Homemade Systainer and Basis System

Time to catch up on some overdue questions:

Matthew, thanks for the new location, name is fine with me. (Although I call the things "ToolCrates" when I sell them, which is going nicely by the way), but not pushing sales yet since it's still evolving.

Mike: had asked about use of the dovetail jig on site - Frankly no. I had been trying to get to the stage where I could build someone's kitchen on site, since I had been doing all my drawers with dovetails (which is also a very efficient way to make them BTW, it's pretty quick, but does leave a lot of cleanup (no Festool router yet, obviously), had planned on dragging the dovetail jig along for that purpose, but frankly the thing is heavy and of minimal use, also once I started experimenting with strong but quick drawer box joints for the ToolCrates themselves, I have been making them with a 1/2" dado (boxes are 1/2" ply - I mean 12mm ply) one dado at the rear end of sides, two in the front panel (1/2" in from ends), which is 1" longer than the drawer box width, making a front panel which covers the slides and 1/2" clearance at the sides of the box.

Eli: had asked me about fence usage - Yes, I use a fence for both the router and TS55, since I only planned on needing minimal capacity (8" would be plenty for my on site requirements) I built the mount for the fence like a tiny INCRA LS fence. (I'll post pictures soon)

Brandon: had asked about the drawer construction - no pictures handy, but I'll try another description for the time being...

Since I use 1" top and bottom frame on the opening of the drawer units, An 8" box takes a 6" drawer, Ill list pieces for that drawer (all dimension remain the same execpt width of the pieces cut for all drawers)

Actual height of 6" drawer is 5 3/4" since I allow 1/8" top and bottom clearance

2 Sides 5 3/4" x  22 1/4"
1 rear end 5 3/4" x 14"
1 front panel 5 3/4" x 15 1/2"

Each side gets a 1/2" dado 1/2" in from one end
The front panel gets a 1/2" dado 1/2" in from each end
All pieces get a 1/4" dado 3/8" up from bottom edge
(All dados are 1/4" deep)
Bottom (1/4" ply) is 14 x 21 1/2

Put glue into all the dados in all pieces (well, maybe dry fit first)
Now place the front panel flat on a workbench, insert one side (dadod end at rear of the box), insert the base panel into the corner formed.
Place the rear panel (checking the 1/4 dado goes over the back panel) into the dadod side and lay flat onto the base panel (it will sit there, no clamps)
Then place the second side into it's dado in the front panel, and gently fold up into the rear panel already in place - one drawer box done!

If your dados are nicely fitted, the box will sit intact with no clamps, slide it back to dry and start the next one (quickest drawers I ever made)

Hope this gives enough detail for you guys to be able to duplicate the drawer boxes, I havent made anyones kitchen drawers this way, but since I wanted the light 1/2" ply front (without an extra front panel) this makes a pretty elegant workbox drawer.

I use 22" KV full extension slides (the heavy, stainless ones), I always mount the outers (on a screw/center line 1 1/8" up from the bottom panel dado on the sides before I assemble, then mount the inners on the drawer box on a screw/center line 1" up from bottom of side. (gives me 1/8" clearance under drawer

 
Steve,

I'm not sure if you been to the JLC Online forums, but they are a series of forums oriented to professional tradesmen.  I thought they might be interested in your ideas, so I posted a thread in the Finish Carpentry forum pointing back to this thread:http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41660. 

You may want to check out the JLC Online Finish Carpentry forum in general.  Besides having a lot of good information over there, I think they are also the largest single concentration of Festool users outside of FOG.  Here's the link to the forum:http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7. 

Also, check out Gary Katz's website:http://www.garymkatz.com.  He's the Finish Carpentry forum moderator and a great source of Finish Carpentry information and training.  I have all four of his DVDs and they are excellent.

Regards,

Dan.
 
Hi all.

I am new here, i signed up some time ago but i am posting for the first time, I am finish carpenter from the los angeles area and long time lurker of both JLC and FOG forums. I must congratulate Mr Steve Jones for coming up with such an inventive solution to his challenges in regards to the small vehicle issue and for sharing it with the rest of us.
 
Steve,

What price are you selling the tool crates?  If you don't mind my asking.  I may just elect to have you make them, but I have to look at the measurements and the tools I carry.

 
kgphoto said:
Steve,

What price are you selling the tool crates?  If you don't mind my asking.  I may just elect to have you make them, but I have to look at the measurements and the tools I carry.
Click to expand...

kg...you just need a 5 gal bucket for the tools you carry, and a case for your camera!!!!! lol  yes I am over here also bugging and telling jokes
 
Great concept, very functional and utilitarian.

For those thinking Light weight my first thought is 3/8" MDO (double sided) rare but still available in some locations. And for the top surface materials - again 1/2" or 3/4" MDO for the super smooth surface.

Nice job and thanks for sharing !
 
Hey Patrick, tell me more about the MDO you get...  I've attempted to locate MDO in my area and have only found one store that carries a product with that name/description -- but apparently MDO is a little too general, as the material they had was something different.  ???
 
Dan,

First and foremost, I'd like to thank you for your obviously good intentions in putting links to this discussion (about my ToolCrate design) onto the Forum you mentioned.

I have nothing but admiration for your motives, you were genuinely trying to help pass around some alternative ideas to a common problem we all live with (which was my own reason for introducing my ideas here in the first place)

However, having read the reactions on that site, (I'll save some keystrokes for interested parties and drop in some quotes)

"wheels are too small for the weight"
"all the drawers and custom containers make them too heavy to be practical."
"only practical if you are working on 6 month + jobs. "
"drawers are too heavy. "
"I can't see carrying that weight anywhere. "
"the wheels they have there are the imitation industrial wheels. AKA junk."
"All these storage/home made rolling work cabinets are nice but are totally impractical for real world needs."
"You wouldn?t get ten feet with those rolling cabinets in some places I work."

And my own personal favorite....

"I have every category of equipment in heavy duty nylon ballistic bags and also milk crates."

I just don't believe I'm in the same league as these gentlemen.

I will continue to add descriptions and pictures of the tools and enhancements I have found that work for me to this forum in an attempt to share experience and ideas with woodworkers whose opinions and feedback I respect.

Oh, and to answer some of those comments (for those of you interested)

Heavy Duty Double Locking Casters
    * Load rating for each caster is 300 lbs.
    * Easy rolling, non-marring, polyurethane tires will not ?flat spot? during long periods of remaining stationary.
    * Swivel and wheel ride on ball bearings for smooth rolling and turning.
  (Above copied from the Woodcraft site, where I purchase the casters)

Too Heavy to be practical:
In two cabinets there are 6 cases (ToolCrates) any one of which is easy to lift into my Pontiac Vibe (Which is really a Toyota Matrix) which carries the MFT (The big one) upside down with the ToolCrates stacked between the folded legs

6 month plus jobs:
My installations unsually are done in a day, (probably because I have everything I could ever possibly need with me.)

As an individual (like most here) I'm simply trying to offer some assistance to others, (I'm not trying to sell anything, the reason I took so long answering one question about what price I sell these for is that I was awaiting a reply from Matthew for his advice before I would respond to the question.

On his advice, I listed the standard price I sell the package for, I did not respond directly to kgphoto, I did not bug him or anyone else trying to "make a sale" he may buy some part of the system or make something himself using some of my ideas, I'll be delighted either way.

All the people who have purchased the ToolCrates have given me nothing but excellent reviews, (as compared to the comments from that other forum who, sight unseen failed to give one single solitary positive comment, nothing but misguided critisism).

There are no trade secrets kept back for paying customers, nothing would give me more pleasure than for some members here to use some or all of my ideas to make their own lives a little easier or possibly more fun.  I'm also very interested in the constructive suggestions offered here by the members.

Dan, again, please understand I have nothing but respect for you and your intentions. You, like me were simply trying to help others. I would like to formally thank you for those efforts. However the gentlemen prefer milk crates to organise their sledgehammers and chain saws

My experience with the forum in question has not been good, THIS forum seems to be populated by experienced, open minded enthusiasts (whether "professional" or not), I think I prefer the atmosphere here.

Steve

 
Steve,

First, my apologies.  I should have asked first. 

Frankly, I was more than a little annoyed and bothered by the response.  I think part of the issue is the NIH (not invented here) syndrome and part is an assumption by some people on JLC that anyone who posts here on FOG is a dilettante amateur who doesn't use his tool to make a living.  There are a lot of pros who post on this forum, and I believe that you can learn a lot from virtually everyone - pro or amateur.   

I think your boxes show some real creativity and can be useful for anyone that works on-site.    In any case, the ideas behind your boxes can be extended to a lot of other solutions.  For example, some people on JLC have complained about Systainers being sensitive to cold and can break if dropped.  Your wooden systainers would not have the problem.  And, if some people are in an environment where smaller wheels are a problem, well hmmm... I wonder how difficult it would be add bigger wheels?  Heck, I bet even I could handle that.  ;D

Regarding KGPhoto's response, I took it as genuine interest in your boxes.  I took his interest as a compliment from another pro.

Since this new thread is based on your response to the original "Toolbox" thread, I see absolutely nothing wrong with your responses.  And I definitely do NOT see you trying to hype your boxes to make a sale.  The exact opposite is true.

Just an FYI, over the last six months there have been many post on JLC by many people who believe a well-organized tradesman is the mark of a professional who is proud of his work - the mark of a craftsman.  They complain bitterly about young squirts who show up on site with a bucket and some cheesy tools trying to pass themselves off as professionals. 

Whether your boxes will meet every person's need is not the question.  But they do meet your needs.  IMO, that's what is important.  Your efforts to create compact, effective storage that converts to an efficient portable workshop at the work site is the mark of a professional craftsman.  Keep up the great work!

Regards,

Dan.

p.s., I probably won't copy your designs.  Or at least not exactly.  I'll do exactly what most other people do - pick and choose the things that work for me and create my own solution.  Some people are creative like that.  Some are not. I try to ignore the second kind.  8)

p.p.s., I think one of the biggest issues is that some people missed the fact that systainers (any variety) are individual boxes that can be snapped together. 
 
30 years ago we used milk crates and it was a real PIA then. And it still is. I can still remember when the plug end of the cord gets hung up through the bottom or sides  :'(  Nylon bucket bags were / are a step up. But it is still Bags and boxes with stuff piled on.

I like your set up, It makes sense, it's on wheels, uniform sizes, interchangeable, can be stacked etc etc. Not to mention the tool mount table top on the same unit. It rocks big time for on site work. 
  Some will spend untold wasted time digging and rummaging through the milk crate for that part or tool for years before they would spend a few bucks and a day's worth of labor to make units like these.  Time is money  ???  But I got a feeling that the guy working out of the milk crate would not give them back once used for a job or two.

About the weight - theres not much getting around that unless you own a plastic injection mold factory. But at least you can tweek the plywood thickness to some extent.

Corwin - I thought of MDO,  medium density overlay as a means of reducing the weight by using a thinner ply like 3/8". But it is not any lighter in weight than other plys. It's the Light brown paper coated ply. Comes one sided or two sided.
MDO comes to mind because it is a exterior glue ply with a paper coating. Used mainly for signs and exterior applications. It is very tough stuff, don't let the "paper" coating fool ya.
  It's the durability and stability of the MDO, like Baltic Birch with a coating and ext glue. It would be great for the inverted tool mount surface because of it's smooth surface. Few or no voids. We can get 1/2" and 3/4" two sided MDO here at our local Menards, They also have Baltic Birch. Wow we got it good - Baltic Birch and MDO at Menard's  :D.  Menards is like Home Depot and Lowes.
But 3/8" two sided is a special order through local lumber yards.
  It's just one more option if going with thinner stock for the box sides. 1/4" Baltic Birch even ?

 
Thanks Patrick, 

Ned also sent me a PM on my question.  After reading an article some time ago about various sheet goods, I thought that MDO was a combination of plywood and MDF.  Guess I'll have to dig up that magazine.  Anyway, the stuff I did find was as you describe -- with a paper covering/coating on either face -- so I take another look.

Thanks again,
Corwin
 
Dan,

no need for apologies, I was a tad annoyed myself, but nothing directed at you (in fact I thought I did rather well by being gentle and avoiding the phrase "casting pearls before swine"!).

And kg's response, I interpreted as complimentary too.

I just followed your link and felt I had walked into a room where a bunch of old ladies was bitching and badmouthing the neighbors, and I WAS THE NEIGHBOR! so I cowardly left the room without introducing myself.

I considered for a while entering that discussion and trying to explain about the points they'd missed, but on reflection decided to let it go, they'd talked themselves into the position of the crowd near the end of the Frankenstein movie, the whole village had gathered their pitchforks....

Nothing I said was intended as a critisism of that forum, I will continue to watch the discusssions there and harvest a few plums myself.

As regards copying the designs, I've deliberately tried to present the concept in a series of descriptions of individual features rather then simply uploading instructions how to build an exact copy,  the intention being to not only enable but actually encourage folks to come up with their own variations or simply grab bits they like to incorporate into something entirely different.

The wheel size I decided on gives me more storage than trying to fit larger wheels, one way or another larger wheels will take up space either from the storage area inside the boxes or outside to make stacking them together or loading them more difficult. like all designs it represents a compromise. (because ideally I need a dually pickup loaded with toolboxes with four wheel drive that fits in my glovebox). but I use the best wheels I can find, and decided that moving a cord or air hose occaisionally (ie lifting it up to roll the cart under) is part of the cost of having the compact workshop.

 
Steve,
  You're lucky it didn't get posted on the Fine Home Building Forum ;D. They are rougher than JLC. "Chainsaws and milkcrates" I love it.
  In defence I have picked up a lot of good ideas at JLC and Breaktime but I mostly lurk 8)
Mike

PS Thanks again for sharing.
 
Mike,

thanks for the link, I can see both the board material and the hardrware making it's way into future incarnations of the ToolCrates, neat stuff!

Steve
 
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