How can I make this cut?

[jonny round boy]

It's so that the posts can be screwed to the edge of the deck, at the correct distance so that the balustrades can also be fixed direct to the edge. Like this:

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That way there's no need for a bottom rail. So, the cut does need to be fairly accurate. They might need packing/shimming slightly to get them properly plumb anyway, but I'd like to minimise the need for that as much as possible.

I think I'm going to go with the Kapex, cutting channels 5-10mm apart & then knocking out/cleaning up with a hammer & chisel.

Thanks for all the ideas!

 

[nickao]

Yeah those railings are what we call 5 year, they may last more but they will lose the tightness after 3 and at 5 I can easily break them off with my hands.

But if its what was paid for you have to do it. That type of railing is a really fast build though and the carpenters loved it.

With that type of rail connection the the deck it is always better to have the cap go over the 4" x 4" for strength, it may not look as nice. With the 2 x 2 pickets on the bottom like that and the top cap meeting into the 4" x 4" that is about the weakliest railing design there is.

No disrespect, you have to build what is contracted.

 

[jmbfestool]

I can say after going to see decks after 5 years and more(we had a lifetime warranty) that notching a railing post is NOT the way to go.

The posts where we blocked them into the framing below(no notch) and bolted through the framing ALWAYS held up.

At least 20% of the notched post had stress fractures at the notch point and the posts would get loose and look like crap. So we stopped doing the notched posts and just charged more, it became a selling point. It takes more time, but is so much better. It's stronger and better looking.

If I tossed my son(who needs a good tossing now and again) through the rail post a notched one would snap off. If it were bolted below into the framing with no notch he would break bones, the post is not moving.

So if that is the application maybe he should reconsider the design.

I notch but only a little just like jonny round boy is doing I have seen alot notched halfway which definitely weakens the post and I dont do that. I always use bolts with decking with hand rails cus I hate hand rails which when you lean on them they move I often trap the hand rail by having like timper either side( having two joist close together and having the post in between and bolt through the lot. Even notch the side of both joist slightly so it its holding it from all directions.  I hope I made sense

 

[nickao]

It may help, but as soon as you notch the 4" x4" strength is immediately reduced to the non notched measurement strength. The notch is probably about 1.5 inches, 1" if you are brave but that still weakens the post. Once they shrink and twist and go through a few weather cycles they are getting loose no matter what. I always thought it was the shrinkage that created the stress cracks at the point of the notch and then they just grew. I guess the botch is the weak point as the wood swells and shrinks through the seasons.

Still, when you finish it will look nice and meet code and is far less labor.

 

[nickao]

See I like the look of the posts growing out the the deck. Different strokes and all that. 

 

[ccmviking]

Perfect appliacation for a Bandsaw. [wink]

  Have you seen those jigs, etc. that people use to make crown moulding on a Table Saw?  I do that same type of cut hogging out and back cutting with the Kapex.  You can set a stop on whatever side you are most comfortable working from and make your 240mm cut at 90  degree's and at the proper depth to establish that.  Then bring the depth up and slide your piece back and forth allowing the teeth to cut/carve away the waste.  I've never had and problem using this method and I back cut like this a lot.  Just don't try and take too much at once. 

I need to make identical cuts in 20-odd decking rail posts. The posts are 75x75mm (3"x3"), and I need to make a cut 21-22mm deep, 240mm along the length:

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I could cut them with the Kapex, using the depth-limiting function. If it was a one-off I would, but for the 20-something I need to do it would take an age.

I could rout them, but again time is the issue.

Ideally I could do them quickly & simply on a well-set up bandsaw, but I don't have one. I can't use my jigsaw as it's just not good enough.

Is there a way of making this cut another way that I've missed? Apart from buying more tools, obviously! [tongue]

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Even though a router seems like it would be more time consuming, it will be your fastest approach (given the tools at your disposal) as long as you gang them up and route them in groups.

Start out with stock that is slightly longer than the final need, and lay them down together, maybe do 10 at a time. Using a guide rail or even just a straight edge, plough out material across all 10 pieces, shift the setup down and repeat until the notch is cleared.

After they have been routed, then cut the bottoms to length, using the shoulder of the notch as a reference point. Then cut the tops to final length. This way you don't need to be as fussy with the position of the shoulders when routing.

 

[bonesbr549]

I need to make identical cuts in 20-odd decking rail posts. The posts are 75x75mm (3"x3"), and I need to make a cut 21-22mm deep, 240mm along the length:

[attachthumb=1]

I could cut them with the Kapex, using the depth-limiting function. If it was a one-off I would, but for the 20-something I need to do it would take an age.

I could rout them, but again time is the issue.

Ideally I could do them quickly & simply on a well-set up bandsaw, but I don't have one. I can't use my jigsaw as it's just not good enough.

Is there a way of making this cut another way that I've missed? Apart from buying more tools, obviously! [tongue]

I've done a lot of decks over the years (mine and others) and this is an easy cut.  Now to be truthful the old fashoned RAS is the easiest to do but an old fashioned circular saw and speed square.  Mark your line and make that first cut with the depth set using a speed square as your guide.  Make multiple kerf cuts skipping a blade width of wood with each pass and continue on down the lenght till you reach the end.  A good onl 2" flat chisel will flatten it up.  You could fix jigs and such but it's just as quick.  After you do one or two you will be an expert.  Ocasionally stone and strop your chisel or get a few stanley disposables and move on.  I wish i had a nickle for every one I cut like that.  All stood the test of time.  I would generally countersink and attach with lags. 

 

[nickao]

Plus the chisel work with a sharp chisel is fun. 

 

[jmbfestool]

Alot of times I dont even use a chisel depends how the wood is.  I often just do alot of cuts and just tap them all of with a hammer and then just use the Kapex (or any other chop saw)  and plunge it down and keep it down at the required depth and just move the wood back and forth and slide the kapex back and forth aswell and you will have a flat bed all the way across.

 

[nickao]

I have done that in a pinch as well, but it probably is not the safest way. 

 

[jmbfestool]

I have done that in a pinch as well, but it probably is not the safest way. 

I often do it with door frames when they need the housing joint moving across for a smaller door.  Alot quicker and it a flat finish.  I had to do 9 frames cus the idiot at tippers got the wrong frames out but also my fault aswell because I didnt check them.

 

[ccmviking]

Great Idea Rick!   

Even though a router seems like it would be more time consuming, it will be your fastest approach (given the tools at your disposal) as long as you gang them up and route them in groups.

Start out with stock that is slightly longer than the final need, and lay them down together, maybe do 10 at a time. Using a guide rail or even just a straight edge, plough out material across all 10 pieces, shift the setup down and repeat until the notch is cleared.

After they have been routed, then cut the bottoms to length, using the shoulder of the notch as a reference point. Then cut the tops to final length. This way you don't need to be as fussy with the position of the shoulders when routing.

 

[Wonderwino]

Why do you want to preserve all those little blocks of wood?  I would go wit Rick' method above.  I just did a project routing paralell dados and used the guide stop with an OF1010.  I ganged them up and did the whole batch in one pass for each dado, being very careful to square the rail to the work.

 

[jonny round boy]

Why do you want to preserve all those little blocks of wood?  I would go wit Rick' method above.  I just did a project routing paralell dados and used the guide stop with an OF1010.  I ganged them up and did the whole batch in one pass for each dado, being very careful to square the rail to the work.

I don't want to keep the blocks, I just don't want to deal with that amount of dust. Those little blocks would probably fill 2 bags in my CT Mini. Much easier to pick the blocks up & throw them in the scrap pile. That's all.

Anyway, I've decided to go with the Kapex with the depth stop.

 

[jmbfestool]

Why do you want to preserve all those little blocks of wood?  I would go wit Rick' method above.  I just did a project routing paralell dados and used the guide stop with an OF1010.  I ganged them up and did the whole batch in one pass for each dado, being very careful to square the rail to the work.

I don't want to keep the blocks, I just don't want to deal with that amount of dust. Those little blocks would probably fill 2 bags in my CT Mini. Much easier to pick the blocks up & throw them in the scrap pile. That's all.

Anyway, I've decided to go with the Kapex with the depth stop.

Good Idea mate its the best way to go its how I would do it!  Them workshop lads have the tendency to use work shop methods on site jobs which isn't ALWAYS very practical nor quicker on site. They often have routers on the brain properly notch floor joists and studding with routers. JOKING

I hardly use a router more chisels and chop saws and circular saws jigsaws.

 

[CNC Paul]

Hey Jonny,

How about this  際削りトリマー改造　Wood trimmer for verge cut.

 

[jmbfestool]

Nice video but I dont see how it helps for Jonnys project.  lol

1. Its a trimmer so using one of them would takes ages to remove the wood he need to remove  [tongue]lol

2. He wants is sqaure flat notch with the timber but I agree if he wanted angled maybe a router could be a quicker solutions but not with a flat notch because other methods are quicker.

3. You could tell in size comparison it was taking him a while because he sped up the video  so a large router and large timber would take just as long in theory.

lol  [poke]

JMB

 

[jmbfestool]

I remembered the thing I thought was RUBBISH on the Kapex  and its the Depth stop   because the depth stop isnt high enough I should of remembered because the first day I got it it tryd it out and soon realised it wouldnt do for me.   I was going to try out the notch and see how quick I could do it in  but soon realised I couldnt get the 20mm depth on a 70mm timber because its about 25 or more so that means then your using 75 mm so your depth would be more.  My makita has a large depth stop range but the kapex is one of the worst Iv used with a very small depth range.

So basically you cant use the Kapex and a circular saw would be the alternative.  OR modify the kapex I places a bit if timber temporarily which increase the hight but I thought of using a large threaded bar but you cant use it all the timebecause it gets in the way of the kapex

JMB

 

[Deansocial]

circular saw and a square is best option if you ask me. or line them up and cut the critical shoulder cut with plunge and then rest with norm circ.