other areas you have to beat it hard to get the boards to close up. Working around posts or other details in a real PIA.
I realize a lot of guys like these but I'm not one of them. Nice concept but not a good alternative for the real world. Seems like more of a gimmick to sell to rich people.
 
THe whole point of the Tiger Claws is to be used with a grooved board, most of them anyways.

Set your first board, install the clips and use a bow wrench or hard wood wrench and press the next board into the clips.

I do hate the square drive screws though.

I can install 150-200 sq/ft a day with the TC-G's.
 
I've never had an issue with the Tiger Claws, I use the screws that come with them, no issue there either.

If you cannot get pre-grooved, and what I do for cedar is a slot cutting bit in a router. This is messy and a lot messier with composite, but it saves a ton of time.

The Festool deck system has been mentioned, I have used it on a cedar deck. I like the start/stop clips. The system is slow to use.

Tom
 
Hidden fastener system?? It's decking!!!! Or is it decking for a king? What's wrong with properly inserted screws for heavens sake?
 
The Woodentop said:
Hidden fastener system?? It's decking!!!! Or is it decking for a king? What's wrong with properly inserted screws for heavens sake?
Click to expand...

Don't you know how this works yet?  If it's traditionally simple, make it complex/fancy; If it's normally difficult, find a way to simplify it.  Isn't that what woodworking and home improvement is all about? [blink]
 
LOL, great explanation!

Make something difficult when it should be simple.

Make something idiot proof when it's easily mastered by children.

Maybe time to buy an Apple (bloatware) product........they have more cash in the bank than the US government it is said.......must be easy to hoodwink people into parting with their money. Takes all sorts!!
 
The Woodentop said:
Hidden fastener system?? It's decking!!!! Or is it decking for a king? What's wrong with properly inserted screws for heavens sake?
Click to expand...

Very odd!    umm  Many reasons if you research it!  

One if your doing a Cedar or nicer timber than jst treated soft wood  crap then  your not going to bang screws through the top as many including me want to make the decking look at its best and hidden fixes makes a MASSIVE difference to the appearance of the decking.

Which is my mean reason for doing hidden fasteners!

Other reasons to use hiden fasteners are!

1. Increase life span of timber!  Reason as the screw banged in from the top  allows water to penetrate into the wood and sit in the screw hole and puddle.

2. It can cause wood to split  especially on the ends!   Hidden fasters you will never have this problem

3. Some not all hidden fasters can be just as quick to use than actually screwing two screws through the top unless you use some kind of auto feed deck gun.   This is because like cedar on the ends you would have to pilot hole if screwing from above slowing you down  and fasters like Tiger claw which require you just to tap the pins into the decking and then 1 screw and tape the next board into it.

JMB
 
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